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Original poster

How do you walk the tightrope between fragile MH and bad behaviour?

28 replies

Tightropes · 18/01/2023 16:45

My DS 24 has moved home and he is sullen, obtuse and stonewalling.

He doesn’t reply when I say good morning and didn’t say Happy Birthday on my birthday (no card or gift) although he came along for meal out but refused to converse.

He says he doesn’t want to interact with anyone (me and sisters) because he hates us and we annoy him (although he is perfectly chipper with friends and at work).

When I asked him not to be hostile but to be civil and polite when greeted in the morning in our home this is then me being abusive and antagonising his anxiety.

This conversation was unconstructive, tedious circular arguments as he can’t see that his silent hostility is oppressive because he isn’t shouting or arguing.

He then gets on the phone to his Dad at work screaming and crying that he doesn’t want to live and that I am emotionally abusing him.

I think he is being manipulative of his Dad (who runs around after him).

He doesn’t drink or smoke or do drugs. He exercises loads. He used to drink but decided it doesn’t help his MH.

I suspect he has ADHD and have been trying to get him diagnosed for sometime but he’s not cooperating.

This situation is tearing the family apart. My daughters hate him being home and we all walk on eggshells.

We are worried about his MH (had recent suicide in close family) but don’t know how to not trigger something drastic and get him to be basically civil and light.

OP posts:
EvenMoreFuriousVexation · 18/01/2023 16:53

He then gets on the phone to his Dad at work screaming and crying that he doesn’t want to live and that I am emotionally abusing him.

Well then the obvious thing for him to do is to move out, if he feels abused. He's working - he can afford to rent somewhere. Where was he before?

Sunshineboo · 18/01/2023 16:56

i think - MH aside (and i say this as someone with significant issues) that there needs to be clear boundaries and expectations of behaviour.

if he can't meet them, he is an adult and needs to find alternative accomodation.

LuciferRising · 18/01/2023 16:58

How old are your daughters?

Onnabugeisha · 18/01/2023 17:15

Time for an eviction notice. Tell him it’s for his own good as he would obviously be happier in a flat share with his mates or living alone.

Original poster
Tightropes · 18/01/2023 17:18

Sunshineboo · 18/01/2023 16:56

i think - MH aside (and i say this as someone with significant issues) that there needs to be clear boundaries and expectations of behaviour.

if he can't meet them, he is an adult and needs to find alternative accomodation.

This is what I was communicating to him. I even had it written down to leave as a note because he usually won’t talk to me.

He was at uni before (stayed in the city for a year after).

My daughters are 16 and 21. They know I am on their side.

He is saying he doesn’t have to be polite, civil and responsive and his silence (he doesn’t see that ignoring and no eye contact is hostile).

They want him gone. I am worried about his MH but feel he is holding us all hostage and abusing us with it.

OP posts:
Onnabugeisha · 18/01/2023 17:23

It’s not good for anyones MH to be living with people he “hates” and a mum he has accused of “emotionally abusing” him. (You’re not abusing him btw). His perception is that he is living in a toxic home, so his MH actually needs him to move out for it to improve.

Original poster
Tightropes · 18/01/2023 17:25

Onnabugeisha · 18/01/2023 17:15

Time for an eviction notice. Tell him it’s for his own good as he would obviously be happier in a flat share with his mates or living alone.

I agree. He says he wants to go ASAP and is saving up.

He has v little money - working PT in a bar alongside freelance creative work (irregular and poor pay) so no substantial work reference to rent…..so don’t know how long this will take.

OP posts:
Original poster
Tightropes · 18/01/2023 17:27

Onnabugeisha · 18/01/2023 17:23

It’s not good for anyones MH to be living with people he “hates” and a mum he has accused of “emotionally abusing” him. (You’re not abusing him btw). His perception is that he is living in a toxic home, so his MH actually needs him to move out for it to improve.

I agree.

I asked him why he is here as this toxic environment isn’t good for his MH.

This is me gaslighting him.

OP posts:
Onnabugeisha · 18/01/2023 19:04

A second job would get him out of the emotionally abusive home of gaslighters even quicker! Sorry, he’s just so obviously acting like a 14yr old that I tend to turn to humour when faced with teen drama. I know he’s 24, but he seems emotionally immature. I feel terrible you are having to put up with his extended Peter Pan teen behaviours.

ArtixLynx · 18/01/2023 19:11

yes he is being rude.

but really.. if he wants to just be left alone, leave him alone. Don't speak to him, stop saying good morning, pretend he isn't there for a couple of weeks.. like, literally.. IGNORE his existence in the house. see how he reacts.

GracePooleslaugh · 18/01/2023 19:15

I would stop saying good morning. Don't cook for him or wash his clothes. Let him get on with it.

ReamsOfCheese · 18/01/2023 19:15

This doesn't sound like ADHD. Have you ever heard of borderline personality disorder? If you ignore him, he'll escalate it.
Think it's time he moved out as it's not making anyone happy for him to be living with you.

barmycatmum · 18/01/2023 19:17

Your daughters are suffering, you are suffering- it is time for an eviction. Truly. This is untenable.

I had a therapist tell me and my parents to cut off contact, finally, with my brother - as an adult; he was abusive like this most of my life, and we were all held hostage to his behavior.

I now have to have therapy for the trauma and damage he caused. Learning to walk on eggshells around a man’s temper is not at all good for your girls. Please show them how a strong woman does NOT put up with this.

otherwise, they may learn (as I did) to be people-pleasers who get into relationships with men they have to walk on eggshells around.

this is so important, that you have strong boundaries and do not let him dictate your lives in this way.

tappinginto2023 · 18/01/2023 19:20

He shouldn't get to dictate that you and his sisters are living in misery. He can get UC for housing costs if he moves out. He should be living independently at his age anyway IMHO - house shares/lodging is much cheaper than renting his place.

pilates · 18/01/2023 19:22

Are you living with his dad? If not can he go and live with him?

bobbytorq · 18/01/2023 19:22

Tell him to move out and live with his dad

Original poster
Tightropes · 18/01/2023 19:27

Thank you - I needed to hear all of this as although I know in my gut his silent grumpy hostility is chosen and targeted abuse - I have fallen for the fragile MH / anxiety and depression angle and we are hypersensitive to this due to recent tragic family events but it is impacting all of us so badly.

It is like he is 14 and emotionally immature and I need to take some accountability for this. His teenage years were difficult as our marriage was on the rocks - rebuilt and fine now but he is stuck there. We have spoken about that with him and he knows we have worked through everything and can see we are happy, calm and peaceful but he can’t get with that emotionally.

OP posts:
Fuwari · 18/01/2023 19:31

I have MH issues as do both of my adult DC (1m 1f). We are all still respectful towards each other. If anyone is feeling like they really don't want to communicate then they go to their room and resurface fully when they are ready to talk again. We do allow each other space when necessary but rudeness is not how we speak to each other.

If there is no way of him moving out then he needs to go to his room away from the rest of the family. He can then choose not to engage at his leisure. Your DDs didn't ask for this and they don't deserve it. You have to put your foot down over this and not be a hostage.

Minimalme · 18/01/2023 19:47

Pretend you are helping him and pop a note under his door telling him you know how unhappy he is living at home and how much he hates you, so you are setting him free.

Give him a month to move out and mean it.

Iwritethissittinginthekitchensink · 18/01/2023 19:52

Don’t have answers, but just some ideas/questions/provocations…

Have you tried accepting his feelings and asking him what life is like for him right now? Really try to empathise with him and get in his shoes.

At the moment it seems like he’s only acceptable to you if he’s polite/happy - that’s the very recipe for mental health problems especially if those have always been the (unspoken??) house rules since he was little. Anger then gets suppressed and comes out as sullen/‘impolite’ behaviour or internalised and turned into depression, instead of being permitted to feel it and talk about it.

Home is supposed to be a safe space. Feelings are not unsafe for you and your other DC, but fear of feelings is a problem. Regardless of whether he’s living with you, you’re his parent - you have the responsibility / ability to be a safe harbour for him where he can talk about anything he wants, even if it’s that he’s angry with you.

When did his moods/symptoms start? What was going on in his life at that time? (Not the family events - that’s part of it - but see things from his side: what was going on in his life from his perspective and how did he feel about it?)

You say he’s acting like a 14yr old - what was going on for him when he was 14? Are there feelings that might have got stuck/unprocessed at that age?

What’s your tolerance for your own anger/feelings like? Can you accept he’s angry (even with you) without feeling threatened by it or defensive about it? What feelings does it evoke in you when he’s rude/unhappy/angry? Can you sit with those feelings and see where they’re coming from?

I can understand being hypersensitive to the mental health angle, but I think it might be possible to move towards less fear (hypersensitivity) about it and more responsibility (sensitivity). That means being responsible for your own feelings first, and practising not feeling scared of your and his feelings, especially the ‘negatives or ‘difficult’ ones like anger.

Obviously if he’s acting out physically then that’s different and he needs to live somewhere different for everyone’s physical safety.

Read Dr Gabor Maté on ADHD.

roarfeckingroarr · 18/01/2023 19:58

He's an abusive, entitled man. Stop tiptoeing around him - you and your daughters deserve better. Can he live with his dad?

Gonnagetacatwhenimovein · 18/01/2023 20:03

what a load of crap @Iwritethissittinginthekitchensink

Smartiepants79 · 18/01/2023 20:08

Why can’t he live with his dad?? Maybe he’d be happier there.

Onlinetherapist · 18/01/2023 21:00

@Tightropes sounds so much like my son, who is on the autism spectrum with a PDA profile x

Puppers · 18/01/2023 21:21

This is tough. We had almost identical circumstances in our family.

In our case, there were initially genuine and severe MH issues. We discovered later how severe this had been and frankly we're lucky to still have this person. They reached crisis point on several occasions unbeknownst to us at the time. As time went on, the suicidal tendencies subsided (although undoubtedly there was still depression and anxiety) but a lot of the behaviours remained. The kind of things you're describing: lashing out, belligerence, accusations of various things, stonewalling etc. It's so, so hard to know where mental illness ends and sheer abusive behaviour begins.

On the one hand, of course you can't allow your other children to be abused. By the same token, you don't want to confront someone who is genuinely at breaking point or push them into a situation where they are vulnerable to dangerous outside influences (unsavoury friends etc) or into a lifestyle that is harmful (living alone, no normality etc).

Is there anyone who your son would respond to? Someone he respects? Perhaps he does need to hear some frank home truths and some tough love.

One last thing...in my relative's case this largely had to do with childhood issues and a great deal of anger that had been held onto for decades. Understandably, actually. I believe that some quality therapy would have helped enormously. With you describing a lot of the same behaviours is it possible that there is resentment in your son's case too? Could family therapy help?

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