To think having boundaries often means ending up alone?

[ChrisTrepidation]

Now I'm not suggesting that people shouldn't aim to have strong boundaries and I don't intend to lower mine. However...

I'm a lone parent of young twins. My husband left suddenly three years ago on the basis that he "couldn't cope"

I've worked really hard to change my people pleasing tendencies. I've ended two long term friendships due to no longer being able to overlook their bad treatment of me. I've tried a bit of dating but the minute I've seen even the smallest red flag I've not proceeded any further.

The result? Crippling loneliness. I do have a few good friends left but I still desperately miss the two friends I had to cut out. I'm also starting to really miss having a partner to share the load. Doing everything alone is so exhausting and draining.

Can anyone relate? What is the answer? I read all the time on here about separated women who's lives improved immeasurably after getting rid of their useless partners. Three years down the line and I'm still just treading water despite my best efforts...

3 years feels like a long time but isn’t a long time , I’m the same honestly in terms of healing

honestly to god I’d say the best thing anyone can do is increase earning potential

so you can get a babysitter and more you time to explore what might make you happy

this both alleviates the loneliness , and gives you thinking space
and its lonely being a single parent

but it’s also lonely for a lot of people

I’m a single mum and I havnt imposed my boundaries enough and I’m a year into a relationship with someone lovely but who makes me really anxious 😬

How old are twins ? As when they start school etc that opens up both a new social space and more free time

with the friends is it fixable ?

It just means the friends, and eventual partner you do have are genuine, respectful and have your best interests at heart.

Sometimes I think that misplaced drama, or the lack of it, can mean suddenly you're bored, not lonely and you have to rewire your brain by filling the time with healthy activities rather than drama

Three years isn't a particularly long time, in fact it took a few more for me to feel settled and happy on my own instead of that my life was rubbish as there was no partner. Dealing with loneliness is just as much about learning to enjoy time on your own as it is about being surrounded by people

Things improved as DD got older, she could join me in things I enjoyed such as going to the theatre for more grown up productions and when she was old enough that I could start pursuing my own hobbies and have a bit more adult time even if those people werent really close friends.

What do you do that is just for you and not part of the groundhog day of working and caring for your twins?

Living with people and having friends is about give and take.
Yes it's going to have healthy boundaries. But that doesn't mean that we need to be entirely inflexible and stop seeing everyone because they don't always behave in the exact way we'd like.
A balance is required.

I think with some people, the minute you don't dance to their tune or be there waiting for your turn to listen to how important they are, you will be cast off.

That's what happened to me anyway 🤣

I have my hands full, I was a very good friend but I was losing too much of myself. I did go through a phase where everyone wanted to be my friend because of my job it seemed and when I changed to something else they didn't want to know. I think they gained some sort of social status from it.

When I get more time for "me" I know it will get better.

I've not missed the drama, not one bit. I've been back in touch with a few but they seemed either quite angry at life and were actively leaving me out of conversation (if a small group of us) or not that interested despite us growing up like sisters (which is fine and I am always amicable and leave things open).

I can't wait for DCs to be a bit older so I can join some groups and be me again. If a friendship grows great, if not, that's ok.
I do understand what you are saying OP.

Absolutely this.

I read some threads on here and wonder about the people cutting off people for the sake of their 'boundaries', they sound like they're repeating a mantra, probably to reassure themselves

People are flawed, Im flawed, my OH is flawed, my friends are flawed. There is a big difference between someone pissing you off a bit or being a bit irritated with their quirks, to someone being abusive and toxic. But often on here, everyone is toxic, or a narcissist and you have to go 'no contact'.

People like this think they sound strong and assertive, often I think they sound a bit unhinged.

With regards to my friends, no, it isn't fixable.

In both instances they behaved in ways that were deeply unkind and self centred. With one friend it was the final straw in a few years of such behaviour. In both instances I would never have dreamt of treating either of them in the manner they did me. It altered the dynamics to the point where the friendships just weren't viable anymore. Extremely painful but how long do you let people go on treating you like shit?

I relate very much OP, except I’m nearly 7 years on.

I needed a long period of aloneness and to cut myself off the demands of others to get to know myself, find my boundaries, preferences, likes, needs, wants, desires… I’m still learning myself - I think we are all on a lifelong journey of learning ourselves as we grow and change and discover more the deeper we go.

The deeper I go the less alone I feel. I like Carl Jung’s quote about loneliness very much:

“Loneliness does not come from having no people about one, but from being unable to communicate the things that seem important to oneself, or from holding certain views which others find inadmissible.”

I find the more I get to know myself, have compassion for myself, accept myself, the more complete I feel.

And from that completeness comes a calm expansiveness that has made me more accepting of others, their full selves, which leads to a deeper connection with others. Connections where both them and I can be fully seen and accepted.

It’s lifelong work!

I’ve found Eckhart Tolle’s talks very helpful - he talks a lot about coming back to our being-ness.

@Metabigot That's the thing isn't it? Sometimes people treat you in a manner that is so awful that you just can't let it slide.

Stick to your guns OP. There are nice people out there.

I think it would be better to reframe your statement as 'having boundaries protects me from certain people' and I need to trust that I will find the right people for my needs.

Fawning or people pleasing is often the result of childhood trauma, a maladaptive behaviour that develops as a form of protection against abuse and the threat of abandonment by parents or careers.

If you've had to end friendships or relationships because of onesidedness or abuse from them, it's because you've continued to people please. The sad thing is these relationships would probably have not lasted anyway if you'd displayed the appropriate boundaries because they are not good candidates. I say that as a veteran of this issue. Half the battle is recognizing a genuine mutual connection, not one based on supplying another person's needs at the expense of your own.

It would be better to look at your behaviours, make some changes and see what develops. If you are spotting things you don't like in another person, that's a good thing, perhaps be wary and see what happens rather than cut off immediately.

It takes time to form any healthy attachments and you have to get out there to achieve it. Not easy as a single parent I know. Loneliness is a normal feeling for most people at various stages in their life. But you can change this, don't think it's put up and shut up or you'll be alone.

If you aren't able to access therapy, reading on the subject may help. Pete Walker has some great books on fawning and Cptsd. Also journalling may help you to identify behaviours. Unfortunately not everyone has the childhood training to identify and make genuine friendship but you can retrain yourself.

Agree with this. I’ve found some relationships just aren’t fixable and you’re better walking away to let the other person do their work - some people are actively out to be malicious and project, and are deeply incapable of reflecting.

And with others I’ve found that their uncaring is more unconscious than malicious. With those people I’ve accepted I’m never going to have a deep relationship where my emotional needs are seen by them, but because I’ve become more able to meet my needs I don’t feel angry anymore about them not being capable, and we just have a more surface level/distant relationship.

And then I’ve met new others who I can go deeper with.

I think it depends what the boundaries are. Clearly it's possible to set boundaries either impossibly high (sometimes as a protective mechanism because being alone feels safer) or too low. I'm not sure leaving at the first sign of any red flag is necessarily the best move. Some red flags are an instant no but in other circumstances you may have misinterpreted something or you may find it's not such a deal breaker as you thought in context and with time.

So it's a balance, you need to work out in your head what the real deal breakers are and maintain those hard boundaries but also be aware that some things you might think you need are not actually as important. And of course no-one is perfect and we all have off days.

A good bit of advice I was given was that if you are serious about meeting someone, wait three dates before deciding no, unless obviously there is a major, clear red flag or you feel unsafe. But for the 'I'm just not sure I feel its', or 'he's okay buts' give it three dates.

I'm curious about this from the other side, as a friend who might be in the process of being cut off by a longstanding and longdistance friend with high expectations. Not quite sure what I've done but am not particularly up for exploring it with her / being told off.

Those of you who have ended friendships due to poor treatment, could you give a couple of examples? @ChrisTrepidation @Metabigot

toksvig

I’ve ended 3 friendships this year

one was an ex who was just too inappropriate despite being emotional support

one was a very old friend who’s total total chaos and needy , won’t learn and I had my own shit and she made me ill almost !

one was an old friend who was as above but also really inconvenienced me and upset me

gently saying maybe your friend is the tricky one here !?

I think it depends on what kind of boundaries you are choosing.
Boundaries to keep yourself safe, don't compromise these.
Boundaries that involve being treated with respect, keep these in play.
Do you have any other boundaries that don't fit into these two categories?

I've been a single mum for 3 years. Kids see dad on night per week. Is the dad involved.?cteate time for you here if he does.

My advice is date some more. There are some really lovely men out there. And some not so great ons..you need to explore this more to actually identify red flags and what may be just minor irritations. Yes have boundaries but you need to work out what you want. You say being on your own is lonelyand I agree sometimes it's unbareable.

Find a reliable babysitter and go out once per week. Either a date, a club, cinema, get nails done, just make time for you.

I've dates a lot and it's a fun way to pass the time. Some dates have become really good friends and I'd not have met them had I not given it a go. I've had a couple of short relationships but I'm in the mindset that life right now is better alone whilst I heal. Don't mean you can't date and see where it goes.

Therapy helped me learn boundaries and I'm still learning. It's tough.

@toksvig , my experiences of ending two close friendships have been the result of a slow drip, drip of behaviours that left me feeling used and unappreciated by the other party.

The friendships had become so unbalanced that I was giving my all, the other person was taking and not bothered about reciprocating. Things like asking for and receiving favours but not doing the same, being flakey or consistently unreasonably late, difficult about meeting up - always on their terms and to their advantage, expecting me to celebrate their birthday/events but forgetting mine, telling lies and making up excuses to avoid putting themselves out. In hindsight both friendships were advantageous to them but interest waned as their circumstances changed.

Basically taking advantage when they wanted/needed help or support but disappearing when I needed it. It was clear that I was an option not a priority which made me feel taken for granted and used. When I finally tried to put boundaries in place it became clear that it was unacceptable and they really didn't care. Both ended because of events that were the 'final straw'. The first friendship was 18 years old, second one 27 years so not discarded quickly and for minor issues.

What I have learned from therapy is relationships, any type of relationship, have to be balanced and mutually beneficial. Unfortunately people pleasing leads to codependency, one person taking too much, the other over-giving, which is why boundaries are crucial but may lead to loneliness if this is the way you have related most of your life. There are good people out there but you need the tools to sift the chaff to get to them.

Well, I was going through a hard time at work where I'd been discriminated against in a recruitment situation and had the evidence from the interview records to prove it. So called best friend refused to let me talk about it, very dismissive, called me 'crazy' to my face and said I was trying to get people at work into trouble ( she didn't know these people or work there) when I said I was going to ACAS.

It was the giving of zero fucks about me and my situation that killed it.

I wasn't blathering on about it all the time, she wouldn't let me even mention it and if I did she pointedly ignored me. I've no idea why! It felt very toxic.

Prior to this we'd had a relatively decent friendship for many years but then she just changed. I still scratch my head a year later wondering what happened.

great posts @Dacquoise

@toksvig I have either ended or lost both short and long term friendships with people in my city (London) over a period of 16 years and am having to rebuild my social life as a result. I'm single and in my late 50s.

Do I wish I had made more of an effort to keep those friendships? In some cases yes, and in some no.

I let go of two long term friends (10 years and 30 odd years) and often wish that I'd had the communication skills and courage to deal with the issues between us instead of avoiding them because I was afraid of confrontation.

The friend of ten years was always trying to get me to traipse over to her side of the city 2 hours away rather than meeting halfway, and I thought she was taking the piss. The 30-odd year one ended because she was a bully and the way she treated waiting staff (rudely) made me uncomfortable. However, as PPs have said, we are all flawed, and I miss them both as they were interesting, intelligent people.

Two others were new friendships that fizzled out during the pandemic. One other new friend fell out with me because I wouldn't lie for her on her immigration forms.

Two others I gave up on as they were always cancelling plans at the last minute so those friendships became unsustainable as they never put much effort into keeping them going!

Yet I'm getting out there again, going to as many social events as I can, and tomorrow I'm going to a music event with someone I met in a social group recently. Rebuilding social circles etc takes time and I think things will only get better.

I was very lonely during the lockdowns but I learnt a lot about myself and also how to live with it and "grow" into my alone-ness. I realised it wasn't so bad as I can always find ways to entertain myself, so even though it was a tough time it made me stronger, I think, and more able to deal with being on my own.

You need to keep your boundaries, but you may need to be a bit more flexible about what you do when they're crossed. There's a lot of ground between accepting bad behaviour with a smile and the ultimate sanction of cutting someone out. I have boundaries, but I can't imagine cutting a friend out of my life for anything but the most serious and heinous acts. I'd make adjustments to my expectations or to my offer to them, but I'd not cut off my nose to spite my face.
I'd suggest next time you do a cost benefit analysis and ask yourself if your life is better with them in it. If so how can you manage and miniseries the impact of the behaviour you don't like without being without them altogether.
Romantic relationships probably need stricter sanctions.

It took me 10 years to feel ready for a relationship after I separated from my ex husband.

I didn't have people pleasing tendencies but my boundaries weren't great because of my upbringing (where I was taught that boundaries were wrong).

I have no problem calling out crap behaviour and have removed my 4 closest friends from life over the last 3 years.

But it means the friends I have now are genuine friends and my relationship is more than I could ever have imagined or hoped for.

Take time to heal. It's so worth it.

I've learned to relegate some friendships, which is sometimes painful, but like a PP I can't imagine ever cutting anyone out of my life except for a very serious reason, which I guess is subjective for each of us. I also agree with a PP that relationships should be mutually beneficial but again, that depends on your definition. I have a good friend and 9/10 it's me who contacts her and me who initiates the meet-ups. I think a lot of people on MN, if they were me, would cut this person off but we have a deep relationship, many things in common, the time goes by quickly when I'm with her and, more importantly, she's been there for me during some dark times in my life.