DH is very close with his SIL

[Namechange11223]

Interested to hear WWYD…

DH and I together several years, want to try for a baby next year. No indication that anything is off, he is attentive and loving as usual with me. DH has a brother who is married to the woman I’ll refer as SIL, they have 2 children.

• DP and his SIL regularly text. She often sends him photos of her children.
• they meet for coffee about 1 per month. sometimes at her place, but with the expectation that his brother will join them later and he can catch up with him.
• he bought her an expensive Christmas gift (from his own money not shared account, and he discussed it first with me and explained the reasoning behind this gift. There was a reason why he felt he should get this for her, although a bit too expensive for the occasion. He also mentioned the gift to his brother).
• when I met SIL recently, she talked a lot about what a wonderful man my DH is and how lucky I am.

what might speak in his favour: DH and his SIL are from the same culture, the rest of us are not. She was going through difficult times and said that she feels he understands her because her problems were related to her background(sorry for being vague). DH is a caring person, particularly when it comes to his family, and he might consider her as family being his SIL.
what worries me: I tried to casually bring it up the other day, like ‘oh just got proof once more how wonderful you are, your SIL spoke so highly of you’. He couldn’t hide very well how chuffed he was, blushed a bit, didn’t look at me, tried to busy himself with something and then changed topic.

I can’t imagine that anything would ever happen between them. Not only because I think DH and I are solid and happy, but also because I know that family means everything to him. He’d never do something that would hurt his brother, and he couldn’t bear losing his family (parents, brother, other brother and sister) by doing something like that.

I can’t really talk to him and ask him straight away whether he is a bit too close to his SIL. For the reasons above he’d be very upset by the suggestion that he’d consider doing anything with his brothers wife. And if (worst case scenario) he indeed does find himself in an emotionally conflicting situation he’d feel disgust and terror that it became obvious for others, and he would not be able to have a reasonable conversation about it.

Would this situation concern you, or would you just carry on as normal in relationship with DH if otherwise everything is great?

Have you posted about this before? there was a very similar post recently.

what was the gift? That’s pretty critical.

So basically, your DH is meeting and messaging his SiL for cosy chats where he 'supports' her by demonstrating how much better he is than his brother. Less 'traditional', more Liberal, thoughtful and generous. Either he had a genuine crush on her, or he wants to prove he can get what big brother has and do it better. Either way, unhealthy and will end in tears.

When I recently met SIL on my own, there was a lot of that, and why she enjoys talking to my DH because he is from their culture and I am not…

I think this is rather rude of your SIL. And exclusive. I'm starting to dislike her on your behalf OP.

Classic cheater behaviour: hiding in plain sight. There is at the very least emotional affair.
She can bond about her cultural background with the rest of the family. Re the expensive gist, well I don't believe that men share their money (or food) freely unless there is something in it for them OR you are special to them for some reason: their daughter, sister, lover, crush, wife....and so on.
Friendships between men and women are very seldom purely platonic from both sides but that's for another thread.

This doesn’t sit right with me at all. The cosy wee chats and coffees before her husband comes home……….how do you know he will definitely be joining them and they aren’t saying the same to him about you?

I’m so sorry OP. I worry that I’m coming across as too strong and causing you stress on a Sunday. But I do agree that this isn’t right and it does need to be dialled back. I’m wondering how you’d feel about inserting yourself into their relationship a bit more… stepping in and away from the convenient outpost where you’ve quietly observed their budding friendship.

Completely stands to reason that they have a specific thing they've bonded over then. Having liberal values in a conservative community is the kind of experience you need like-minded support with - it's about feeling like you don't fit in with your own community, having to navigate that sense of being an outsider. Having to redefine your own culture in some ways. It's not something they can talk to the rest of their family about and with all due respect it's not something you'll get either.

MN refuses to believe that any connection between a man and a woman can be anything other than SHAGGING or a CRUSH though. This site is disturbingly sex-obsessed at times.

This would make me very uncomfortable. SIL chose to marry her husband knowing their values weren't aligned, she shouldn't now be looking to her bil for this sort of support and understanding. They sound very close to an emotional affair. You say your dh would never do anything to jeopardise his relationship with his brother, however emotional affairs aren't as clear cut as emotional ones. The latter happen so slowly and subtly, sometimes people don't realise they're veering into that territory.

The blushing, the thoughtfull gift buying, meeting for coffee alone... you need to protect your marriage and tell your dh you want it all to stop. He needs to have greater respect for you. This is emotional investment he's putting into another woman, it needs to be poured into your marriage.

DH and his SIL are from the same culture, the rest of us are not

I know you've tried to explain it, but I honestly can't see how you typed this in error- the rest of us are not?!

Maybe them two are adopted? Or work in the same field, military or something? It's hard to weave a solid story when you are fudging facts to preserve anonymity.

I’m baffled how SIL as a liberally minded woman could get married to this man, but that’s topic for another thread. I do think DH has/had best intentions of trying to support her in her relationship and also talk to his brother about certain issues around him and his wife needing to find common ground. But lines might have gotten a bit blurred in the process, that’s my concern. Unless of course, as some said, he sees her like a sister.

I don’t remember the exact sentence but I initially added a bit about liberal vs conservative which I then deleted to keep it more condensed (and anonymous). “The rest of us are not” referred to ‘not conservative’ as in myself, SIL and DH are not conservative while his brother and parents are, not their cultural background. Editing error which I only realised after posting. And pre-coffee brain, it was poorly worded to begin with.

I would say: “You obviously have a crush I just need to know how far this goes”. And warn him that they’re both crossing a line that everyone in the family can see including his brother.

From what you have written, this wouldn’t bother me.

It sounds like he’s found a good friend which is lovely.

I can’t see them doing anything that normal friends wouldn’t normally do.
It’s just different because they are technically family rather than friends.
But I don’t see the issue of being family and then becoming friends.

It sounds like he sees her as a sister and a friend.

So your sil thinks she may have married the wrong man as your dh is so liberal but her Dh isn’t? You mention upthread she tells you how lucky you are and that she also talks about her issues in her own marriage. Well what more evidence do you need? Clearly there is a mutual crush going on and maybe your sil wants to keep a hold on your Dh too (I know people like this, “if I can’t have him then I’ll make things difficult for you”. I don’t think culture has much to do with it but she’s using it as a stick to beat you with, to make excuses that you just ‘don’t get it’. Sorry op but it doesn’t sound good to me. Your instincts are telling you something here. Doesn’t seem like a normal friendship to me from everything you have written in subsequent posts.

I bet her ‘very conservative’ husband also has a problem with this friendship but your Dh is the cool one right. I’m from these conservative cultures myself and whilst I’m liberal compared to most and I respect their ways and wouldn’t feel the need to latch onto someone else’s husband just because he’s more like me. That would definitely be noticed by the others so why rock the boat. I mean you’re quite liberal and you’ve noticed.

‘oh just got proof once more how wonderful you are, your SIL spoke so highly of you’.

I would say he's tried to change topic here because just that sentence alone sounds like you are digging.

I think your over reacting slightly

Still want to know why the present is only from him and not from both of you. Does bil give you a present that is just from him?

I think if your relationship is that serious you would buy family gifts from both of you? I understand that he would spend time alone with his brother. With his sister in law seems a little odd. Or start hanging out with his brother alone and see how he likes it? 😂 Maybe it is a cultural thing but I think I would find it a little odd. Listen to your gut and maybe raise a few points with him.

It's a bit strange. What was the gift, and why it was only from him, not both of you? Are you going to get her a joint gift as well? If it's all innocent, they shouldn't mind you joining in, even if it's to "understand their culture" better.

Hmmm I see why you feel weird about it. It would be a lot less weird if they were the only two from the same culture. I could understand them being close because of that. But it isn't like she has nobody from her own culture around. She's married to his brother who has exactly the same culture as your DH as they're siblings. So she isn't getting anything from him culturally that she can't get from her own DH.

The blushing is weird to me as well. Is he normally bashful like that?

The ‘Present from him alone’ - thing happened when I suggested getting thing X for SIL that’s costs about £50 (I don’t really spend more than £25-50 on a present except the ones for DH and my parents), but then he said he wants to get her something that costs considerably more but that I don’t need to worry about it because he will pay for it himself. And some reasoning why he should get her this present. I then kind of left it there. But he has a habit of doing such things, he sometimes buys an additional present for my parents as ‘his present’ for them, although we already have agreed on and bought a joint present. This happened in the past with birthdays and Christmas, so it’s not out of character.

How would he react if you would have a close male friend?

Personally in the conservative culture I come from, if someone from a more liberal outsider culture rocked up, and I myself am quite liberal within my culture, I would see them as a breath of fresh air and would want to learn more about them, especially if they were female not make a point as to how amazing their Dh was and leave them out as they’re an outsider.
I just find it odd that your sil seems to have this ‘exclusive’ friendship with your Dh under the guise of them both being more liberal.
I’m trying to understand how this works within the culture, surely there are plenty of people in her family or friends that would be liberal like her who she can talk to who would understand the cultural nuances if she thinks you’re too much of an outsider which is rubbish to me anyway.
It just doesn’t add up why it’s your Dh and nobody else, is he really so liberal, as a man in a conservative culture being brought up more of less the same as his brother, what is so liberal about him apart from the fact he thinks it’s completely normal to buy her exclusive gifts and see her without his brother being there etc and her Dh is too conservative. Without generalising many of these men also have double standards and would be shocked if their wives decided to behave like them.

in your shoes I’d get a male Eastern European friend and do the same, and then tell your husband he doesn’t get it as he’s not from the culture etc. He should be cool with it as he’s so liberal.

Maybe they do have a healthy positive bond but if it was me I'd feel left out and hurt. The gift, the blushing, the fact you know doubts are in the air re her own relationship. Something is amiss, I'm wondering if you are loathe to say that because they seem to have a cultural bond that doesn't involve you. Even so, you are right to sense something, it could just be that your DH is too close to another, any other woman. You could start something new with hour DH, something really basic like a box set, going out a new walk, going to a new coffee shop, buy an implement for kitchen to cook together. My point is your DH will then have something new going on that doesn't involve SIL or BIL. He will talk about it and hopefully she will naturally internalise that your marriage is healthy and she should stay well out of it. I wouldn't think it appropriate or be able to tolerate the jealousy.