SIL is impossible to get along with

[SILnightmare1989]

I’ve been with my husband for 8 years and me and the wife of one of his brothers have never really got along or been close. The expectation is there for us to be a foursome and always be together but I just couldn’t be like that with her due to the way she would treat me. I’ve tried my best over the past year and we were all spending a lot more time together. Unfortunately the issue’s are still there and I can’t continue to be spoken to badly. It’s all so negative, picking issues with me, making little comments all the time. So I haven’t seen them for a while.

The thing is… do I just leave it and keep avoiding them or do I tell them? I don’t want to cause any issues with the family though. If I thought they would change then I might try to sort it out. I’ve known them both for 8 years and I know they will disagree with my view. My BIL has always been a bit odd with me, picks at me and makes comments but I can’t tell if it’s because the wife doesn’t like me or if it’s both of them. I’m not the first person to fall out with her or my BIL. They have done this to other people in the family and everyone knows what she’s like. My BIL always takes her side and they have both fallen out with other people. The difference with us is my husband and BIL are really close, they own a business together.

I physically cannot stand this woman and really have tried to be friendly with her over the years. Nothing I do, no amount of effort I make is good enough. She does intimidate me a bit and I have not actually raised this issue with her as I don’t want there to be a big argument. It’s ridiculous, I know my husband will back me up this time but she’s got away with it for so long as no one else in the family has stood up to her apart from the couple of people she’s had an issue with. Immediately my BIL took her side and each time, and one of the times it was the other brother and the other time it was the cousins wife. I don’t want another repeat and feel bad for my husband. I know they will say I’ve broken the family up. We all know it’s her that is the issue but they don’t see it like that.

My husband and I don’t have children yet but want to try soon. This worries me as I don’t want to bring a child into this drama. I don’t know how to handle this situation when I know they won’t change their ways. I knew she had an issue with me from the start, it seems to be with other women in the family, like she is jealous or feels threatened by other women, but she has also fallen out with the other brother too, so who even knows.

I’ve heard the stories she’s spun (her side) of why the other woman and cousin don’t speak with them. I therefore know what she will try to say about me. I know she will say I’ve split up the family but actually I’ve realised today that everyone already knows what she’s like. So hopefully they will see the truth.

Ha ha OP, very glad to have helped you brace yourself.

Like all bullies, SiL will crumble when stood up to.
Not in any CONFRONTATION. Just in a "I'm not interested in your bullshit" kind of way.

Practice a few Grey Rock phrases so they are on the tip of your tongue when necessary.

Also - be prepared for an Extinction Burst once she realises that you are no longer tolerating her nasty jibes & are not embarrassed to turn down her social invites. She only invites you to her house & tries to make you stay over so she can indulge herself in territorial nonsense - the petty digs are a dominance display. You need to tell yourself you are not afraid of her, not afraid of awkward, & not afraid to have your mutual dislike out in the open.
www.parentingforbrain.com/extinction-burst/

Basically - what you're going for is 'I don't care to be verbally abused by this woman who happens to be married to DH's brother, & I don't much care who knows it, or who feels awkward about it.'

Remember - everyone in DH's family already knows where the Awkward lives.
They are just enmeshed in a dynamic where everyone tips around it, contorting themselves to avoid any mention of the elephant in the room.
There's nothing wrong with pointing, calmly observing aloud "look! - elephant!" ... & then walking away while the elephant makes a tit of itself.

Don't blame you OP. I never got on with my sister in law although used to rub along ok with her husband, my late husband's brother before they married. She was always picking me up on things and when I was in my early 30s I'd not have the courage to stand up to it. Fortunately they moved away. I'm now re married and my husband has 2 cousins he is very close to (m&f) neither are married and we love their company. Don't see them a lot but when we do we always enjoy it.

Everyone knows those stories, everyone knows she's the common denominator.

If she DOES start on about you, don't accept any feedback from (possibly, but unlikely) well meaning third parties. It's more likely anyone who wants to relay any shit to you is a Flying Monkey.

Grey Rock is your friend again if this happens.
"We've all heard her stories about so many family members, I wasn't interested then, & I'm not interested now she's decided to give me a starring role. Do you want tea or coffee? / Have you seen that new film? / Isn't the weather XYZ?"

It's not you causing the divide though is it? It's them and their shitty behaviour.

Do you think she's trying to engineer a confrontation? This 'you're splitting the family up' is tad dramatic don't you think?
Just don't play her game, as others have said don't engage, just smile and exchange pleasantries. I can't bear one of my relatives but I haven't had a confrontation, I'm polite but move away from them when at family gatherings. I've lots of bland phases I use, refuse to commit to anything 'oh, I might be busy that day, I'll check' then never get back to them. Don't play her game.

That’s one thing we’ve had an issue with is how pushy they are. She will say for example what are you doing today and I feel that I need to make up fake excuses or pretend I’ve got plans. I can’t just say not much or just doing housework because they will then invite us over and they don’t understand that sometimes I don’t want to sit in someone’s house all day/night. It’s so weird.

If I say I’m meeting my sister for example she will ask what time I’m meeting her and what time I’m coming back. If I say I’ve got a hospital appointment she will ask me what time and also what is the appointment for. I was feeling a bit suffocated before but luckily haven’t seen them for the past couple of months. She doesn’t take no for an answer. I could have been at her house for 1 hour or 8 hours. If I say I need to head off now it’s the end of the world. They just don’t want to lose the upper hand. If I say I'm tired she tells me to go up and sleep in their bed it’s just awkward and obsessive.

For two people who clearly don’t like me they act like they are obsessed. I’ve drawn a line and not slept in their bed as that’s just odd, I’ve said for example it’s 11.30 I'm very tired and still need to drive home safely. They just don’t give up it’s so tiring. Do people like this realise what they are doing or are they just people with no healthy boundaries unless it’s something they don’t want to do?

But tbh, you don't have healthy boundaries either, or you wouldn't be putting up with it. Seriously, there is no need. If she asks you to visit, just say you already have a previous engagement - absolutely no need to go into detail. She really isn't the boss of you. You're actually exacerbating the issue by bending to her will. If you stop, what's the absolute worst that can happen? A fall out so you don't have to see them? That's a win, surely. You say your DH and BIL are good friends - if there's a rift it won't be of your making, you just have to let them sort it out for themselves.

As others have said have a few answers ready to go and practice them so they just come naturally.
What are you doing today? You - Busy, can't talk. Then don't reply again.
Come round today. You - can't I'm out. I've got a project I promised myself I'd finish.

Or if you want my answer it's No, because I don't want to.

so she says
"when are you meeting your sister" you say "why?" or "not sure" or ignore it
same for everything else

But at some point you are going to have to just say "no, i don't want to". The sooner the better

If I say I’m meeting my sister for example she will ask what time I’m meeting her and what time I’m coming back.
"Eh? I dunno, when I get there, & when we decide to leave. Gotta dash, byeeee"

If I say I’ve got a hospital appointment she will ask me what time and also what is the appointment for.
"Can't remember, a medical issue, gotta dash, byeee"

I was feeling a bit suffocated before but luckily haven’t seen them for the past couple of months.
What do you mean - luckily? You have to start making your own luck in this department OP. Avoid, ignore, decline.

She doesn’t take no for an answer.
"SiL, I said NO. I meant NO. It's not up for discussion, gotta dash, byeee"

I could have been at her house for 1 hour or 8 hours. If I say I need to head off now it’s the end of the world. They just don’t want to lose the upper hand. If I say I'm tired she tells me to go up and sleep in their bed it’s just awkward and obsessive.
Stop going to her house. She's mad. Probably a personality disorder. Doesn't matter WTF is wrong with her - all that matters is you avoid her.
At a pinch, you might attend a larger family event at hers. But only if you are surrounded by others, & stay sober with your getaway vehicle on hand.

Brilliant responses 😀 You should run training courses!

Yes!!!! Haha or write a book 📚 thank you such helpful tips 🙏👍

Ha ha OP & @Oblahdeeoblahdoe thank you

It's nowt more than 6 decades of hard-won experience. Much of it dealing with personality disordered individuals.

Channel your inner Helen Mirren. When interviewed in her later life, she was asked what her biggest regret was.
"Not telling more people to fuck off" was her gem of a response.

Also - this book is golden -
www.amazon.co.uk/Woman-Your-Own-Right-Assertiveness/dp/0704334208

@SILnightmare1989

She sounds like my Stepmum.

I honestly thinking what I am going to do when baby born now as don't want her to visit.

It's like you shouldn't have to answer to her and having to explain what your appointments are for.

Now my dad and stepmum moved quite far away. I am glad I don't see her.

You just need to cut ties as people this not good for your mental health.

Just be careful she can manipulate people to believe anything.

Just keep your distance.

Keep busy

@SILnightmare1989

I already got out of visiting them when they was at this hotel for 2 days. I did see my dad and brother but thank god I avoided her.

It's so hard with these type of people have you go crazy.

I have this exact same issue with both my SILs, I told my DH in May I was having nothing to do with them anymore and haven't been to a family event since. He goes alone and I get a lovely day to myself to do whatever I want and I don't have their toxic fuckery in my life, it's bliss, you should try it. If he wants to have a relationship with them theyre his family and he can crack on but you don't need to put up with people treating you badly regardless of who they're related to 💐

www.mindtools.com/pages/article/Assertiveness.htm

I think you could benefit from assertiveness training.
Your SIL and BIL sound toxic.
Whats your communication like with your husband, as surely he wouldnt want you to feel this got at?
If he has seen it, but still wants you to be friends, then thats really unfair.

Just read some of your other posts, I never give excuses, I just say I'm busy and ignore any other communication.

My husband tried not to cause any issues previously but obviously if she had said something bad in front of him he would have stood up for me. The issue was she would always get me alone. More recently we’ve all been together and he’s seen it with his own eyes both from her and his brother. Trouble is it’s gone on so long without me bringing it up it’s probably too late to sort it out now. Probably best to just distance myself. He will stand up for me if they try to say anything or try to turn him against me. I will leave him to handle it unless they approach me, in that case I will tell them the truth. Obviously if they start disrespecting me or raising their voice I will just stay calm and then walk off.

Some great practical advice from @KettrickenSmiled.

I would consider holding off on TTC while this continues.

I have read what I think may be a previous posts from you as they read as identical, and I do think it is strange that this has gone on for 8 years and your husband has never been involved.

8 years is a LONG time for you to have suffered this behaviour.

Drama in families is tedious.

I think assertiveness training would be very good for you.

Your husband knows his brother is unkind to you, yet they remain very close?

This is not normal nor loyal IMO, but I understand that some people don't place the value on these things that others do.

Would you be very close to someone who treated your husband similarly?

If not, why not?

It is important when you have children to feel supported and part of a team.

You really deserve better than this.

They are just nasty bullies.

Sadly there are a lot of women that like nothing more than having their other half all to themselves. Call it jealousy, or some other unknown reason, but sadly it is fairly common amongst families.

There is also absolutely nothing you can do about it, because whatever you say, no matter how good your intentions are, everything that is said will be twisted and taken out of context. Unless there comes a day when your bil wakes up and realises for himself then nothing you do or say will change the situation for the better.

Does she have any brothers? I have often found the situation that you are describing more common amongst women with no brothers themselves. It is like they don't understand or respect the dynamics of the male sibling relationship, and they place utterly no importance on it atol.

Sadly my dp has not seen his brother for over a year due to having a sil exactly like yours. At least for you it has not reached that stage yet. Sil insisted they marry during lockdown because she wanted no one else there. Very sad, but unfortunately a situation that is becoming increasingly common nowadays.

It's about time your husband stepped up and had a word with the pair of them and put you first. He has seen their behaviour first hand, he needs to tell them he doesn't like the way they treat you and won't stand for it any longer any any continuation of the behaviour will result in him dealing with his brother on a business level only.
When they try to deny any wrong doing which they undoubtedly will say "actually we know it's you and not us as ...... has also had the same issues with you" then list every other person they have fallen out with or who has had issues with them.

If they say anything in future just laugh at it, and learn some good come backs, even if “oh I’m sorry but that’s so funny / odd to say that” “you’re joking right” “oh you do come out with some right one liners”.

People like this often do it to upset others, it’s just how they get their kicks. They’ll probably never stop, so ignore them or train yourself some emotional defence.

don’t not have kids because of them, good luck!

She sounds like: a narcissist
control freak
jealous
insecure
and bitter person. Practice some pertinent phrases. “ lm sorry you feel that way”
” l prefer to keep that private “
etc. Stop giving her control over your life and she will lose her power. Remain polite and practice your FOAD face ( F off and die) whilst smiling benignly 😁