I think dp may have a drinking problem, he disagrees

[MessageToRudy]

Dp doesn't drink every day but when he does drink, he drinks a lot. I think that when he does drink, the volume he drinks is too much. He has a stomach condition and I had to take him for a procedure and he asked the doctor about drinking. He didn't discuss the amounts but the doctor said as long as he was avoiding hard spirits and not drinking every single day, he was doing alright. He encouraged him to have several days off in a row during the week.

Dp did listen to the doctor and does this. However on the nights he does drink, he easily polishes off 2 bottles of wine. I was on a long haul flight with him last week, and he ordered at least 6 big glasses of wine through the flight. At one point, I saw the air hostess look at me as if to say, this is a bit much but he wasn't causing any issues so they kept serving him. He literally drinks wine like a normal person would drink orange squash. But in his defence, he does not drink every day.

It's totally his life - we are not married, we have no kids together (each have our own) but I am concerned at getting lumbered with an alcoholic. My mum was one and this is the first relationship I've had with someone who reminds me of that. We are 49/50.

Because my mum was an alcoholic,I'm potentially over sensitive about it. So would you consider this too much for someone's health? He is a big bloke - 6ft 5 and around 110kg so he has the ability to absorb more than most!

It is if you're a heavy or binge drinker, because of the health implications of heavy drinking over time.

I'm well aware of that. But you are completely missing the point. The whole point is that: Not everyone who has high tolerance is because of heavy drinking.

There are other possible reasons. Read my post where I link them. The assumption automatically is that someone has high tolerance because of heavy drinking. That assumption is not always correct.

Don't you know that is is not uncommon/ more common, for men to have higher tolerance than women. Based on weight alone?

AA define problematic drinking not by how much, how often, what, when and where - but specifically how the intake of alcohol impacts the relationships of the people around them.

How do you interact with him when he is drinking? When he is hungover? When he is in his dry spell between sessions?

Whats his mood like in these times? Is is emotionally available to you? Is your relationship one of ease, reassurance, mutual kindness and respect across all of these periods?

Have you adapted your behaviours, routines, communication etc to accommodate his drinking or any mood change?

Yes, I know that.

However you're not going to convince me that drinking 2 bottles of wine alone in one sitting is fine, whatever your size or tolerance.

Depends what you mean by tolerance?

Do you mean that socially or externally they don’t lose control?

If so is there then an assumption that excess drinking for those with this ability has similar limited impact on their physiology - ie that their liver function, metabolism, CV function and risk of alcohol related cancers is less?

@pointythings I remember your posts at the time and hope you and your daughters are doing ok.

I think you will be more sensitive to excessive drinking due to your mum but that's not a bad thing. I would not want to be with a heavy drinker as just isn't compatible with my life.

Alcohol is often a silent killer - the Liver doesn't show damage until it's too late.

@Fireflygal hi! We are doing well, recovery still ongoing especially for DD2 but life is good. I did also lose my mum to alcohol in 2019 but it wasn't unexpected.

OP, if his alcohol use is uncomfortable for you then it's a problem. What you do with that is your choice.

Any amount of alcohol is dangerous it is a point that’s why you feel tipsy. Speaking as someone whose husband has cirrhosis of the liver I can tell you some people get it on one or two glasses a night others drink bottles of spirits and get away with it, much like smoking not everyone who smokes will get cancer. As someone else has stated the liver is a tough cookie and puts up a good fight you won’t know how ill you are until it is too late. Drink carefully and in moderation please.

That should say poison not point

He is a big man. A bottle of wine is going to have limited effect. I wouldn’t be that surprised that a man of his size could put away two bottles of wine. I know it’s verboten on MN to enjoy alcohol and specifically it’s relaxing qualities. Frankly one bottle is not going to impact a man that size.

@Eyerollcentral That he can put it away doesn't necessarily mean it's any less unhealthy for him than anyone else in terms of cancer, heart disease risk etc. Everyone should try and stay under the recommended number of units (no harm in erring on the side of caution/health.)

He has not taken on board the spirit/what the doctor meant by his guidelines. The drinking on fewer nights of the week doesn't mean he can absolutely cane it on those nights. Binge drinking isn't healthy either, and he will be going over the recommended number of units, which will be part of what the doctor included in his guidelines, whether they explicitly said that or not- because everyone should do that and it's common knowledge.

Ultimately all that matters is - is OP okay with it?

i'm fine with dying earlier than most (though I rarely drink). This boyfriend probably is as well. But of course OP has the right to not be with a drinker, it's her life.

I would say - don't expect to change him. My bestie had a liver function test because her mum was so worried about her drinking. It came out fine.

Exactly.

The OP needs to reflect on how his behavior and choices make her feel day in day out and then make her own choices from that.

However I think it’s naive to believe there will be no health consequences in the longer term just because you can’t see someone get tipsy on the outside.

Alcoholism is a progressive disease - people build up a what looks like a “tolerance” on the outside but internally it will be taking its toll.

How long has he been a heavy drinker? Why did his marriage end? Does he have any health / weight issues currently - and what are your lifestyle expectations at 60 and 70? ..

The question was whether he is an alcoholic though not whether or not it’s good for him to drink the amount he does.

CAGE is a quick way to assess dependence:
C - has anyone ever suggested you Cut down
A - do you ever get Angry if someone mentions how much you drink
G - do you ever feel Guilty about your drinking
E - do you ever have/need an "Eye-opener"

Yes to any of these suggests a potential problem.

May I just say with Liver Function Test very often doctors say they are fine what they mean is fine for someone who drinks or has a compromised liver. I can’t tell you how many LFTs my husband has had and they say they are fine.

If he's drinking so much that his partnercworries he has a drink problem, surely he would drastically cut down once she mentions that to him?

'If its not a problem, don't drink at all for a month, for me'. If he can't do that or 'wont', then he needs to go.

I think the doctor was taking the easy way out. The biggest sign of problem drinking, before health and social life is affected, is someone close to them expressing a concern.

You know him well, much better than the doctor.

What does your partner say when you ask him to cut down? Does he think it's a problem? If he doesn't get drunk, why doesn't he have a non-alcoholic drink instead? What's he getting from it?

Alcohol is fine when used moderately for social reasons. When it becomes a crutch, a means to gain relaxation or happiness, something to scratch and itch, then there's a problem.

I couldn't live with someone who drinks heavily. It scares me. We all have different limits on different things. If he's exceeding your limit and he isn't willing to compromise, then I guess that's your answer. It doesn't mean he's wrong to continue to drink above that limit, it just means maybe he isn't the man for you.

@OldFan A larger build would maybe help with intoxication however since scans have been widely available there is greater knowledge of damage to the liver.

A fibroscan is needed to assess damage to the liver - blood tests are not always reliable. The liver is a fantastic organ, it try to function even if damaged significantly but then it just stops. Death by Liver disease is a horrible death and I think if people were aware they would avoid excessive toxins.

The liver trust has excellent information.

britishlivertrust.org.uk/new-report-points-to-avoidable-and-unnecessary-alcohol-related-liver-disease-deaths/

@Fireflygal I agree. The liver can bounce back from a lot, but if someone keeps at it with the excess alcohol, it can get to the point where there's some permanent damage.

The question was whether he is an alcoholic though not whether or not it’s good for him to drink the amount he does.

@Eyerollcentral if someone drinks more than the recommended amount then that is something they should reduce/stop. But my experience was it can be quite hard. It is effectively a drink problem if the person finds it hard to reduce their consumption. They struggle without the higher amount due to habit and/or tolerance. Binge drinking is also a drink problem that people should stop.

i'm fine with dying earlier than most (though I rarely drink). This boyfriend probably is as well.

@EmmaAgain22 I think most people would rather avoid dying earlier than they need to, as it doesn't involve a very rigid diet for life or anything. I had an ex who would never try to give up smoking- he couldn't imagine it and/or didn't care. He was also morbidly obese. If someone doesn't care about major lifestyle threats they're inflicting on their health, to the extent they're willing to risk an early death rather than try and look after themselves better, then they have psychological issues. I think most people would not want a long term partner to have a self-destructive or lackadaisical attitude to their health. Changing habits/lifestyle is hard and tends to need repeated efforts. But for someone to not even try is bad.

I don't think OP's boyfriend is happy to die young, most likely he just thinks he can get away with it, and it's a habit or some degree of dependence.

people develop problems with alcohol before daily drinking - that’s a marker of severity rather than when the problem starts.
Get him to do an alcohol AUDIT - it takes 2minutes assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1113175/Alcohol-use-disorders-identification-test-AUDIT_for-print.pdf
it will tell him and you where he sits in terms of risk.
if he’s drinking more than 50 units a week (2 bottles of wine is 18) then he needs a Fibroscan to check he isn’t developing cirrhosis.

I know it says 20 for specialist referral but If AUDIT > 15 should consider going to have a chat with his local alcohol service. If AUDIT 8-15 could probably just use an app like the Drink Less or Drink Free days app to cut down.

You could say that people who've lived with alcoholics are prone to be oversensitive around alcohol because its triggering. You could also say that we're more sensitive to picking up on problem drinking because we know with every part of us what it looks like, and spot the signs others miss. A good guide to which is true for you is whether you're uncomfortable with everyone's drinking or just his.

A good guide to which is true for you is whether you're uncomfortable with everyone's drinking or just his.

Or, relatively ok with seeing moderate drinking but after a certain amount OP can tell it's not quite right.

Yes, exactly. The problem is it can be easy to gaslight people who lived with alcoholics into thinking they're being uptight over supposedly 'moderate drinking' because its triggering for them. 'Just because your dad/ex couldn't drink doesn't mean I can't. You've just got a problem with people drinking...' etc.