How do you know?

[Questionsandheartache]

How do you know when or if it's the end of the road for a marriage?
How likely is it a marriage can be rebuilt if you feel like you've checked out?

Together 20+ years. Usual ups and downs. Marriage counselling about 7 years ago, things improved. Things have gone further and further downhill over past 3 years.

No infidelity, abuse or other clear cut reason to split.

Sitting here after more sniping and resentful interactions trying to work out what to do.

It feels as though I'm staying because I'm worried about causing trauma to my children, one of whom has MH difficulties already. And because of lots of other things. But none of the reasons for staying seem to be about me loving him or wanting to be with him. Can I get those feelings back?

If we split it will affect everything for ever, from parents' evenings to big life events. But then we don't operate as a family anyway.

I don't know if we could afford to live separately. We'd surely have to sell the house and I don't know how either of us would manage as I don't see how we'd be able to buy two houses and run them.

I'm trying not to think about it but I can't face the disappointment from my parents.

But when I think of spending every day like this (and its been the same for a long time) I just feel crushingly sad and unhappy.

What if it's just depression or hormones that make me feel like this? What if I just shut up and get on with it and wait for things to get better.

Has anyone else been thorough this and things turned around?

@Canabelievethis I think my thoughts for separating are to get away from the depressive atmosphere he brings to everything. He snaps at me all the time, and doesn't want to do anyhing. If I had a day off with the kids, I'd talk to them and see what sort of activity we might do, going out somewhere, something home etc. If he had a day off he'd pretty much ignore the kids, the height of interaction would be watching TV together. Nothing wrong with that but not as the only thing you ever do.

He never wants to do anything with me either. I arranged for childcare so we could go out for the day, but he just came up with a reason not to go out.

I think he's depressed, but he's not terribly open so difficult to address it or even bring it up.

Depressed (?) and entitled are not a good combination in a life partner OP, sorry to hear this.

Thanks for your update op. I find your posts insightful.

it sounds as though you've had and are still having a hard slog. I kind of feel at the moment that I'd be swapping one set of difficult circumstances for another.

This.

A trial seperation would be tricky for me too. I honestly feel I could do with a bolt hole 20 or so miles away from here where I can go and spend time on my own but it would be obvious as dc are still relatively young and yes financially, I'm not sure how viable.

I don't think I settled either but I was certainly attracted to the sense of stability and security my husband provided/represented and that remained. Following a traumatic childhood that is what I needed. It is only now (late 40's) that I am beginning to 'love' myself.

I didn't really know myself just drifted from one thing to another when I met my husband in my 20's. Only now am I beginning to discover interests and discover more about me. We have different interests and different personality traits and although he is not controlling I have been happy to let him take the lead on things. I think that we both display avoidant tendencies have difficult attachment styles but I am working on it, my husband doesn't see the need to work on himself. It's almost like, right I want to try having a relationship again - this time as being a more complete person without the trauma goggles. I feel sad this may never happen now.

I am currently receiving individual therapy and this has improved the compassion I feel towards myself immensely. I am hoping to connect in a more authentic way with others too (as in develop more deeper friendships). I don't currently feel I have the energy (or inclination) to do joint therapy as well...so things remain the same in terms of our relationship.

There seems to be a few threads running currently along these lines. The couple of women I am aware of who have recently split from their partners (they have dcs) have fallen into another relationship quickly. I know others who have lived alone for many, many years. What I wouldn't give for a crystal ball right now.

I'm curious what you think separating will bring to your life and what it is you are really looking for? Is it the loss of romantic connection? Lack of best buddy friendship? Maybe lack of shared experiences and parenting together?

This is an interesting question. There is a definite loss of romantic connection. I don't feel the best buddy friendship either.

It's almost like, right I want to try having a relationship again - this time as being a more complete person without the trauma goggles.

This is exactly what it is! In my case, I got together with my ex-DH after a series of traumas that left me depressed and lonely. He had a rather lugubrious approach to life so we seemed to be on the same wavelength, and I trusted him. However, after nearly 20 years together I began to realise that my essential nature was joyful and lively, whereas his was permanently gloomy.

I also think that Life insists on us becoming "a more complete person" even if that involves pain and difficulty. In fact, I believe it's impossible to become a more complete person without going through some kind of pain and difficulty. We tend not to learn much from the easy times.

I'm actually writing a novel on this very topic at the moment, which is why threads like this catch my eye (I sometimes worry about how relevant the story is, since mine dates from a quarter of a century ago, but it seems to be an eternal dilemma...!) 😣 😁

To answer the thing about what happens next: in my case, I sort of accidentally fell into two long-term relationships that also went wrong, but I learned an enormous amount from. Then I spent a few years living completely alone in the middle of nowhere. Then I met my now-DH, who is the light of my life. We've been together nearly 10 years. It's actually rather difficult writing about the trap I was once in, because I hardly recognise myself or the circumstances. I used to take for granted a kind of low-level cruelty that simply no longer exists in my life.

I will stop banging on!! 😂

However, after nearly 20 years together I began to realise that my essential nature was joyful and lively, whereas his was permanently gloomy
This resonates so much. I want to seek joy in life, alone or with someone like-minded, but not fighting against someone pulling in the opposite direction.

Honestly, I think that Daphne Rose Kingma book will be very helpful for you. Good luck

(Try reading the "Look Inside" sample on Amazon and see if it resonates!)

I promise I am not Daphne Rose Kingma, by the way!!!!! I wish I was, I'd have made a fortune by now with the number of times I've bought that book for someone or recommended it 😊

Alcemeg

Thanks for your update. Good luck with your novel! Can I ask how old you were when you met your now dh? I know, everyone is different but there is a lot of gloom about meeting someone a bit later in life. Did you meet through a mutual interest?

I have also ordered a couple of Daphne Kingma books.

I was 53 and met him at a small independent music festival that I went to alone (I got into the habit of doing things like that alone).

I've never done OLD and shudder at the thought. My boundaries aren't great and never will be, so I prefer to socialise in less pressured ways.

I can strongly recommend a few years alone, but that's disingenous of me because a strong urge coming out of that gloomy marriage was to get laid. And boy did I get laid!!!!! Based on sex, the first relationship lasted several years despite him being wildly unsuitable. It was a bit like that Brad Pitt thing in Thelma and Louise 😋

Oh! I just thought of sharing this poem.

I used to think my husband was taking on a good listening role (and I was happy to talk and more than delighted to feel someone was listening). I'm not so sure now how much listening was actually going on and I miss decent conversation. For me, it is about having someone show an interest, retain what they've been told. I think it all feeds into a sense of connection which I feel I'm lacking with him. My husband told somebody I am working on a project which I am not. He made an assumption. I'm tired of not being properly seen/heard. I'm not sure why it has dawned on me after all these years.

Feeling appreciated and listened to is important, isn't it.

OP, reading your post was quite uncanny as I am in exactly the same position and it felt as though I could have written it. I haven’t looked at Mumsnet for years but logged in today to try to seek answers to exactly the same question, so thank you.

I’ve been asking myself this question for years now. I am in my early 50s and my youngest child is 18. It is very possible to keep your head down and just live with the status quo, but at some point you may find yourselves with an empty nest (even temporarily) and I think that switches the focus back to you as a couple and what you mean to each other aside from co-parenting. If you find you are neither lovers nor friends, it does raise some important questions.

OP and all the others who have said they could have written the first post.....same here. Unbelievable to come across this today. I feel so stuck and just go through the motions.....I didn't want my life to be like this. I think my DP doesn't want anything to change. There lies the first problem. I am just following this thread with great interest.

I don’t feel my partner is interested in what I have to say, and we don’t seem to want to spend time doing the same things. He is very irritable and angry much of the time. I have a fulfilling job and friendships, and overall a happy life, and I absolutely agree with the OP that it is difficult to upset all that stability for something unknown. I have worked hard to provide a home and financial stability for my children and would always want to put them first, but I also worry about the very negative view of marriage they are getting, because they absolutely know how miserable we are.

I also think it makes a difference if you still fancy the other person and have a physical relationship. If that is gone then it is very hard work cohabiting and raising children.

I have just ordered the books suggested by others on this thread, and every time I get to this point think I should give it one last go…although probably BOTH partners need to read the books to get the best outcome.

At least I know I am not alone!

@Rainbowcat2 I totally understand where you're coming from.

One thing I'd recommend is to start a daily journal that no one else reads (preferably in secret) so that you can explore your feelings uncensored.

Just write for half an hour every morning, and after a while perhaps examine words that you use a lot, such as
all that stability

For me, the "hot" word that kept cropping up was "cosy." I began to realise it didn't really mean what I used it as though it meant.

Hope this makes sense!

I think the journal/ diary is a good idea and something I can give a go.
Just made myself laugh at the fact that apart from all the stuff around kids that I've mentioned previously. I'd be really upset to leave the garden I've been working so hard on, our lovely neighbours and dog walking location, and the house we've been slowly doing up. All things I think I'd miss more than him 😔

@Questionsandheartache we are so similar!!

@Alcemeg journal is good idea

This is good advice ☝️

I am early 50's and what I have noticed over the years is that the shelf life of a marriage seems to be about 20 years and all the years spent raising kids together and focussing on them, plus trying to develop careers and build a home, just about finishes the marriage off as neither party has room for their own life and enjoyment /growth /hobbies.

In the 'old days' I think people just stayed together through this part, it was understood that it would be difficult.

I would follow the suggestions above re HRT etc, and also develop your own lives and interests and at least model to your kids that despite the flaws in the marriage, you want each other to be happy, have each others backs and have interesting lives.

If all else fails, then at least you will know you tried everything and you will both be in a happier place to process a divorce and make it as positive as it can be.

For what it's worth, my parents have been married for coming up to 60 years. There were many years in the middle where they barely seemed to communicate and everything was just routine and to me looked like quiet despair. But they came through that, probably without ever discussing it 😂, and now in their old age they hold hands, go out for romantic meals and talk about how much they love each other and how happy they have been.