A woman’s job to make things special?

[Loopylooloop]

Sorry this is long! It’s also a very minor 1st world problem but something I am just musing on and wondered if others have experienced the same?

Not sure I am going to be able to express this clearly but it’s a minor thing in my relationship that irritates me. The assumption that women have the ability to think of what will make the magical moments in life.

My DH is generally a good partner. We shared child care and have an organised division of housework. The childcare has never been a problem but the housework has been a struggle. Without being really clear about expectations he would happily leave the housework to me. However he does his share (with reminders). This is annoying but at least he does it.

At the risk of stereotyping men I find it interesting that DH would be happy to let things slide unless reminded. This to me suggests entitlement. I would never be like this and am keen to play my part. I wonder if that’s just me as a person or if women are generally just more responsible?

Anyway all this boring waffle is to try and set the scene for a different point. DH enjoys family time which I appreciate. We enjoy celebrating birthdays, Christmas and other days. After events, day trips or family get togethers DH will make comments about ways to make things nicer. For example particular food that it would have been good to have, games we could have played or places we could go next time. If I say yes go for it he never does.

To be clear I am not saying he doesn’t help. If we have people round he will cook, clean and play his part. I often take the lead but he actively supports things. He just makes hindsight comments that imply to me that I should intuitively know how to make things extra special in his eyes. If I said well why don’t you go ahead and do it that way he just won’t. I think there is something within him just thinks it’s a woman’s job to bring the “magic” or think of ways to make things special. Or that I should be so impressed with his ideas that I would want to follow up and put those plans in place. Like I am a employee actioning feedback. Personally I think I do lots to bring happiness into my children’s lives but obviously will do things in my own way. I also just find it baffling why if you wanted to do something a certain way or wanted to go somewhere why you wouldn’t just do it! I wouldn’t not do something because I wanted someone else to do it for me? It seems very childlike.

Have you asked him his thoughts and feelings about it?

At the risk of stereotyping men I find it interesting that DH would be happy to let things slide unless reminded. This to me suggests entitlement. I would never be like this and am keen to play my part. I wonder if that’s just me as a person or if women are generally just more responsible?

nope it’s socialisation. Men expect women to do things, not even consciously. They’ve never had to think oh I need to sort the Christmas shopping, because it won’t get done if I don’t.

dh has made a few comments about the way we do Christmas, and he prefers xy and z like his mum does.

I have started to say oh yes that sounds great, you organise next year and we’ll do it like that. Sometimes adding if he’s going to whinge about everything I’ve done he is more than welcome to take over and do it his way.

He just makes hindsight comments that imply to me that I should intuitively know how to make things extra special in his eyes.

If this is constant, I don't know how you live with it.
I would blow up in his face after the umpteenth time.

It's not just the implication that YOU should have done something differently. He's actively undermining you.
I suspect he knows damn well that he doesn't have the werewithal to put on family events with your panache, so has to dig at you, after the fact, to make you feel small, or lacking, & make himself feel bigger.

Yes @Notanotherusername4321 I think you’re right. It’s just depressing that women are socialised in this way. And that even “good” men need reminding to play their part with the housework. Like you I always say “yes that’s a great idea go for it” he just never does! I find that baffling and embarrassingly lazy.

@Watchkeys I am not sure what you mean? I guess his suggestions and lack of action to put his own ideas into action imply that he wants me to do it? I am not particularly interested in his feelings about this. I have never had any qualms about not taking on wife work.

@KettrickenSmiled its not constant but enough to be annoying. I don’t let it slide and will always point out that he can do things if he wants to.

The more I think about it I think it’s the fact that I don’t understand why you wouldn’t put effort into something if that’s what you wanted? I find it an annoying character flaw that people moan about stuff but aren’t willing to do anything. I guess they can’t really be that bothered? If I want something I put effort into making it happen. My mum does the same, “wouldn’t it be lovely if we did x,y or z.” What she really means is can you organise this for us!!!!!

Although sometimes DHs lack of action works in my favour. Sometimes he suggests things that I really don’t want to do but I never have to say that as I just know it won’t happen!!

I got so pissed off at this years ago that I just stopped. First I stopped doing DH's laundry. We'd been in our house 3 years and he had to ask how the washing machine worked!

Then I stopped slaving my guts out to get the house ready for his family coming to stay which always involved moving heavy furniture (he's 6'2, I'm 5'3! but he never offered to help.) They'd arrive and I'd be run off my feet cooking and getting drinks while they (all men) say chatting and rolling their eyes if i seemed frazzled. So one year I did nothing. Very late in the day DH realised and commented and I said, yeah, you'd better sort it, and left him to move beds into different rooms, and make them up and fetch side tables and lamps and wash towels. When they arrived I sat down all smiley and chilled to chat with them while he frantically bussed around serving drinks and getting dinner ready.

After that, he started doing his share and has done ever since.

He's also got very bored of my cooking and has taken over th ebulk of that. He only works very very very part timne, freelance, so I leave him to it.

It's not all socialisation. Women have different interests than men in general.

There's a reason I have Pinterest boards for things and my partner doesn't. He doesn't care. Just as I don't care about some of the things he is interested in.

When I bought a play mat and playpen etc for our child I spent ages choosing the perfect ones (to my taste). If I was to throw a strop and say that my partner doesn't take the initiative to do it he'd be utterly bewildered. I've taken on the task because I want a certain aesthetic. I could let him sort it and he'd pick perfectly fine pieces but not the ones I want.

Same for Christmas. If I leave it he'll do it, but certain details matter to me and I'd want to put my touches on things. Beyond spending time together, eating nice food and some presents for our son, my partner doesn't care about all the folderol around it. I enjoy all the details so I do them but we'd have an equally nice time if I just left it and accepted his choices on things.

I think a lot of woman want to moan "do your fair share", but then when the man does they want to moan about it not being quite right (I.e. not the way I want you to do it!)

Where your husband sounds a PITA is he does want things a certain way but is just letting the thought hang in the air for you to add to your mental list of things to sort out.

Bollocks to that. If he wants to do those things tell him to bloody well do them himself.

What an ass. Brilliant response from you. I actually got the rage reading about all the men rolling their eyes at you getting flustered

Bollocks to that. If he wants to do those things tell him to bloody well do them himself.

Well quite - but the thing is, she DOES, but he doesn't take any action, until the next event, where he goes Groundhog Day with his comments again.

@whatsdiswhatsdat yes I agree. I am not really a very creative person or interested in the way things look but if I want something a certain way I don’t expect others to action it for me. For example there is a holiday I really want to go on. I am saving up and doing research. I am not bothered that DH is helping as it’s not something he is that bothered about. He will come on the holiday and enjoy it. I don’t resent this as I particular about it and am enjoying organising it.

I think secretly he would like me to be more of a homemaker who enjoys indulging people and fusses over peoples needs. I like making my family happy but not in a stepford wife way!

Yes thank you @KettrickenSmiled people don’t really seem to be understanding that I do say something and I don’t just do what he asks!

Its probably sounding worse than it is in reality. It’s just a minor thing that irritates me and a weird character flaw I am noticing. I just find it baffling that he doesn’t seem to get that. I guess he just can’t contemplate that he could make it happen if he really wanted to!

One of my SILs was so fed up of my brother whining about her cooking so now he cooks most meals. I'm surprised if I go there and my SIL cooks. She doesn't drink so he always sorted the drinks out.

At a friend's house now it is more likely the men who will be doing the cooking and serving, then anyone who didn't help cook - particularly the other men - will be washing and tidying up.

My DP has absolutely no problem sorting out stuff for our DD and never has. Likewise a lot of my male friends who are dads are similar.

It is socialisation. As some of the men doing the cooking etc are in their 70s and 80s but didn't do it when they were in their 30s.

Just ignore him then. Say "that's a nice idea" and forget about it. He can't be that fussed.

I should be so impressed with his ideas that I would want to follow up and put those plans in place. Like I am a employee actioning feedback.

Why not turn it back on him. Tell him which of his ideas are great/workable, but make it absolutely clear that it is up to him to action them.

@Reugny we do have a fair division of labour. As I said before he does sometimes have to be reminded to do housework which isn’t ideal but he does do it. He’s great with childcare. I went back to work pretty quickly so he actually did the majority at one point. He’s great at it and actually enjoys it. This isn’t an issue in our relationship.

Despite all this he still seems to have this sexist assumptions about my enthusiasm or willingness to “make things nice “ or to have a magic power as a woman to think of the extras that make things special. It’s a minor thing and I don’t think I am expressing it well. It’s things like, “why don’t we have go to x,y,z” or I remember when my mum used to do “x,y,z.” I always say yes great go for it. However it’s becoming clear that it’s more of a feedback suggestion for me to action!!! Just wondering if others experience this?

Despite all this he still seems to have this sexist assumptions about my enthusiasm or willingness to “make things nice “ or to have a magic power as a woman to think of the extras that make things special. It’s a minor thing and I don’t think I am expressing it well. It’s things like, “why don’t we have go to x,y,z” or I remember when my mum used to do “x,y,z.” I always say yes great go for it. However it’s becoming clear that it’s more of a feedback suggestion for me to action!!! Just wondering if others experience this?

It's a male thing. Socialisation, entitlement, expecting to be 'heard' without accountability ... it's how many men climb the promotion ladder.

Oh no I’d call it out every time. Otherwise I’m playing along with his casting of this as somehow being my responsibility.

‘If you want to do that you can plan it, pay for it and organise it.’

’Next time it would be good if you would think about that before the event is over. That way we could actually have smoked salmon/pancakes/fancy baked goods/whatever.’

’I’m not taking on any more work. If this matters to you please make it happen yourself.’

‘Why are you telling me? If that’s what you want, you can do it, no need to make it my problem!’

And so on.

@KettrickenSmiled thats resonates with me. I know it’s naive but I find it depressing that men you have a great relationship with are still prone to this sexist attitude. I guess we all have our blindside.

I do notice this at work as well. I worry about getting things right and can be over conscientious. However men will throw around suggestions and ideas with out any interest in follow through. Personally I think it just makes them look stupid and lazy! I am realising they don’t care and probably think it’s all interesting and helpful!?

OP "It’s things like, “why don’t we have go to x,y,z” or I remember when my mum used to do “x,y,z.” I always say yes great go for it. However it’s becoming clear that it’s more of a feedback suggestion for me to action!!! Just wondering if others experience this?"

are you sure he's not just chatting?

so "a garland would look lovely on the stairs" - does that necessarily mean he expects you to sort it? Or is he just thinking out loud?

Dh isn’t like this. He is very proactive. He does most of the Christmas prep and plans things. He buys the kids presents did all the wrapping and food shop. Also has a big demanding job. So no reason other men can’t be like this

Yesterday was walking my bouncy puppy (on her lead) when I saw some people coming up behind me. 2 older women with a couple who had one child riding a bike and the other in a carrier on the dads back. I stood over to the side to let them come through the gate behind me and pass me, so I could keep my dog out of the way. They saw me, the mother and 2 other women were trying to sort things to get through the gates and pass. Mr decided to take his sweet time, then stood literally in front of me and decided to have a sandwich. I could see the women where uncomfortable and finally one of them said 'I think this lady is waiting for us to pass'. I dont know what kind of guy he is in life, but it was so knobbish it was quite stunning. The depth of entitlement men grow up with is staggering.

I think a lot of men simply don't care that much about things being special, neat, cosy etc. They enjoy it if a woman makes it happen mother, sister, daughter but left to their own devices most of them probably wouldn't bother with a tree, gifts, wrapping, cards etc. In my experiance men will usually do a job allocated to them but they won't see what needs done and do it or do the extra bits that make things really nice. I hope that division of labour domestic, childcare does improve for younger couples but as for that extra bit of planning and effort to make things special, I think that will always be down to women and a handful of men. Its funny I see men complaining online about having to think up ideas for dates or doing the asking out but thats just the inital step women end up doing all that stuff foreve after!

Honestly, you must be a saint to not clobber him every time he gives you this oh so helpful feedback. If my DH was this “helpful” I would lose my shit and ask him if his parents raised him to be such a condescending knob or if he just lost his way. No “of course dear”s around these parts. But I’ve also learnt that men, like children and dogs, will say and do what they think they can get away with. Lose your shit / down tools in response to a comment like that and it just won’t happen again as he will immediately adjust his expectations/ behaviour.

@TheaBrandt my DH is proactive in this way he does Christmas cards and presents for all his side. As I have said before the problem isn’t that he doesn’t pull his weight it’s the weird habit of suggesting things and clearly wanting me to do them. I have only drawn this conclusion as the plans never materialise.

@EmmaAgain22 yes I think in a lot of ways maybe he is just chatting. I still find it annoying and maybe that’s unreasonable? I do still think that on some level he says these things because he wants me to follow up and do them!

He is a very thinking out loud kind of person. He also constantly asks me questions which is another irritating habit!

I think perhaps it’s just the difference in our personalities that I have begun to notice more. I am really independent, take pride in doing things for myself or completing a task. I don’t get the helpless act!