Ex wanting money from the house

[Busybrain83]

I separated from my husband 5 years ago and the divorce came through 2 years ago. I got into a relationship with my ex pretty much straight away. I quickly became alienated from some friends and family as she was a woman and they felt it was too quick. I’ve slowly repaired matters but it’s been a difficult time. I have 2 children 10&8. My ex was insistent on going on my mortgage; she was not on the property ladder when I met her . I would have preferred her to purchase her apartment(which became an option whilst we were together) and pay me a rental income but she was insistent I commit to the relationship by adding her onto my mortgage. Following the divorce I had decent equity and a good LTV so she didn’t feel the need to put any money in, despite my unhappiness at that situation. The mortgage payments are cheaper than her old rent. Looking back at messages she talks about retaining this money for a deposit for a house should our relationship not work out. 22
months after signing on the mortgage we find ourselves separated and I find myself in a situation where she is getting my house valued and I believe is going to ask for a substantial amount of money. I have 2 dependents, she has none. She is hoping to walk away with a chunk of money she can use for a house deposit. Any advice on this scenario? For me there’s a legal argument and also a moral argument, one that she is failing in, if I’m honest. I’ve offered to pay her £5k but I think she is after more. Any thoughts appreciated.

So, she effectively wants to have lived rent and mortgage free plus a significant windfall?

That's nasty and won't stand up in a court. It's illogical for a start. No deposit and no significant financial input over and above short term servicing 50% of a mortgage that is cheaper than rent. Get your facts and figures together and go back to a solicitor for a decent response.

Remember she cannot have her cake and eat it. No adult lives for free.

So in the first 6 months of paying towards mortgage hwr share went from 0 to perhaps 1% of the house value increase After 2 years paying half a mortgage her share of the house as an average over those 2 years as the value was rising wasn't what it is now, which will still be a small fraction of the equity share but between 0 and today's share. She may not have the understand tow see this and will be seeking to max her return, so tread carefully.

It sounds like it was all done properly if you have a deed of trust. So you'll need to go by what you both agreed to do in that document. Depending on what that says she could well be legitimately entitled to half of the increase in value of the property while she was on the deeds. Which could be a substantial amount given the way house prices have increased.

However, if the deed of trust states she only owns a share in proportion to her contributions to the mortgage, she'll be entitled to a much smaller amount (plat least the total amount she's paid, minus interest, multiplied by the percentage increase in value of the property over that time).

You both agreed terms when she went on the mortgage, so it's fair that your ex gets something back. Hopefully the deed of trust was written in a fair way for both of you.

Get the legal opinion of a barrister in this field. It will be worth the money. Fighting this will cost ££££. Does she/ do you have the means? I’ve just spent 40k to settle a case via mediation, but we we had court hearings listed as backup. Going to court would have cost 100k plus the other side’s costs if I lost.

It really is worth seeking out a good barrister at this point. See who the barrister was on Stack v Dowden case.

Start gathering every shred of evidence you have - emails, WhatsApp convos, statements etc. It will save you time and money by having all your evidence sorted before speaking to a barrister. You will need to be very forensic about this. This is a very complex area of law and you will need a solid legal team behind you.

What was your intention regarding the house when she was named on the mortgage?

Also, go to land registry and download the title deed. It will tell you who is listed on there.

Speak to professionals who know what they are doing and make her an offer. If she refuses to accept your offer she is free to retain her own legal representation and make a challenge but any ‘profit’ she could have made would probably be eaten up by fees.

it sounds you are well rid of this chancer, what the hell were you thinking OP?

I’d be wary of making any offer at this point without legal advice as it will signal to her that she has ownership and could get more. I agree with previous poster who said any equity will quickly be eaten up in legal fees, but definitely worth making the initial outlay to see where you stand.

@Busybrain83 I would make her a without prejudice offer. If she refuses it then the onus is on her to take you to court which will be quite expensive for her. She is hoping to be able to make you agree to a large payment without having to take you to court.

If you have a deed of trust then you’re tenants in common. Legally she is entitled to whatever % she owns - so if the split is, say 80/20 in your favour, she is entitled to a 20% share of the equity regardless as to how much she’s paid towards the mortgage or upkeep. And yes, house prices rose significantly between 2020 and now, so that could be a big amount.
So, what is the TIC split according to the deed of trust?
What is the current equity in the property?
House prices are falling currently, wait a few months and then get your own valuation for the property.
It would be very costly for her to try to force a sale, she would have to take you to court. Until such time as you agree to sell the property in order to pay her off, her share is actually worth very little because she couldn’t sell a small % of a house without the other trustee (thats you) agreeing.
You need to make an appointment with a decent lawyer who deals in such matters before you speak to her again. And if a for sale sign should appear outside the house, just phone the estate agents and tell them that as the majority owner, the house is not for sale!

If there is a deed of trust then whether she is ‘on the deeds’ or ‘on the mortgage’ (legally, it’s whether she is registered as an owner with the land registry) is irrelevant as the deed of trust applies anyway. You are generally assumed to intend whatever is in a legal document you have signed and the deed of trust will apply unless you can show some sort of duress or fraud (and showing anything of the sort is likely to be very, very expensive).

Therefore, the first thing you need to check is what the deed of trust says. If you let us know what it says, people on mumsnet may be able to assist further.

OP, it is telling that she had the house valued recently but has decided to go on the original valuation. That tells you the house is probably worth less now than when she signed the deed of trust.

Take all the information back to the solicitor and have him work out what she would likely get if she went to court. It will be worth the fees. Then make a without prejudice offer of that amount.

Don't be bullied. Don't offer her more.

“If there is a deed of trust then whether she is ‘on the deeds’ or ‘on the mortgage’ (legally, it’s whether she is registered as an owner with the land registry) is irrelevant as the deed of trust applies anyway. You are generally assumed to intend whatever is in a legal document you have signed and the deed of trust will apply unless you can show some sort of duress or fraud (and showing anything of the sort is likely to be very, very expensive).

Therefore, the first thing you need to check is what the deed of trust says.”

This. The Deed of Trust presumably addresses this situations. You need to follow its terms.

Get your own up to date valuation.

go see a solicitor. Do exactly what the solicitor says. Protect yourself

As others have said the deed of trust is what you need to look at. She will likely be entitled to a share of the property depending what that says. Even if she is not on the registered title, the deed of trust will give her a claim. You need to get proper legal advice

Hi all,

I have looked at the deed of trust properly now and am now feeling extremely foolish that I signed the damn thing without speaking to the solicitor who she asked to draw it up. Essentially, I am getting no return whatsoever for my initial investment (50% of the property value versus her 0%) and she drew it up so that the initial investment was mine to keep, but that moving forward as tenants in common it was a 50/50 split. What would have been more fair, was a calculation of half the mortgage plus my investment to work out a percentage of the property on sale which would seen a return on my investment.

As it stands she has had estate agents around to value the house and is looking at a huge return on very little financial investment over a 2 year period. I am kicking myself for being so stupid to sign something so soon after my divorce and for not taking this to family and friends to check our before hand.

Let this be a lesson to anyone else in this situation and thinking of allowing someone near their children's home and investments. I will update once we reach an agreement. I have offered her the money that she has put in, in the hope that essentially living for free for 2 years will be enough, but let's see how she feels on that one.

Another ps is that I was wondering about the duty of care re the solicitor who drew this up in allowing me to sign it without speaking with them, as I was foolish enough to not understand that these documents could be tailored to the needs of the individual. I would have to look at financial losses to me before I could take this further, but would welcome any thoughts. Perhaps this is me just trying to feel less stupid.

This woman sounds extremely devious, I don't know enough to give advice but I hope you can find some way to resolve this in your favour.

If you report your initial post @Busybrain83 then you can ask for the thread to be moved to legal. Or start one in legal with all the information. That's actually probably the better idea.

So sorry this happened to you OP. Same thing happened to my sister many years ago. Her partner put nothing in and walked away with half her investment after just a 2 year relationship.

Her solicitor had a duty of care to her, not to you, unless they’d agree to be your lawyer.

You need to hire your own lawyer and pay them to see if you have any legal grounds not to pay her.

Sounds to me that she targeted a vulnerable recently-divorced woman, and emotionally blackmailed you into giving her a huge financial windfall and signing legal documents that you didn’t understand. I’d approach this from the perspective that she is a con artist who deliberately went after you to get your house, purposely alienated your family and anyone who might have got in her way, and dumped you pretty soon after you’d given her access to your assets.

Google things like misrepresentation and promissory estoppel to see if anything there can help you, and when you see your solicitor, ask if you have any grounds to argue that she isn’t entitled to equity in the house if she misrepresented the documents to you etc. Also ask if there is any way you can sue the lawyer who drew them up, but I’d be amazed if you can and even if you can that would likely cost tens of thousands to do.

Basically you’ve been conned and only an excellent lawyer might be able to help you now.

By the way don’t feel too stupid. You fell in love with someone who wasnout to make you fall in love.

This is all a very very common story but usually it’s a rich man falling for an attractive younger woman, or an elderly person being manipulated into leaving everything to their ‘carer’.

In these sort of transactions, each side is assumed to have their own lawyer. Her solicitor has absolutely no duty of care to you and in fact, would probably be in breach of his professional obligations to his own client if he suggested you argue for a better deal.

You could try and argue you didn’t know what you were signing and have the deed of trust set aside - I have no idea how successful you might be and taking that argument to court is likely to cost far more than complying with the deed of trust (plus you might end up being ordered to pay her costs as well). Having said that, I’m not a trusts lawyer. It might be worth speaking to one but they probably aren’t the sort of lawyer who’d do a free half hour so that might be expensive in itself.

Also, just to be clear, are you saying (random figures for illustration only) on a house bought for £200,00 but now worth £300,000, you paid a down payment of £100,000 and the agreement is that you get the £100,000 back and each of you get half of £200,000 minus the mortgage (M).

You think a fairer agreement would have been for you to get the £100,000 plus half the increase in equity (so 1/2 the £200,00 - M) with the remaining 1/2 then split equally between you, i.e. you get 3/4 of (£200,000 - M) and she gets 1/4?

Both ways seem reasonable to me, although obviously the second gives you more money. I don’t think the first is so blatantly unfair that a court will find you couldn’t know what you were signing. However, as I and other PPs have said, you need to check that with someone who is legally qualified and who can advise you properly.

Practically speaking, I think you need to work out the difference and decide if it’s worth fighting it. Frankly, in my view, unless it’s several hundred thousand pounds, it probably isn’t.

Also, as PPs have said, get your own valuations. House prices have dropped recently. She doesn’t get to value the house at the highest value it ever reached if it is now worth less.

I would have thought that the solicitor that drew it up (who was acting on behalf of your ex and should rightfully have declined to advise you on it as well), should have recommended that you engage your own solicitor to represent and advise you on the matter. There may be a case for you to argue that the solicitor was negligent for accepting your agreement to the trust without telling you that.

And a deed of trust is almost always tailored to the needs of the individual, the whole point of it is that it is a custom agreement that defers from the legal norm (i.e. a straight 50/50 split).

I have a deed of trust with my brother on our property, and that was drawn up by our conveyancing solicitor at the time of purchase. So they advised us both, but I seem to recall they made us sign a waiver/disclaimer to say that we were happy to do it that way rather than have legal representation. At the very least they explained directly to both of us the detail of what the agreement entailed. It sounds like you never had any real contact with your ex's solicitor, that she just waved the document at you herself and had you sign it?

One thing to also look in to is whether the deed was witnessed correctly when the two of you singed it. Who witnessed it and were they definitely present at the moment you signed it yourself?

As Talia99 says though, it might not be enough to be worth arguing over. You say that your ex has paid half the mortgage repayments since going on it, so that suggests you're both aware that she's entitled to half the value of the equity earned during her residence. The only thing you're arguing over is whether your original stake should have increased proportionally to the house value (i.e. stays as 50%). That would have been the fairer way to do it, and that's how my own deed of trust is written. But the other way isn't so far removed from as to give you claim that it was wholly unfair.

And yes, get several valuations yourself (at least 3) so you've got a realistic negotiating position. Since house prices are currently dropping in most parts of the country, the longer you delay things, the lower the latest valuations are likely to be. Also, when you ask the estate agent/surveyor for a valuation, make sure you explain to them what you want it for - that you want a true valuation, no just some estate agents over optimistic marketing price.

What if she just pushes this out indefinitely and refuses to settle? Would she continually be able to make claims on the house as it increases in value without OP being able to get her off the mortgage? This is really confusing and it seems she did this on purpose to benefit.

Get your thread moved to legal or re-post there. I am in Australia, however in this situation I know that the solicitor who drafted the document would write to you enclosing the document and strongly advising you to get independent legal advise (from a different solicitor). With any luck, the agreement may not binding.