Is my setup odd?

[starwars14]

I have been on MN for a while and noticed recently threads about finances in relationships and it has dawned upon me how strange my situation is and I wanted to get a general consensus on what I should do from here.

I have been with my DH for the last 10 years and married for the last 4 years. We have a 3 year old DD. I have always worked full time and my DH has always been self employed. I have realised that I have no idea what he earns whereas he knows what I earn as it is very simple.

My dilemma is that now with the cost of living going up, I want to be clear on what our incomings and outgoings are so I can plan for our future and more importantly our DDs future. He always says not to worry, we have lots of money/savings but I have asked him what he actually earns. He has started making excuses and keeps saying he has no idea what he earns... Is this normal for someone self employed? He has an accountant so surely someone must know what he earns. When I pushed him over the weekend, he asked why I really needed to know and if I planned on divorcing him 😯

I am not really sure what to make of the situation. I feel like he is hiding something and cannot understand why he wont share this info with me. Another reason I am keen to understand is because he wants us to have one more child and I am worried about being pressured to going back to work ASAP like last time. I only got 8 weeks off on maternity leave before I had to go back to work due to finances.

Yes and no. One week (or month) to the next might be quite different depending on his business. I'm self employed and a slow month I might invoice literally zero, but the next could be 10k or 20k.

But over the course of a year he will know exactly what he earns, as it'll all be there on his tax return.

Whether he is contributing fairly depends how much the mortgage is though and cars/holidays are one off costs, not on-going. When I was paying nursery fees, they were more than my mortgage.
The thing is - whilst I would not suggest an ultimatum - you are more likely to divorce him if he doesn’t treat you as an equal partner than if he does. You and he need to both know your financial position for any forward planning. Do you get child benefit? Then you at least know if he earns over or below the threshold for that. What about childcare vouchers (if they are still a thing)? Surely there are instances where you need to know your joint household income.

I have been self employed.
how much I have been earning has varied a lot from one month to the next.
ive always had an idea about how much I’ve earn each month but my accounts were easy (eg no stock, no wait to have an invoice paid etc….)

On paper, yiu are supposed to know exactly what goes in and out and basically do your accounts every month. I’ve never done that and I don’t know a lot if people who do tbh (even though it IS bad practice btw - not disputing that)

Hi OP,

So his hourly rate should be between £50 and £100. I run my own consultancy and charge around that amount. Last year my consultancy turned over £330k - I take c6 weeks holiday and don't work full time every week (I lecture at uni one day a week for c12 weeks a year and Im an NED at a University, so take around 4 -6 days off per annum for that) but I do work full time the rest of the year.

If he's turning over less than my company, your hubby may be on a VAT scheme so you can't claim VAT on purchases unless you spend over the threshold and pay 17% of VAT you charge to government. The 3% difference you keep.

Corp tax on profits is 19% going up to 25% in April.

Standard rates of tax and NI are paid on the salary declared, the rest is taken as dividends of which only £2,
500 is tax free.

You earn more being an employee on the day rate you charge versus being self employed now - government trying to sqeeze the self employed so we dont become rich! - but self-employment still offers greater freedom in terms of the number of days and when you choose to work.

I hope this helps you carry out a few estimations of income to talk to him about.

BTW, rushing you back to work after 8wks of maternity leave is illegal. Your employer could get into deep trouble doing that, it's sexual discrimination. But ignoring that, your DH needed you back at work because he got little money from government as a self employed person/small business. This doesn't mean he doesn't or wouldn't earn enough for you to have a good length of mat leave for no 2, but I would make sure he shows you how he's saving for that.

Good luck, OP. I couldn't tell anyone how much I earn until my accounts are done tbh. I just know what I turnover.

The thing that gets me is that he is a self employed architect and I know he could earn a good wage going back into full time employment and it would create stability for us

I think going back to a salaried role, you would probably get less in terms of actual income, but it would more predictable month on month and give you the stability you asked for

So it may be difficult for him to say what he's earned in say this month as his accountant may track it - but he absolutely must know last year's position at the end of the year for tax and the company balance sheet. I'd start from there so when he tells you he doesn't know what he earns ask to see the company accounts for last year - or just get them on line (small fee) if he's a limited company. Bear in mind he may also do cash jobs which he hasn't declared so his earnings could be higher.

He has an accountant so he must know how much he is making. Sounds like he just doesn’t want to say for whatever reason.

Sorry but he doesn't want you to know, that's very obvious!

I'd be quite concerned about this.

That’s a good point. I can imagine him immediately squirrelling away money now that the op’s finally thought to question it after so many years.

I'd be concerned OP. I mean you don't need to know exact details but if a couple were both salaried, you'd expect each to know what the other earned and if you have shared bills but separate finances I'd still expect that you'd be able to communicate broadly around savings etc - what happens if there's a large shared cost for example? How does he budget his personal life if he literally had no idea what he earns?

It doesn't add up, it doesn't mean he's skint or anything - but he's definitely lying that he has no idea.

I would say, yes, it’s normal to a point. Dh is self employed (director of a limited company of which he is the only shareholder or whatever the correct term would be). I’m employed like you are.

I have no idea what Dh earns. I would imagine he wouldn’t be able to tell you off the top of his head either. If he looked up his accounts from the last financial year, he could tell you what he took out of the company in dividends/etc. But he only takes out the bare minimum of what he actually needs, there’s plenty of money in there that could be accessed.

So for example, I think the company turns over something like £300k a year and his actual ‘take home’ is something like £40k a year. But if the boiler breaks or when we need to pay council tax, it’s easy to magic a few thousand from what feels to me like thin air. We took out an extra £100k when we bought our house. We genuinely don’t have any worries about there being enough money, but how much he earns is still quite a nebulous concept. That doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be possible to pull the accounts and discuss though.

Doing a family budget is a simple thing for families to do to see where they need to make cut backs.

if he can’t and won’t contribute to the conversation so you can both get a budget sorted then it’s time for a more serious WTF are you doing conversation.

im self employed. I know how much I need to make each month to cover business bills and make a profit. And I know what I need to take out of the business (pay myself) each month to cover my home expenses.

i know how much to put aside for self assessment and any extra NI payments.

I know how much I want to put into a private pension.

he needs to get his big girl pants on and just have a discussion with you. I’d be making it clear there will be no additional children without financial transparency.

This is bizarre OP. At 8 weeks post partum he told you that you couldn’t afford to take any more maternity leave? And you didn’t question exactly how much money there was?

That’s all very well, but the OP’s husband doesn’t want to share any of that basic info (salary and dividends).

OP, does your husband pay himself a pension?