Can someone explain why I should not be honest about how awful my Nex is?

[cato40]

Why is it wrong? Why some horrible people get away with cheating and the other side needs to cover up? My friend who went through her DH cheating 15 years ago was telling me of years of struggles and humiliations, never telling her kids he was a serial cheat until they were adults. Now the kids love their fun and well off dad and don't really care about their mum. If her DD's best friend is cheated on by her boyfriend he is a b*stard but daddy cheating was OK.

Another friend's mum was cheated on but she stayed in the marriage (they are both 70+ different times etc) now her daughter, my friend, begrudges her mum for complaining about the husband/dad and refusing to look after him (both very old and in poor health), plus my friend, who discovered the affair and told her mum many years ago, loves her dad but hates the ex brother in law who cheated on her sister.

My husband cheated and we are divorcing. Why it would be bad of me to be honest and tell the kids about his affair if they will still idolise him in adulthood? Why can't i call a turd a turd? At least for the satisfaction of being open about it and the satisfaction of calling him for what he is? Why cheated on people should owe that respect to cheaters?

There is a fine line between bad mouthing and telling the truth if it’s bad information.

I think you can be informative with the children such as daddy had an affair which means he doesn’t love mummy anymore however he will always love you. They can they take from that what they want but you haven’t painted him to be a bad person (even if you want to)

This has been my experience, as the child of a bitter mother. Kids don't need honesty about adult relationships, they need a safe and unthreatening childhood. They will soon be old enough to ask questions and come to their own conclusions.

My mums 'truth' wasn't objective. If you want a full public airing, then be willing to defend all your own actions too.

This is how I think about it too.

There are age appropriate ways of telling kids.

We have to remember that our kids live in a world with friends with divorced parents and different blended-family set-ups. Kids often know more than we think. So in teen years they'll hear stories about their friends' parents.

When we lie and make everything super rosey, we set our kids up for adult relations with a false idea of what they're like. I don't mean they've been given an age appropriate one, but a complete lie! How about finding out that the relationship you have (or don't) with one of your parents was built on a lie as a way to mess up your adult relationships!

The idea that "he didn't cheat on the kids" is splitting hairs.

He cheated on his partner.

HE destroyed the children's family. HE brought great unhappiness to the children's mother. HE caused all the things that usually happen in divorce that impact the children's lives: less family money, increased stress, LIVING BETWEEN TWO HOMES (who wants to do that?!), often a mother who is now struggling to make ends meet, moving home and sometimes school too.

There's a LOT of impact on the children. So yes, he didn't cheat on them, but he did was actually worse.

And yes, women can cheat too and they then cause all this. Cheating is always a choice. It's a choice not to address relationship unhappiness, or if it's been addressed and still not working, it's a choice not to divorce without the partner being betrayed (whole different divorce situation).

My mother had mouthed my dad, once I'd realised what a ticker he was. However, she then would tell my younger DB "you're just like you're dad". Sometimes it was meant as criticism (fucking mean) and other times it wasn't, but may as well have been.

It's not the age-appropriate facts that are problematic. It's bad-mouthing and the expression of any adult emotions to a child.

*loads of typos from my fat fingers! Apologies!

It seems to me that for many people telling 'daddy has a new girlfriend' is bad mouthing. Why facts are bad mouthing? If people can be open about many forms of trauma why is it right to hide the fact that an ex partner has hurt us very much? As if it is not OK to be hurt by strangers, colleagues, friends but people should take abuse from an ex partner on the chin and hide their suffering to protect their abuser?
Now people will say that cheated on people have their responsibilities, true, but isn't that victim blaming?
Why can't adult children accept and empathise for the abused parent and feel for their trauma? @MorrisZapp didn't you ever empathise or feel for your mum?
It seems to me that after the breakup there is an expectation of martyrdom on the mum (or cheated upon parent) and if they don't comply with the complete self-sacrifice and support of the dysney parent expectation they are labelled bitter, bad-mouthing or bad parents.

Again, infidelity is not a crime. No fault divorces are now the norm. Divorce is statistically far more common in poorer communities. Outcomes for the children of divorced parents are far worse than for those in two parent families.
Why make it worse for the kids? It is a parental problem and bitter partners throwing blame around makes for a difficult childhood.
Accepting the reality of divorce and smoothing the path for children to have regular non judgemental access to both parents has to be the best way forward.

@daretodenim that 100% and then they are celebrated as heroes.
I am the very early stages of divorce but if one day kids will say they don't want to be suitcase children 'sorry your daddy chose tha for all of us', can't buy them expensive trainers or go on holiday 'sorry your dad threw us in a life of poverty' these are facts to me. I wouldn't say 'he is this or that'. Just he chose that for us. How is that bad mouthing?
What if one day they make a poor choice of a painter because mum was ok with that and daddy is a hero?

Oh ‘doggy dance’ I could hug you - you’ve said exactly what I’ve thought for years 👍🏿☘️ Not just intimate legal relationships either - it’s why people generally ‘get away’ with things 👍🏿☘️

Look, I agree that it’s important for kids to know the truth in an age appropriate way but “daddy chose a life of poverty for us” isn’t a fact, it’s bitterness and a failure to take responsibility for your own choices.

Your ex chose to have an affair and to leave for another woman. I understand that divorce causes financial hardship but if you have been left financially vulnerable, that is partly on you unless your ex is not living up to his child support payment responsibilities.

If you can’t afford new shoes now because money is tight after the separation, that’s what you say. And then you get to work figuring out how to get yourself into a better financial position.

@anexcellentwoman I note how people who are unhappy about a situation they and their kids are thrown into are labelled as 'bitter' as they should be happy about it or is something to be ashamed of, ashamed of being mistreated. Again victim blaming. Yes to non judgemental access to both parents, is nonjudgemental equal to hiding sad thruth that one parent had different priorities and the children were not one of that?

my mum was honest about my dad's cheating we were exposed to the lot of it, including bitter comments like the one about our financial positions. won't go into it all here but it has led to difficult lives for me and my brother, brother nearly died through suicide, I've had ongoing mental health problems due to both of my parents not being mature enough to shield me from anything. But sure yeah, you go ahead and make your kids involved and taking sides if it helps your feelings of bitterness. Do you love your kids? Then don't do this to them.

My husband was awful, I never slated him to children. Just gave the facts as they were. We were splitting up as we were unhappy. It was tough as he did talk badly about me. Now I have a very close relationship with my dd and they sporadically see their dad. They can see clear as adults who he is. But that was really tough for them to realise and I wish they could have kept their shiny version of him.

A friend of mine has recently gone through this and I think she has dealt with it well. Her 2 teens know their father has left her for someone else, but she has just presented that to them as a fact of life and not been dramatic about it. Her problems with him as one adult to another, she keeps separate.
She has also had to explain to them that now she is paying for the house and most other costs alone, they will need to cut back on spending. However, she didn't present it as "because of your father, we have no money".
Keep your adult problems between adults and focus on your children's needs. They didn't choose this.

Not true in the case of my DH. Ex-wife had an affair with DH’s best friend and they subsequently married and had two more kids.

He’s never told the kids why they split up and although I suspect oldest knows the youngest probably doesn’t. Because they don’t need to have their views of their Mum skewed by how she behaved in her relationship with someone she married when they were both very young.

Kids are now married adults with their own kids.

Because it’s not about you it’s about your children

age appropriately you can tell them factually and neutrally what happened but not slagging their dad off, not going on about it, not confiding in them like they’re friends and not poisoning them against him. They won’t respect it and it’ll confuse them. It’s not their business just like the rest of your relationship wasn’t really their business.

youre also assuming the reason those kids aren’t close to their mums and are close to their dads is because they didn’t mention the cheating, there is correlation but not necessarily causation here.

Because it’s a different relationship. He children have the right to have their own relationship with their father regardless of the relationship the mother had with him.

“Because it’s not about you it’s about your children

age appropriately you can tell them factually and neutrally what happened but not slagging their dad off, not going on about it, not confiding in them like they’re friends and not poisoning them against him. They won’t respect it and it’ll confuse them. It’s not their business just like the rest of your relationship wasn’t really their business.”

This.

saying things like this would be appalling.

I work with children from separated families. I can see the damage which is done to them, and having a parent who is unable or unwilling to hide their bitterness (that’s what it is) is far more harmful than the separation of their parents in the first place.

My husband was awful, I never slated him to children. Just gave the facts as they were. We were splitting up as we were unhappy. It was tough as he did talk badly about me. Now I have a very close relationship with my dd and they sporadically see their dad. They can see clear as adults who he is. But that was really tough for them to realise and I wish they could have kept their shiny version of him.

Their shiny version of him was ruined by him, not you, and he did that by badmouthing you. Often, the parent who does the badmouthing is the one who sees their relationship with their children suffer in the long run.

Tell your children facts in an age appropriate way WHEN they ask. Don't lie to them.
"Why are you splitting up?'
'Oh it's a long story. Marriage is very complicated. But sometimes it doesn't work out because people grow apart. Both mum and dad said some mean things to each other and eventually dad decided he preferred another woman. So we aren't going to be married any more.'
You need to tread a middle line. Don't tell them how wonderful their dad is. But don't badmouth him either. Just respond rationally and fairly to their honest questions.

We are open about many forms of trauma adult to adult.
But it's not fair to burden your children with your adult emotions in full, that they can't process and don't have the life experience to understand.
If you were terminally ill, you would tell them what was happening in an age appropriate way, you wouldn't make sure they knew you were terrified of dying or suspect the doctors care isn't good enough or whatever. So we shield our children from all kinds of things they are not equipped to handle, not just divorce impact.
So yes, truth matters and they should have it, but the nuanced area is how you deliver that information and just how much of your raw trauma you put upon them. They will see you are sad, naturally, the divorce will have effects that they will feel or notice, but it's the depth and style of the information which is key.
They shouldn't feel they have to take sides to make you happy. They shouldn't have to worry if you will cope or not (ideally), they shouldn't have to feel an expectation to hate their dad, etc etc

I would love my Dad even if I knew that he had been a cheat to my Mum. Why would I give a shit about him having an affair? He is still my Dad, and I still have my relationship with him.

What you seem to be wanting OP, is for children to be made to take 'sides'. You also seem to assume that those children would feel the same way as you about his behaviour. They won't - any more than his Mum and siblings will, or his friends or his new partner will.

Children will simply have the added burden of guilt that they are disappointing their embittered Mum and they will start to hide their feelings from you.

This sounds fair. The kids aren't stupid though so they will know that it's because of their dad. Which it is.

Read what @chemicalworld said. That's why you don't do it.

Some of the worst relationship dynamics I have seen are children who feel sad and sorry for mum. It's incredibly unhealthy to see the people you are supposed to feel secure with and safe be broken and taking the 'child' spot in the family. Only boy children with single sad mums... I've never seen one have a successful relationship afterwards I don't think.

You said about your child getting into a similar relationship. Well, instead of 'daddy plunged us into poverty' how about, 'build your career, be independent, only choose a relationship where you are equal and protect your legal rights. Have a fuck-off fund, maintain your career after children and never trust instead of protecting yourself'.

Take charge, have control, be strong. These are the things your children actually need from a parent. Blame is useless. Both for you and very very especially for them. Wanting to keep that victim role indefinitely is something you might want to talk to someone about. The very luckiest people in the whole world have one successful relationship they stay in. Everyone else has zero, or bereavement. Teaching your children to deal with the loss of break-ups is far more useful than teaching them they have one bad parent. And be careful, because often what they see is one bitter, unhappy parent and they like the other one more anyway.

Slagging off your kids father to them is abuse!! You’re trying to make them have a negative relationship with their father because of something he did to you, not to them! Children not being close with their father has lifelong consequences well into adulthood. What does you being cheated on have to do with his relationship with his kids? You’re very immature OP.