How on earth do I go low/no contact with my mum when she’s so involved in my life.

[Ostryga]

Christmas this year has shown me that I just cannot have a civil or kind relationship with my mother any longer. She is so fucking nasty to me at every opportunity and it’s now spilling over to my 6 year old where she’s picking things up Granny says and it makes me feel ill.

My daughter loves my parents, and they are really lovely with her so I feel like not allowing her to have a relationship with them would make me a massive dick. But I’ve got to do something to protect myself at the same time. My mum is just awful and while I can grin and bear it in company and laugh it off it is making me feel like absolute shit. And I’m in my 30s I’ve had enough!

Is there any feasible way to make this work?

This! Exactly what happened with my awful MIL who 'adored' my dd, until my dd stopped automatically agreeing with everything that grandma said. I wish I had followed my gut instinct and stopped contact with her when dd was tiny. As it was, many nasty interactions and years later, dd did it herself.

A horrible person doesn't skip a generation with their nasty behaviour, they just hide it better for a while.

You have to tell her. There is no point backing off or reducing contact unless you tell her why. That would just turn you into the bad guy. Just say mum it really hurts me when you say things like that to me. I can't spend time with you when you are like that.

Challenge her. When she says something bitchy, ask, 'Sorry, I didn't catch that. What did you say?' Or repeat it back to her, 'Did you just tell DD I was always a clumsy child? Always? That's not true or kind, is it? I'd never say something as bitchy as that to my daughter.'

Don't drag DD into it, but do confront your mother in front of her.
You can say things like, 'Are you now getting angry with me for not wanting you to put me down in front of DD?'

Or you could be snide back at her, say, 'Miaow' or 'Mum, you're too kind. No really. Stop with these compliments. They embarass me!'

Or just stare at her and say, 'Say that again.'

As PP says, if you have to withdraw your daughter from her, make sure she understands why. I explained to DC that they were never allowed to be alone with granny and grandpa because they weren't reliable and because I didn't want grandpa to try and bully them and put them down like he did with me. We kept socialising with them to big family occasions. That meant they had a relationship of sorts, but bonded far more closely with DH's family, who were kinder and genuinely interested in their welfare.

I have managed to put in boundaries with my mum. She is great with my DD in a way she can't be way with me. So now she sees DD6 about once a month, she will often pick her up from swimming and take her back to hers and DD6 will sleep over. They have a lovely time and I don't have to be very involved. I now see my mum much less and it is much healthier for me. I have never really had a conversation with her about it because l know she wouldn't understand and it wouldn't make any change. I speak to her on WA and I do make some time for her but it is much more protected now and I feel a lot better and safer for it.

There are two sides to this... what she does, and how it impacts you. Can you work on reinforcing your boundaries both externally and internally?

Externally, you get to decide when, where and for how long you and your family see her. It will undoubtedly lessen her involvement in your life, but frankly, you can't have it both ways. But you xan decide where you draw the lines.

Internally, build up your self-esteem and your sense of worth. In your own mind, dismiss her nastiness, even if you don't confront her about it. Therapy could help, if you are open to that.

It's often about control. Take it back.

She may be lovely to your daughter now, but how long is that going to last? Horrible unkind people are horrible and unkind - it's her, not you. So why would you trust she will always be kind to your daughter when you know she's not a kind person?

I have a similar situation on a much smaller scale. I was your DD, the youngest granddaughter in the family. My family all moaned at how my grandmother would nag and criticise them, but she was always so kind to me and I could do know wrong in her eyes, and I didn't understand the problem. Anyway, I soon grew out of being a sweet child/teen and into a criticisable adult I adore my grandmother and she is lovely, this gripe we all have is a lighthearted/unserious one. So it's not a comparable situation, but it's the same principle - don't trust that your DD will be the exception to the rule forever just because she is right now.

View this as protecting your daughter in the future. I'm sorry you have to deal with this x

She's already triangulating you against your own child.

Being "nice" to DD but "nasty" to you. That's deliberate, to undermine you.

She won't be above switching the "nasty" onto DD as soon as it suits her.

The thing with unpleasant people kicking off is ... you don't have to bear witness to it. You can drop the rope, walk away, leave them to act out to themselves or anyone else who will listen - it just won't be you. You don't need your mother's permission to reduce contact. Just do it - & the more unpleasant she is about it/to you, the less you see her or pay any attention to her antics.

It's an awful situation to be in but she has to be told, point out her issues and that unless she's prepared to address them you'll be withdrawing contact until she does.
Both my older daughters are in the same position with their mother/ my ex! Made more difficult as one of them rents a property off her. After a recent out burst where my ex screamed at my daughter in front of her children, both my daughters took the decision to withdraw contact. They both emailed her separately explaining she needed to get help with her anger before they could resume a relationship. Been 3 months now and Christmas has come and gone without no contact. Its sad to watch as my daughters need a mother and the grandchildren miss their gran but not whilst her behaviour is angry & vile. I hope you can reach some resolution but don't prolong it, life's to short for that shit!

She doesn't have the relationship with your daughter you didn't have. That's an illusion. Your mother is enjoying the adoration of a six year old who isn't old enough to realise what a nasty damaged person she is. I can guarantee this will change once your daughter is old enough to think for herself.

My mother has no interest whatsoever in my daughter now. I broke the chain by going NC when she was ten. Had the whole flying monkey interventions from the rest of the family including a secret meeting set up by my brother for her to see 'grandma'.

Long story short, darling mother transferred her affections to my brothers children. They are now NC with her because if her behaviours. I subsequently found out my mother had been dividing and conquering her grandchildren, same as she did to me and my siblings.

As my therapist says, you can pity a dog with rabies, you don't have to pet it! NC is the only way to deal with these types. It's masochism to keep tolerating the misery they cause.

OP Your daughter can have that relationship with her own mother. You are not denying her anything.

Absolutely agree. Me and my daughter have a fabulous relationship, nothing like the master and servant dynamic of mine. The Brucey bonus is you don't have to do elder care in the future. Imagine the resentment of looking after your childhood tormentor.

I had to tell my mother (who is a very subtle manipulator and narcissist) that if she continued certain behaviours (towards me, not towards the children) she would never see her grandchildren again. I meant it and she knew it. Having children actually made me realise how damaged my boundaries were with my mother. I certainly wasn't going to let the same situation happen again. She is still in our lives, enjoys her grandchildren, but knows that the rug will be pulled if she crosses me.

I think you need to start slowly backing up and putting distance between you. Avoid meeting up except once every so often, don’t return calls or messages regularly, maybe only once every few weeks or a month. See how you feel.

Only you know if being NC is best for your dc. I am LC with MIL but she still has a lovely relationship with my dc, as we’ve been able to create a situation where we feel we can keep them safe and they benefit from the relationship, under the conditions we set. She is nothing but kind and supportive of us in front of them.

But I am NC with my own family and they have no relationship with my dc. My older dc does still ask about them, maybe once every 6 months. But we have explained- in age appropriate terms- why we don’t see them. She does understand. We have been NC as far as dc are concerned for 3 years now, so my older one was 6 then. My youngest has no memory of them and never asks about them. It’s been the absolute best decision and I have no regrets given the circumstances as was necessary to keep them safe from abuse.

@Dacquoise is spot on.
Make no mistake, because she's who she is she WILL turn on your child one day. Don't believe you're depriving your child of a nice relationship with Nice Granny by cutting contact. Nice Granny is an act she's performing because it suits her right now. It will become harder and harder for her to keep it up, then she won't be able to and your daughter will suffer the emotional consequences.

I have this with a sister, who is always critical of me. I love her DC but she's recently crossed a line & humiliated me in front of them.

It does not stop, it's taken me until late 50's to realise its totally abusive.

Put a stop to it, call it out, put distance between you . Whatever it takes.

One of my dm’s friends adores his dc-until they began to talk/developed personalities. He was then appalling to them: every one of his dc has mh issues. His wife once told me he hadn’t spoken to her for an entire month. He comes across as this jovial bloke, but is an absolute nightmare. Don’t let your dd have this happen to her. She will start on her or use her to get to you.

I think you need to cut contact with them and your DD. She will feel sad for a while but honestly I fail to see how history won’t repeat itself eventually and she would suffer. Save her the heartache and break the cycle.

Ostryga

You need to put both mental and physical distance between you and your toxic mother and particularly before she goes onto steal your DDs heart and mind from under your very nose.

I presume you only allowed your DD to have some form of relationship with your mother out of some forlorn hope (against your own experience) that she would behave better this time around with your DD. Now you can see its not so; if a parent or relative is too toxic/difficult/batshit for YOU to deal with, its the SAME deal for your child too.

You will be protecting your child from Bad Things if you stop contact with her grandmother. Children need emotionally healthy grandparents and your mother does not fit the bill at all.

Your mother was not a good parent to you when you were growing up and she has not fundamentally changed; she is now a crap example of a grandparent figure.

Your mother is basically using your DD as a form of narcissistic supply and adoration and your DD is far too young to realise that she is being manipulated. Your mother is also using your DD here to get back at you as a form of punishment as well. She will continue to use your child to steal her very heart and mind from right in front of your very eyes. People like your mother are not emotionally safe enough to be at all around so ultimately you need to have no contact with her at all.

Boiundaries are likely to be a problem for you because your mother may well see you as an extension of her. Narcissists in particular do not like boundaries and will actively ignore or rail against any that are set by the adult child.

Do read and or post on the current "Well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these Relationships pages and read "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward.