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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How do you walk the tightrope between fragile MH and bad behaviour?

28 replies

Tightropes · 18/01/2023 16:45

My DS 24 has moved home and he is sullen, obtuse and stonewalling.

He doesn’t reply when I say good morning and didn’t say Happy Birthday on my birthday (no card or gift) although he came along for meal out but refused to converse.

He says he doesn’t want to interact with anyone (me and sisters) because he hates us and we annoy him (although he is perfectly chipper with friends and at work).

When I asked him not to be hostile but to be civil and polite when greeted in the morning in our home this is then me being abusive and antagonising his anxiety.

This conversation was unconstructive, tedious circular arguments as he can’t see that his silent hostility is oppressive because he isn’t shouting or arguing.

He then gets on the phone to his Dad at work screaming and crying that he doesn’t want to live and that I am emotionally abusing him.

I think he is being manipulative of his Dad (who runs around after him).

He doesn’t drink or smoke or do drugs. He exercises loads. He used to drink but decided it doesn’t help his MH.

I suspect he has ADHD and have been trying to get him diagnosed for sometime but he’s not cooperating.

This situation is tearing the family apart. My daughters hate him being home and we all walk on eggshells.

We are worried about his MH (had recent suicide in close family) but don’t know how to not trigger something drastic and get him to be basically civil and light.

OP posts:
Tightropes · 18/01/2023 22:00

Iwritethissittinginthekitchensink · 18/01/2023 19:52

Don’t have answers, but just some ideas/questions/provocations…

Have you tried accepting his feelings and asking him what life is like for him right now? Really try to empathise with him and get in his shoes.

At the moment it seems like he’s only acceptable to you if he’s polite/happy - that’s the very recipe for mental health problems especially if those have always been the (unspoken??) house rules since he was little. Anger then gets suppressed and comes out as sullen/‘impolite’ behaviour or internalised and turned into depression, instead of being permitted to feel it and talk about it.

Home is supposed to be a safe space. Feelings are not unsafe for you and your other DC, but fear of feelings is a problem. Regardless of whether he’s living with you, you’re his parent - you have the responsibility / ability to be a safe harbour for him where he can talk about anything he wants, even if it’s that he’s angry with you.

When did his moods/symptoms start? What was going on in his life at that time? (Not the family events - that’s part of it - but see things from his side: what was going on in his life from his perspective and how did he feel about it?)

You say he’s acting like a 14yr old - what was going on for him when he was 14? Are there feelings that might have got stuck/unprocessed at that age?

What’s your tolerance for your own anger/feelings like? Can you accept he’s angry (even with you) without feeling threatened by it or defensive about it? What feelings does it evoke in you when he’s rude/unhappy/angry? Can you sit with those feelings and see where they’re coming from?

I can understand being hypersensitive to the mental health angle, but I think it might be possible to move towards less fear (hypersensitivity) about it and more responsibility (sensitivity). That means being responsible for your own feelings first, and practising not feeling scared of your and his feelings, especially the ‘negatives or ‘difficult’ ones like anger.

Obviously if he’s acting out physically then that’s different and he needs to live somewhere different for everyone’s physical safety.

Read Dr Gabor Maté on ADHD.

*Have you tried accepting his feelings and asking him what life is like for him right now? Really try to empathise with him and get in his shoes.

At the moment it seems like he’s only acceptable to you if he’s polite/happy - that’s the very recipe for mental health problems especially if those have always been the (unspoken??) house rules since he was little. Anger then gets suppressed and comes out as sullen/‘impolite’ behaviour or internalised and turned into depression, instead of being permitted to feel it and talk about it.*

“Yes I have recently come to some clarity that it is only acceptable to be civil - we don’t require any happiness or deep conversations - but it is a minimum standard to acknowledge a greeting. We know he is suffering anxiety and we give him loads of space, time and accommodations but this hasn’t helped his anxiety or his behaviour - hence the title of the thread. We are all quite expressive in this house (3 of them are drama students) - moods ebb and flow with the stresses of the day, we bump along and recover quickly. Basic kindness and respect to each other is how we are with each other.

Home is supposed to be a safe space. Feelings are not unsafe for you and your other DC, but fear of feelings is a problem. Regardless of whether he’s living with you, you’re his parent - you have the responsibility / ability to be a safe harbour for him where he can talk about anything he wants, even if it’s that he’s angry with you.

I agree with this - and it’s also a place I need to keep safe for myself and my daughters.

When did his moods/symptoms start? What was going on in his life at that time? (Not the family events - that’s part of it - but see things from his side: what was going on in his life from his perspective and how did he feel about it?)

He has been out of the home for 5 years now as he traveled the year before Uni. He has had two long term romantic relationships (each 2 years) which were intense - they both left him and he was devastated after each. A recent new relationship didn’t really get off the ground and I think this is the basis for his recent decline.

You say he’s acting like a 14yr old - what was going on for him when he was 14? Are there feelings that might have got stuck/unprocessed at that age?

Yes as I said above - our marriage was in crisis at that time. His father is an alcoholic and I asked him to leave. He did. He got therapy and got sober and returned and we have a much better family life now. My son holds it against me that I broke up the family for selfish reasons. He says he knows logically / reality that we are all good now but he still feels emotionally stuck in the rage of those times. He did have some talking therapy at Uni and I have looked at EMDR which I think could be useful.

What’s your tolerance for your own anger/feelings like? Can you accept he’s angry (even with you) without feeling threatened by it or defensive about it? What feelings does it evoke in you when he’s rude/unhappy/angry? Can you sit with those feelings and see where they’re coming from?

Yes I can accept that he is angry about his teen years. I have said in my earlier post about my accountability. I have acknowledged his hurt and apologised. I have no issue with him being unhappy. I am comfortable exploring his anger but his rudeness to us all makes me feel protective of what we have rebuilt and restored in the home.

I can understand being hypersensitive to the mental health angle, but I think it might be possible to move towards less fear (hypersensitivity) about it and more responsibility (sensitivity). That means being responsible for your own feelings first, and practising not feeling scared of your and his feelings, especially the ‘negatives or ‘difficult’ ones like anger.

I agree - I am terrified he will do something and that’s triggering for me when he is screaming on the phone that he doesn’t want to live. But then 30 mins later he’s off out the door skipping off to work. Maybe I need to look at his actions.

Obviously if he’s acting out physically then that’s different and he needs to live somewhere different for everyone’s physical safety.

My daughters are terrified of him physically - even though he has never been physical with them (he did punch me once as a teen) but I also see that there is emotional violence going on here that they don’t need to be exposed to. It’s getting worse and he needs to find somewhere else to live.

Read Dr Gabor Maté on ADHD.

I will look at that - thanks for the recommendation.

OP posts:
Tightropes · 18/01/2023 22:08

Puppers · 18/01/2023 21:21

This is tough. We had almost identical circumstances in our family.

In our case, there were initially genuine and severe MH issues. We discovered later how severe this had been and frankly we're lucky to still have this person. They reached crisis point on several occasions unbeknownst to us at the time. As time went on, the suicidal tendencies subsided (although undoubtedly there was still depression and anxiety) but a lot of the behaviours remained. The kind of things you're describing: lashing out, belligerence, accusations of various things, stonewalling etc. It's so, so hard to know where mental illness ends and sheer abusive behaviour begins.

On the one hand, of course you can't allow your other children to be abused. By the same token, you don't want to confront someone who is genuinely at breaking point or push them into a situation where they are vulnerable to dangerous outside influences (unsavoury friends etc) or into a lifestyle that is harmful (living alone, no normality etc).

Is there anyone who your son would respond to? Someone he respects? Perhaps he does need to hear some frank home truths and some tough love.

One last thing...in my relative's case this largely had to do with childhood issues and a great deal of anger that had been held onto for decades. Understandably, actually. I believe that some quality therapy would have helped enormously. With you describing a lot of the same behaviours is it possible that there is resentment in your son's case too? Could family therapy help?

Thank you for sharing your experience of your relative. I agree it’s unprocessed anger resentment and it’s targeted at me specifically and the girls more generally.

I see also that it might not be helpful for me to engage in the specifics of his behaviour as he seems to relish the opportunity to rage and argue black is white so anything from me is futile and counterproductive. It’s a good idea for outside neutral friend to have a chat about basic respectful behaviours.

OP posts:
Tightropes · 18/01/2023 22:15

Onlinetherapist · 18/01/2023 21:00

@Tightropes sounds so much like my son, who is on the autism spectrum with a PDA profile x

I have wondered if this might be a possibility or overlap with ADHD

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