Are we both as bad as each other?

[Isthistherealthing]

Have had a huge row with DH that has bought things to a head.

Bit of background first:

I work PT and DH works FT. We have DS who attends nursery when I’m at work and DC in school.

Cleaning is outsourced but I do everything else in the house, for the DC and all the ‘mental load’ stuff. DH contributes to the morning and evening routine with the kids. I should add however that I get up much earlier every morning and get the ball rolling with the DC plus once a week take delivery of the online food shop before 8am and put it all away whilst DH stays in bed.

Occasionally he will cook (simple things that go in the oven mainly), load and unload the dishwasher, take DCs to school and nursery (maybe once or twice a week) and does generally put the bins out. But I definitely do these things far more often.

Things have come to a head after Christmas as I’ve been ill and feel exhausted. I find December particularly stressful as there is so much to do. I purchased 90% of the gifts and wrapped them all, planned the food, ordered the turkey, wrote all the Christmas cards etc etc. Not to mention all the things involved with DC at school and nursery at this time of year - school Christmas fair, dress down days, nativity plays and so on. All extra work.

DH and DC caught flu just before Christmas, and me a few days later. DH took to his bed for nearly 4 days and I was less than sympathetic. The low point was washing a bucket he’d coughed mucus in to so I could use it to mop the kitchen floor (cleaner cancelled - great timing!)

I then felt extremely ill for Christmas but didn’t take to my bed, tried to stay upright and be helpful where I could. Admittedly, I didn’t cook Christmas lunch but I did help clear up albeit very slowly and tried to share in the DC’s excitement of the day but really did feel like death on legs.

We had one guest staying with us and he was a huge help in the kitchen and with the kids.

Shortly after Christmas, we had a huge row about tidying up toys. As part of this row, DH told me I’d done “fuck all” for the past 5 days and that me “putting my feet up doesn’t work”. By doesn’t work I presume he meant he had to go to the shops, buy food and cook it. These comments made me see red, I went ballistic and was f’ing and blinding, sorting through toys by throwing them to the floor and generally crashing around so he pushed me to the floor and I pretended I was going to punch him, throw things at him etc.

I don’t know what to do and just can’t get past the fact that someone can take umbrage with the fact they had to do some domestic tasks when usually all those tasks fall to me, not to mention all the other stuff I do.

I don’t feel like I’m in a team, I feel like I do the lion’s share, get fed up and grumpy, explode and then repeat.

DH has now started filming my rants (I am prone to verbal outbursts aimed at him and say some pretty vile things) as he believes they are proof I am a narcissistic and abusive partner.

Thoughts on how I should move forward as my head is a mess and I’m so exhausted from it all. Am I abusive, are we both as bad as each other? I just don’t know anymore.

When our youngest was a baby, I asked him to look after her for a bit when he got back from work as I was exhausted. He told me if I went and got a job to bring money into the house, then he might be able to help!! I was on maternity leave at the time. Then those same words were uttered during lockdown as his reason for not being able to do anything other than sit at a desk. I was also on maternity leave then too!

I think you need to recognise that the reason you feel the way you do isn't because you're out of control or need to change yourself: feelings are there for a reason. When we want to get a message across, we say it. When it isn't heard, or when it's disrespected, we start to shout it. If it's still dismissed, we scream it, and if it goes any further than that, we lose our shit altogether and start to throw stuff about and hit people. It's exactly the same as children do.

Your feelings are trying to tell you something. You need to respect them. Because currently, you don't, and that's the reason you continue to put yourself in the same situation, where he abuses you and you take (part of) the blame yourself. The only thing you're doing wrong is to keep coming back to him.

You will have learned this self-invalidating way of looking at conflict when you were a kid, probably. What was your parents' relationship like? What was their relationship with you like? Were feelings heard and respected, or was someone in the household having to 'put up and shut up'?

The bit of you that screams to be heard now is the same bit of you that will have been unheard as a child. She is the core 'you', and she's never been listened to, never been respected, never felt it was ok to have her feelings, never been able to walk away from problematic relationships. When we're kids, we can't walk away, but you're an adult now. Respect the core you, and the messages she's giving you. She is your heart. She is your boundaries. She is screaming to be heard. Listen.

He sounds lazy and calculated and you sound like you've lost the plot with him. Neither a good fit for the other. It's not healthy for your children who will see and hear things you don't think they do.

Neither a good fit for the other

He is abusing her. I'm not sure that can be classed as her not being 'a good fit' for him.

Sounds like both are being pretty abusive

@Needthisjob

Yes, that's what someone who has little idea of abusive relationships would say. The truth is, victims are pushed to their limits by abusers and then punished for responding in an out of control way.

@Isthistherealthing

Do you ever behave this way with anybody else? That will give you an idea of whether the toxin is him or you. Often, we find we only behave that way with our abuser. Sometimes, also with the person who taught us to receive abuse, too, often a parent. In many cases, the victim is a paragon of calm and virtue in every area of life except when they're with their abuser.

It sounds to me like he is a domestic abuser. Yes, you haven’t showered yourself in glory by shouting and losing it and throwing stuff, but we all have our limits and few of us can keep our cool in the face of sneering provocation.
You should contact a womens support organisation and get advice on how to exit the relationship and keep custody of your children and stay in your home.
Meanwhile, cultivate a Machiavellian streak. Hide your feelings from him, control your responses so that he can’t justify filming or photographing you, be as reasonable and calm as you can without letting him walk over you.
I think you should get out as soon as you can, and you’ve taken the first step already, by acknowledging that what’s happening between you is serious and needs addressing.

Grey rock mywellbeing.com/for-therapists/grey-rock-technique might be a useful technique for you to adopt while you stay, but you need to be planning an exit from this toxic relationship.

Absolutely. This is a terrible relationship and all this is terrible for the children to witness.
I know this isn’t the point, but nobody who only has flu and is resting at home (doesn’t need hospital treatment) needs to cough up phlegm into a bucket and leave it for his wife to clean up. He could have got to the bathroom even if he was feeling very unwell. That’s really disgusting.

It doesn't matter which of you is worse, although I feel that you're at the end of your tether and his mocking, videoing and photographing housework you haven't done is a calculated move to goad you. It's a common abuse tactic to make the other feel like they're losing their mind.

You know that the kids aren't finding this funny. Nothing about this is funny, if they're laughing it's becasue they are scared when the adults that should be making them feel safe are out of control. They will be constantly braced for the next episode, and that stress is not a healthy situation for children to have to deal with. You don't need permission to feel that this is not how you want to live, or accept it for your children.

Can you move into a seperate bedroom to set yourself up a space where he is not, while you sort this out? I would see a solicitor to work out what your financial situation is, take information about your mortgage, any debts and savings either of you have and your earnings. Do not tell him this is what you are doing.

Please don't enter into counselling or mediation with him, this is not a level playing field.

It doesn't have to be like this, and you can't necessarily fix it by hanging in there. Personally I feel this has gone too far.

I think you need to be very careful OP. The filming you while you are having a meltdown and taking photos of a messy kitchen seems like he is setting you up to be looked at as an unfit mother in case of divorce. Either to blackmail you or use in court as evidence.

Your behaviour sounds bad but his is abusive. You need to leave this man, for your sake and your children's. If you get the chance, delete all photos and videos he has taken. I would speak to someone like womens aide and keep a diary of anything physical that happens.

Step back, go grey rock with him and plan your exit

You do sound as bad as each other, frankly. From your description it also doesn't sound like you are doing the lion's share, probably more like 50/50.

I think the filming is abusive. Weird.
The rest sounds like each party is convinced one does more than the other.
We recently had a tug-of-war over the chores. My new role adds 3 hrs to my day. We've always been very equitable naturally without having to discuss duties. I felt he was slacking, he said I was controlling.
Anyhow post my explosive rant he's stepped up a bit but still insists on doing things his way. Occasionally these things come to a head, in your case, it's boiling up now and over. You need to calm down and negotiate a better division of household duties and maybe chill out a bit.
He certainly needs to stop filming.

Don't be silly, coughing up mucous can last hours and days sometimes weeks.
There's nothing wrong with a receptacle or a towel to capture mucus.
It is not divorceable.

I agree with many posters about this being a dysfunctional relationship. It may be something you can both work your way out or not.

I would suggest you send a text, requesting a truce, and say suggest for a week or 10 days this subject is off the table. No snarky comments from either side about who does what.

Suggest you have a proper discussion at the end of the period to work on a solution.

In the meantime, keep a very detailed diary over who does what. (In the same way solicitors book out their time to their various clients to the nearest 5 minutes). At the same time Google recommended solutions to how to reconcile the division of labour fairly.

If your husband is a hard negotiator he will be less able to argue facts and figures when you show him what you do vs what he does.

If he genuinely thinks that he does enough, this should make him sit and think. If he knows the truth but just wants to bully into accepting his smaller contribution to family life then I’m not sure where you go from there.

I think it's reactive abuse and you need to get rid of him. He should have wanted to help more when you felt sick.

I can 100% absolutely assure you that I do the lion’s share. 5 x pages worth of tasks written down so far. Written down to reinforce what I’ve been trying to articulate but fail to because he tells me I don’t do those things and I get angry at the injustice and lies.

However, the op wasn't particularly helpful when he was ill.
'DH took to his bed for nearly 4 days and I was less than sympathetic'.

The dynamic between you could be an example of what's called situational couple violence - a form of intimate partner violence that is often bi-directional and is shaped by stressors in the family system (usually things like unemployment, bereavement, poverty etc but I suppose division of labour could be a stressor too).

This form of abuse tends to be less fatal than other forms of domestic abuse but let me be clear, it IS domestic abuse and your child will be harmed growing up around this kind of behaviour. Please call Women's Aid for advice, for your child as much as yourself.

All that said, the mention of your husband filming and photographing things is worrying, if those behaviours escalate or you start to feel you're walking on egg shells then this abusive dynamic could be tipping into coercive control - which puts you as the woman at far greater risk. Coercive control is very much a criminal offence these days so please do consider speaking to the police (aswell as Women's Aid who should be supportive whatever the 'type' of abuse).

Best of luck OP.

I’d like to just add that a typical weekend scenario involves him staying in bed despite knowing we have a deadline - meeting people, activity planned etc with a specific start time. I don’t like being late or letting people down so will always get up first, rush around getting everyone ready, putting washing on, hanging it up, clearing up breakfast, feeding the cat, dealing with the DCs, packing the bag and getting everything ready to go. He’ll then get up at the last minute and criticise me for looking stressed and rushing around. I very rarely say anything and just roll with it as I do with all the other situations like this that seem so imbalanced.
So thankfully the rants/outbursts are extremely limited and often when the DC are asleep. They tend to only be when I’m exhausted and have other stressors to contend with. But it is a cycle of do as much as I can take without complaining, then explode then back to ‘normality’ until the next episode.

Not sure if you work part-time somewhere else plus work on the joint business? But if your sole job is the business, you need to think about if that allows you to be independent, keep your CV up to date and develop your earning potential and pension pot. If not, you should really think about getting a job that does instead.

With the business: are you a partner, how is it set up, do you have legal say, rights and claims on it, or does he have all of that? What liabilities do you have as an individual? What are you signed up to, do you know all the ins & outs? If you don't, quietly get some financial advice.

Toomanysleepycats

I like this advice a lot

as if he’s a basically reasonable person he will appreciate both a truce and some analysis

if he doesn’t accept a truce and argues against this , OP has a more serious issue to handle

at this stage we don’t know if this is two really stressed people - or an abusive situation

No, there's no doubt it's abusive. No matter how stressed a couple are, there's never any excuse for pushing someone to the ground.

You do sound as bad as each other

I will say that your list of your jobs annoys me:: stuff like life admin , ordering the turkey etc are always the last resort of people who do very little practical stuff in my opinion.