How would you read this scenario?

[AMelko]

Hi All. To anyone who might take the time to read my thread and offer feedback, thank you in advance.

A little background: I’m early 40s, divorced, and just came out of a LDR about 8 months ago. There is a female that works at a place that I frequent nearly daily (where I work and live is within minutes of her place of work). I knew her from a say hello standpoint for a year or more before we started talking a little more friendly. I always thought she was cute, but since I was in a LDR at the time, the thought of pursuing anything further wasn’t something that I had considered.

Earlier this summer, her and I began to chat more, and this is probably because I started initiating more discussion with her. She always seemed engaged in our discussion and, at times, when I felt as if I was running out of things to say, it seemed as if she would make a point of keeping the conversation going. On one occasion I brought her a coffee. On a separate occasion, I came across a small item at a store that she had mentioned that she was looking for during one of her discussions and I gave that to her as well. In both instances, she seemed both appreciative and receptive. One day, she returned the favor by purchasing my lunch as a thank you.

Sometime shortly thereafter, I was talking with one of her employees and that person mentioned that she has a boyfriend that she lives with. To be clear, I never inquired, and it was just by chance that this was actually mentioned. A part of me was surprised because, despite our numerous conversations, she had never mentioned a boyfriend. Another part of me wasn’t surprised because I always thought she was too pretty and good-natured to be single. In addition to my fear of rejection, my reservations about whether she had a boyfriend or not is actually what kept me from asking her out during this month and a half or so period that we had began to chat more (although I did come close to asking on a couple of occasions). Anyway, shortly after learning this I was talking with her one day and she mentioned that she was about to take a trip. I decided to push a bit and said, “So, it’s just you going?” to which she finally replied that she was going with her boyfriend. From that point forward, I decided to just back off.
IRONICALLY, over the next month or so, I ran into her on several occasions dining alone outside at a nearby café while on her lunch break. Her being there would usually catch me off guard and, often times, what I expected to be a quick hello would turn into 20 mins to an hour of discussion on a variety of topics (family, career, exercise, hobbies, etc.).

Again, she always seemed receptive and engaged in the discussion (and still no further mention of the boyfriend). Shortly after these several encounters, she was out sick for a week and I was traveling more for work. Over the next month or so, our discussion was very limited.

On or around Halloween, our communication picked back up some. Around this time, she mentioned to me that she came across something at a shop that she got for me because it reminded her of a discussion that she and I had (and it was another way of saying thanks again for the couple of things that I had bought her a couple months back). A week or two later she texted me one evening and asked if I would want to meet her outside her work so she could give me this gift (which turned out to be very sweet gift). Her and I ended up talking that night for about an hour.

A few things that I didn’t mention in the above: She always does seems to make a point of smiling and saying hi any time that she sees me. For a while this past summer, it seemed as if her and I would make eye contact frequently even when not speaking direct. Her job is pretty busy so while at work our discussion is usually pretty limited. Without getting into the details, she got my number from someone at one point and on occasion will send me a text (typically humorous little things). I rarely ever initiate the discussion and just leave that in her court. There is a 10 year age gap between us (early 40s, early 30s). Our discussion has always remained above board, so to speak. Nothing sexual. One day we were talking and I complimented her appearance in response to a comment she made. She seemed to appreciate the compliment. One point she said I was built like someone that I think most men would find complimentary in nature.

TL;DR – I like a woman with a boyfriend who on occasion seems like she might like me. Perhaps she doesn’t. Perhaps it’s just in my head and/or she’s just being friendly. To be clear, I don’t intend to pursue a relationship with a woman who has a boyfriend, however; if that scenario ever doesn’t work out, she is definitely someone I am attracted to and would like to get to know better.

I have went back and forth as to whether she sees me as just a friend, or if it’s possible that she might like me beyond that. I would lean toward the former, but I honestly don’t know.

Does this sound like she is just being friendly, or is it possible that it could be more?

I think she is young and naive not to have understood your gestures were because you had a romantic or sexual interest in her. Her smileyness was friendliness and her not mentioning her boyfriend was because she never saw you as a threat to their relationship so it wasn't important to drop him in the conversation.
It's true that people casually mention their partners in conversations but there is also a known tactic of mentioning a husband/partner/fiance/boyfriend to ward any potentially interested male off. I think she didn't bother mention him because she thought you were just a friend.

I think she likes you as a person and because there hasn't been overt sexual flirting between you, she's reasoned to herself that she has done nothing wrong relating to her boyfriend.
However, on some level she will have an inkling that you like her given that you gave her a thoughtful gift. There would of been guilt possibly around accepting the gift, without reciprocation which she attempted to equalise by gifting back.
I'd say don't read too much into it, carry on your own life, beware of putting your options with others on hold because you've filled your head with her too much.
See it as a nice sideline in life, but don't let it hold you in a waiting pattern.

Thank you, @buables ! I appreciate your post. I really DID find this difficult to call. Over a several month period, I would go back and forth from "maybe she likes me too" to "she doesn't like me like that" and then back to "I guess it's possible". It's not a bad thing (just the nature of our paths not crossing or being busy with work), but I'd say our friendship would run a little hot and cold at times, so to speak. Some weeks we would talk several times a week, and there other times where we would go a couple / few weeks with very little communication.

The gift is what caused me to question the most. Could she have given it to me just in a friendly way? Absolutely, she could have. But would someone do that if it's probably at least somewhat obvious that the person that they are giving the gift to probably likes them (as others have pointed out, "women can tell")? At the point of her giving me the gift (a couple weeks back), it had been at least a couple of months since I had gifted her anything. And during that time, she had already bought me lunch.

It wasn't just the gift. A week or so prior to her giving me the gift, she had texted me one night while at work, which resulted in us texting back and forth for about a 3 hour period. We have a similar sense of humor, so it was just funny, jokey type of stuff. At one point during that text exchange she said, "Hey ...". I responded "Yeah"? She responded "So how old are you, anyway?"

The night she texted me to ask if I wanted to meet so she could give me the gift she asked where I wanted to meet (it was 8-9pm at night). There's a bar right in this area so I responded, "If you're not in a hurry, I'd buy you a beer". She asked if she could take a "raincheck" on the drink because she had to be up early, but when we met out in a pretty empty parking lot, we ended up talking for an hour despite it being a pretty chilly night.

Again, I'm not saying that any of these individual things are sure signs that she likes me as anything more than a friend (not at all), but I also don't think that I'm totally crazy for at least questioning the possibility when all things are considered? While I'd rather not say what the gift was specifically, it was an extremely nice gesture since it involved something that she had remembered that we had discussed months previously.

.. (and thanks for your thoughtful insight and questions .. and not leading me to believe that you think I'm totally crazy. lol)

I'm the opposite to baubles view. I always reciprocate a gift as it makes me feel equal and don't owe anything. I have given gifts to colleagues and people I'm not close to including men without any romantic intention behind it.
I'd only accept without returning the favour if I genuinely knew they were giving it to me out of love and we have an intimate relationship. Like, I don't rush to reciprocate a gift from DH or my then boyfriend. Keeping score and returning the favour is something I do with people I'm not close to. I don't keep taps on who bought coffee with my DH but I will keep taps with a colleague or an acquintance because our intentions towards each other aren't 100% clear and as we don't know each other THAT well I wouldn't want them to think I'm taking advantage. With my husband or family, we do things for each other without having to rush to pay back it all works itself out.

I dunno. To me it seems weird, the lack of mentioning a bf meeting you on a car park to give you a gift. I think you're getting a hard time on here just because you're male.

Maybe she views you as just a friend, but I think instinctively she must know you like her. You're practically a stranger to her really and you're buying each other gifts.

@whattodo1975.After reading many of the responses, I agree that the possibility exists that it may be just a friendly scenario where I serve as an ego boost to her.

Thanks for helping me to reiterate that we are not colleagues.

Thanks @ZenNudist It all sounds like fair and sound advice. I agree that carrying a torch would make me much less attractive. I can't help that I like her, but I certainly intend to live my life.

I appreciate your complete honesty, @hugefanofcheese (and I like your username). You provided a good overview of the situation and the advice that you provided seems reasonable enough.

Regarding the boyfriend that was neve really mentioned, I do find it interesting how evenly split the feedback appears to be between "she deliberately withheld this information", versus "she wasn't required to disclose this and saw no reason to do so". And I actually use the word "interesting" sincerely. It shows the differences in perspective that exist.

If, as a man, I was the one who failed to mention that I had a girlfriend, and I suspected this woman might like me, would the same people who said "she wasn't required to and/or had no reason to tell you been saying that I was within my right to not disclose this? That question isn't intended to be argumentative. I'm just genuinely curious if some of those responses would have changed based on me being a man?

For what it's worth, I'm in the camp who doesn't think that she did anything wrong, however; I think the possibility exists that the boyfriend was deliberately omitted from discussion (but only she could say for certain why that was).

lol - Ouch! But seriously, I definitely believe than men and women can just be friends. As mentioned previously, I have women friends that I am not sexually attracted to.

Thanks for your thoughts just the same.

@AMelko , I've enjoyed your responses to my fairly caustic replies. I think, following your further (dripfeed) posts this young woman is enjoying the frisson of attention, but you still need to get a grip and give up on thinking it's a possibility.

@CheeseIsMyPatronus "So you're saying that I have a chance"? lol

@HelloGooodBye It sounds like you and @Opentooffers have a pretty similar perspective on the gift giving matter, which I find interesting.

I guess it's human nature to base "normal" as to how one's self would handle a specific scenario. So with that said, I can't personally envision a scenario where I would gift something to a woman, who I believe to be attracted to me, but that I am not interested in in return.

But I do find both of your perspectives on the matter interesting. Maybe some see returning the favor as nothing being owed, or lessens any potential guilt? I hadn't thought about it from that angle. And I don't know if I think that is how she saw it either, but I suppose that anything is possible.

Thanks for the feedback.

You sound lonely.

It's fairly unusual for a woman who is young to date a much older man in real life (I know TV/film show it all the time!) unless the woman is particularly vulnerable or the man is very wealthy/famous etc. I know it's possible - I'm just saying it's fairly unusual. I think you mention you are a single father? Do you mention your children to her? They are another reason I doubt she sees you as potential dating material.

I doubt very much she views you as anything more than a friendship, and possibly wants to keep elements of her life (like her BF) as private.

I enjoy male company, but I definitely don't want to shag every man I speak to. I have a best friend work buddies, he's 25 years older than me, it's never ever been considered that we are interested in each other!

Its obvious you both get on great and enjoy each others company - theres been the little thoughtful gifts, and fairly long conversations.

So, to me, the fact she didn't mention a boyfriend until pushed is one of 2 reasons.

1. She sees you purely as a friend, has no idea you are into her in that way and so just didn't see the need to mention him.

Whenever I've been speaking to a man, and I start getting the feeling he might be flirting a bit, I will always drop in the conversation about having a partner. Its just an easy and quick way to set boundaries.

2 . She actually likes you and purposely didn't want you to know about him. perhaps they are not getting on too great and shes thinking of leaving, perhaps they get on fabulously and shes just soaking up the ego boast. Who knows.

but either way, would you want to pursue something with someone who would do this anyway?

I think the best thing to do would just continue the friendship as you have it. if she becomes single you can then decide what to do. if it becomes too much for you, and you really start to fall for her either just tell her how you feel, or walk away.

Hi @emilydickinsonscat

Thanks for your message. I don't think I'm lonely. At least, it's not something that I think about. If I had to identity any specific feeling that I might have at times it would probably be "overwhelmed". My career keeps me fairly busy, I have my child half the week, I enjoy working out 5 nights per week, not to mention all the day to day responsibilities that come along with managing a house and life.

As you pointed out, I am about 10 years older than her. Maybe that is a factor for her. I don't know. Personally, I have never dated anyone with that great of an age difference, and it's not something that I deliberately set out to do. With that said, I would think the scenario you described with your work buddy that is 25 years older would be notably different? Then again, some say age is just a number, so who knows.

While not wealthy (and obviously not a celebrity), I do have a good paying career, I'm in good physical shape, and I have a full head of hair. I'm not saying any of this to boast. I just didn't want you to think that I'm some overweight, balding, 40 year old that is scraping change from the sofa cushions to make ends meet (and all while trying to date someone 10 years younger). lol

While I wouldn't want my finances to ever be a deciding factor for her (or anyone else for that matter), knowing the company that her boyfriend works for and what he does for a living, conservatively, I would say that I make double his annual salary. Again, I'm not saying any of this to boast. I only mention it because I don't think I'd be viewed by her as a downgrade in that regard (despite not being a wealthy celebrity).

Yes. She is aware that I have a child. On a couple of occasions she has actually sent me texts to follow up on conversations that we've had regarding my child. Things such as "have you tried this" (link to an article) or "how about going here", etc. Just thoughtful, helpful little suggestions.

Thanks again for your comments and questions.

Hi @Bookworm20 Thanks for your reply. It does seem somewhat safe to say that one of the two reason that you provided is probably accurate.

With that said, and despite others having said the same, I can't help but be skeptical of reason #1. I don't understand why a woman would have to sense that someone wants more than friendship before they would mention that they have a boyfriend. Had her and I only had a couple of 5 minute conversations, sure, I could see the boyfriend not being brought up. However, despite us not being the best of friends and sharing our deepest most darkest secrets, there were still numerous conversations where numerous other people were referenced to include her parents, her pet, her friends, her co-workers, etc., etc..

As someone else in this thread had mentioned, when you're in a relationship, you would think that your lives are at least somewhat intertwined with that other person. When I was married or in a relationship, I think it would have extremely difficult to completely omit that person from conversation with others. As in, I would have to go out of my way and deliberately make a point of not referencing that person.

Again, it's not a matter of me thinking what she was "wrong". I think she's a great person and she's certainly entitled to say or not say whatever she chooses. It just made me curious more than anything else. Not to mention, I just find it extremely difficult to envision the scenario that she is just totally oblivious to the fact that I am attracted to her.

Thanks again for the feedback.

Personally in my 20s-30s I was not remotely interested in dating men who were 10 years older, no matter how much hair he has on his head.
A man with a child and a history (me at that age) again I wouldn't have been remotely interested in.

I've personally never struggled to earn well myself and when I was dating my boyfriend (became husband) his salary tripled in the time we were together, and so again your salary won't remotely be a draw for me at that age.

Who knows what motivates this attached woman to talk to you, maybe she just enjoys your company/chat? Again, most women don't want to chuck away their existing relationship for every man who chats with them. As you describe her as young and attractive, you aren't in with much of a shot I'd think as women are fighting off older men constantly at that age.

(My ex had a good salary to start with and we were together about 15 years).
So many women aren't motivated by older men with double the money, it's not enough to turn their heads unless they are desperate (which she doesn't sound like).

@emilydickinsonscat I agree. I don't think she is desperate at all. And to reiterate, I'm not trying to buy her, or even impress her with my finances for that matter. I don't think that should be a focal point of any relationship, regardless of age.

She very well view me as a fossil. She never gave me that impression, but who knows. Personally, I'm not embarrassed by the fact that I'm 40. I'm in good shape. Try to dress the best I can. Most people think I'm 5 years younger than I actually am. The alternate to aging doesn't sound any more appealing. lol

I have just re-read all OP's posts but with gender reversal as in, a woman posting these questions about a man she knows and likes, but she's not sure if he likes her more than a friend (and - why he didn't mention his wife sooner).
Re-reading it this way is quite revealing.
A while back, I discovered over time that my DH had had a friendship rather like this. It turned out he had gifted this woman a couple of things. She had gifted him a couple of things. They would spend time talking unbeknownst to me. There had been no mention of me, seemingly, in their chats. When I asked if she knew if he was married, his response had been that he assumed this woman would assume that he was married, since he had talked about our DC.
Now, unless I am married to the greatest actor on earth, DH was definitely not having an affair with this woman, nor was he interested in pursuing her in 'that' way.
But it's odd (and upsetting, yes) to find out that your partner is seemingly able to conduct a friendship for quite some time without ever mentioning you.
There would have been times when he must surely have mentioned picking up DC from University, etc. Big events, yet the partner is erased?! Not normal.
The closest I got to an explanation for this strange behaviour was that he had enjoyed being someone a little 'different' to who he normally is, and he could maintain this persona for the short times he was present with this woman.
Perhaps it is this, with this woman @AMelko ?!

My husband says she was keeping her options open.
I say she just saw you as a friend and didn't do the classic 'boyfriend drop' that we women do when we sense a man is flirting and want him to back off because she never saw you as a potential mate or picked up on any flirting from your side.

THANK YOU for posting this, @buables . I do appreciate it. I didn't want to harp on this because I didn't want the theme of this thread to deteriorate to, what appears to be, double standards between men and women, but I was a little surprised at some of the initial replies that I received.

Despite outlining in my OP that she initially omitted having a boyfriend, initiated texts, and returned the favor of giving gifts, I was being told by several to leave her alone, recognize that she only sees me as an older friend, and how it was a shame that she was deceived into thinking that I was a friend to begin with. lol
With that said, I do appreciate each and everyone who provided advice, regardless of what was said and how it was delivered. I DO feel like it allowed me to look at this from several angles and provided some perspective.

I suspect that if I had started this thread and said, "I've been taking to this pretty woman for several months and OH, by the way, I didn't mention to her that I have a girlfriend because I didn't think she was attracted to me and/or because I like to keep my private life private", I'm pretty sure that I would have taken an even bigger beating - and, quite frankly, rightfully so! lol

@buables Regarding the situation that you described with your husband, that is unfortunate. As a man, I feel confident saying, if you are engaging in extended conversations with a female, and you are omitting any mention of your girlfriend or wife, that is because an attraction exists, and in all probability you are hoping to get closer with that other person. I can't say 100% of the time that a man will carry through with sleeping with that other person, but it's a very slippery slope. The explanation can be dressed up however one would like to dress it up: "change from the norm", "I've been feeling stressed", "she pursued me", etc., etc., but at the end of the day, assuming one's significant other is unaware that this is happening, it's probably being unfaithful to the one that you are with. Sorry again that happened to you, and I hope that things are back on track now. I do think that people can make mistakes and learn from them.

As to whether or not this could be similar to how she's thinking in my scenario, I really don't know. I think anyone becoming bored with their current situation and/or seeking a break from the norm, is often times the stage right before the cheating and/or infidelity starting to occur.

Thanks again for your reply.

What were the gifts @AMelko ?

Yup, like I said @AMelko you will naturally get a hard time on here just because you are male. Some of the replies made me cringe.

That sounds really suss @buables. Guys dont just forget to mention their other halves unless they are up to something.

If guys don't want a hard time on MN ... then there is virtually the whole of the internet for them?