To think having boundaries often means ending up alone?

[ChrisTrepidation]

Now I'm not suggesting that people shouldn't aim to have strong boundaries and I don't intend to lower mine. However...

I'm a lone parent of young twins. My husband left suddenly three years ago on the basis that he "couldn't cope"

I've worked really hard to change my people pleasing tendencies. I've ended two long term friendships due to no longer being able to overlook their bad treatment of me. I've tried a bit of dating but the minute I've seen even the smallest red flag I've not proceeded any further.

The result? Crippling loneliness. I do have a few good friends left but I still desperately miss the two friends I had to cut out. I'm also starting to really miss having a partner to share the load. Doing everything alone is so exhausting and draining.

Can anyone relate? What is the answer? I read all the time on here about separated women who's lives improved immeasurably after getting rid of their useless partners. Three years down the line and I'm still just treading water despite my best efforts...

I don't know but I'm in the same boat.
People pleaser, like you, but there's always a watershed moment when I've just had enough.
I increasingly get pangs of loneliness (I'm 42), but when I look around or get a glimpse into other people's shit relationships I'm genuinely thankful for my peace.

Don’t compare your life to others, your life is your life.

Yes, this is definitely a thing. It must be very hard for you. Focus on what you do have. Right now you’re still finding your balance.

I’ve cut people out too, and it is awful, but necessary part of growing

@GlitterSquid Oh I definitely also look at other people's shit show personal lives and feel greatful for my peace. Then like you say there's the pangs of loneliness that you experience. Mine are getting worse and it makes me so sad.

I'm also in my 40s now and honestly wondering if this is just it for me. I worry about what the hell I will do when my kids are older and don't need me as much. What will my purpose even be then?

@Dotcheck cutting my friends out has been SO painful but I just couldn't overlook their shitty behaviour any longer.

@KangarooKenny I agree in theory but I don't think I'd be human if I didn't sometimes compare. My life to be honest has just been a series of unpleasant things. Infertility, miscarriage, premature babies and then my husband leaving us! People will often comment that I have no luck! I guess I'm just wondering if I will ever catch a break or if this is just my life!

I think boundaries are important but if you set them impossibly high then no one can ever pass the test. I am always surprised on mn for the reasons some people give for cutting friends off or going nc with family. I guess all you can do now op, with one eye on being a lonely empty nester, is begin to build some new friendships now in preparation, or attempt to reconnect with anyone you may have discarded to hastily in the past.

Three years down the line and I'm still just treading water despite my best efforts

Many people can feel like this, even if in a relationship as parenting can feel like groundhog day so not sure if it is unique to being single however I understand how you feel as I've ended relationships because I learned too much from previous bad experiences. I can't accept behaviour now I know better.

Although I don't think the issue is your boundaries but lack of decent available single partners. Keep your boundaries but plan some events that help you feel life is moving forwards for you.

I agree with you about the result of boundary setting being that you are more often alone. I feel this as a relief most of the time, but yes, the loneliness is crippling sometimes. Dealing with it, turning that time alone into something satisfying, does seem to be the answer. I feel I have grown up as a person, and taken responsibility for own inner life. Men so often do not do this, and they get away with it! (Until their wife gets tired of it and leaves of course). I do sometimes, in my darker moments, think that romantic relationships are only about boundary violations! That the only way to have a relationship is to sacrifice boundaries. A choice between respect and love. I can no longer live without respect. It appears I can live without love, but I wish I didn't have to.

I think it is the young age of the children as I used to feel alone until the secondary years when it is much easier. Of course I never had twins though and only have one ds.

Looking after twins is a daunting task for most women I imagine. I doubt many men would willingly help.

Just being realistic. Perhaps wait for the easier years when you get more headspace and get your me time more.

I am always surprised on mn for the reasons some people give for cutting friends off or going nc with family.

I agree with this - I'm not talking about genuinely shitty behaviour, but ordinary flawed human stuff. If you are having to cut off all your friends, and then having trouble forming new friendships, some of your boundaries may be problematic to others.

However when it comes to dating, the truth is that it is difficult as a single parent in your forties to find a great guy. It just is. Especially since you are hoping for someone to "share the load", because the guys you might be interested in are not looking to pick up anyone's load, understandably. You might meet one, or you might not, is the truth.

But you can 100% build great friendships, so I would focus on that.

So I’m not in your situation so can’t comment on that, but I did listen to this podcast once about loneliness. It shows that you can be lonely even when surrounded by people. It might not help but it might be of interest to you.

brenebrown.com/podcast/dr-vivek-murthy-and-brene-on-loneliness-and-connection/

I think there’s boundaries, and there’s looking for perfection in others. The latter will lead to loneliness. You said yourself that ‘even the smallest red flag’ makes you not proceed with relationships. I was single for a long time because I was overly careful…5 years ago I met my DH and we are happy. There were ‘red flags’. Some of them turned out to be false alarm, and there are things which I still find a bit annoying in DH. But I’m not perfect either and some of my flaws annoy DH at times. We’re both not perfect, but we are happy. Obviously don’t ever accept any form of abuse, and nothing wrong with being careful and taking things slowly to figure out what the red flags you’re seeing mean, but sometimes I think we need to give people the benefit of doubt and cut them some slack.

I think all relationships, friendships, family and romantic, all always involve a degree of compromise, and as long as that goes both ways then it is normal and necessary. Having high boundaries and being inflexible will result in being lonely. None of us are perfect, sounds like you're not really giving potential romantic partners a chance.

I second that I've been surprised about how easily people on Mumsnet cut people out and for what reasons. If you have at all used Mumsnet as a guide for what boundaries you have in place, I'd have a think. Opinions on here seem particularly strong and are rarely representatives of my family and friends.

When people who have had to deal with a history of boundary violations start to become more self-protective they often become overly sensitive and rigid in setting boundaries - understandably so. Part of the healing process is to learn a more nuanced approach, moving away from a simplistic green light/red light reaction.

I think there’s a difficult balance to strike between setting and maintaining healthy boundaries and being unprepared to compromise.

I do see friends that have been single for a long time becoming more rigid both in what they want and what they’re prepared to accept in a partner. Ultimately I think you just need to keep checking yourself. - is this really a big deal or is it just a bit irritating? Can I overlook it?

With friendships, there’s a level of regular effort that you have to put in that I think is incredibly difficult with young children! But again it comes back to compromises - I took one friend out for a drink when honestly I felt like death and would much rather have gone to bed, but knew she needed to chat. Another friend, maybe a bit less close, maybe who was a bit more resilient, I said I couldn’t as I felt ill. There may be consequences to both of those choices and I’m comfortable with that.

Yes, I agree.
It seems in life when you are known as a people pleaser you are not allowed to have boundaries, and I don’t mean extreme boundaries, I mean just ‘normal’ boundaries. The advice on here is just to say no to people when you don’t want to do something, but the temper tantrums I have been on the receiving end of when I’ve said no have been awful. I’ve been in situations where someone has said no to the same thing in front of me to a person, then when I’ve said no to the same thing straight after, the person has tried to manipulate me into saying yes.
It took me until I was 40 to learn to say no, and only no to things I really can’t do and as a result I’m quite isolated, but everyone else’s ‘no’s’ get accepted. It’s like once you have been pigeon-holed into a box people don’t let you get back out of it.

the minute I've seen even the smallest red flag I've not proceeded any further.

Can you give examples of the small red flags?

I get not putting up with serious things but people are not perfect, and when I feel like judging other people I think I am not so perfect myself

People will never be perfect and if you set the bar that high no one will reach it

If you happy alone fine but what effect do you think your thoughts will have on your children?

If you have no friends, I think the issue could also be you. I say this as I know someone who does this, no kids, just a partner and pets but has no friends at all because she cuts friends/family off for the slightest thing.

It does sound like you've been through a ton of trauma and are struggling to keep on top of things and unfortunately don't have any real support in terms of friendship.

Yes agreed. But being alone versus being with a husband and friends who are useless? That's loneliness in itself.

I can relate to this. I lost a few friends in the past few years and was beginning to wonder if I was just an awkward sod but in every situation I set a boundary when I was being treated like shit and not willing to put up with it.

Lost a once very close friend last year who started treating me like dirt when I was going through a hard time. I could have let it slide, but I couldn't let it go unacknowledged how I'd been treated and as she was unwilling to acknowledge it, friendship over.

I don't regret it though. It would not have been worth it to pretend it hadn't happened. Boundaries are important.

I also think people pleasers end up on the receiving end of more extreme behaviour than others because people know they can get away with it.
I don’t think it’s about having the ‘bar set too high’ for peoples behaviour, people do treat people pleasers differently because they know they can.
I feel happier with less people around than I did when so many people were walking over me and trying to control me.

I think demeanour plays a part too . A lot of people think quiet people are weak people. When they get told no it's quite a shock to them . Then of course there are people who won't take no for an answer and see it as a challenge or an affront.

As regards to friends I try to think of mine in different camps. Friendship tends to be more fluid and comes and goes and some friends are only around for say a job you have some are for life.
Some let you down when you most need them. Some surprise you.

I like to think of mine as
Casual work friendships. Fun whileThey last
Semi close. Old friends that I see a few times a year and really enjoy them when I do.
Very close see each other weekly or monthly have common connections. Can tell them problems.

That way when the others are disappointing I know they are in the casual
Camp.

I think when you haven’t had any boundaries it can be like a pendulum and you swing to the other extreme and have way to rigid boundaries. It has definitely taken me a while to get the balance right. My family who were the problem to begin with needed those rigid boundaries and I don’t regret those. I’m NC with them over abuse in the family.

For me it was realising that it is highly adaptive to want to have people in your life who bring mainly positive emotions with fun and joy and a good time. I can still have space for the most difficult emotional conversations if someone needs that but still mainly have good fun and a good time with a person so it isn’t about people having to play happy all the time either. Once on balance we share positive emotional experiences then I have no problem letting them be exactly themselves and I’m the same, take me or leave me. I don’t people please any longer.