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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Just can’t decide what to do

40 replies

wishihadcake · 12/11/2022 15:00

My marriage is really not great. We have a five year old. H does v little with him. He’s often angry, moody, controlling, critical. Very grumpy & joy spongey. Workaholic. I do almost everything at home & with our child. The spark is gone (for me anyway). We briefly tried counselling ages ago. He won’t go back. I’ve raised issues many times & things improve briefly then not. My tactic now is to disengage as much as I can, & make plans for me & my child without involving him & not to rely on him for affection/self esteem/ anything really. This is all pointing in one direction I know BUT our child adores him, & the idea of ending it makes me feel like a homewrecker. And he has been trying recently to do better. (I don’t think it is working but he is trying.) And I have not been perfect, can be v snappy as I regularly feel at the end of my tether. Should I re-engage, open up again (feel I have closed off my heart in self defence) & try to save things? It feels like most of the effort would be mine. But it might be worth it.

OP posts:
moistmingemist · 12/11/2022 15:18

I think it's worth one last try. I was in your situation years ago and stayed until I knew in my heart I'd tried everything so that if my children ever asked why then I could say we tried and it didn't work, for me it wasn't enough.

I stayed unhappily married for a total of 11 years, we separated amicably and shared care initially. I've been with DH2 for 21 years now.

Do what's right for you x

crochetandacuppa · 12/11/2022 15:25

I’d really recommend you both listen to Terry Real’s Fierce Intimacy. It’s an incredible resource for how to communicate in a relationship, which it sounds like there are issues around here.

wishihadcake · 12/11/2022 19:26

Thank you @crochetandacuppa and @moistmingemist
Can I ask @moistmingemist when you separated? Another issue for me is I had my child late so can’t see myself having another chance after this.
I also worry I am just delaying & that I have tried over the past few years.

OP posts:
moistmingemist · 12/11/2022 19:48

I'm not sure I understand your question but ...

Got married, had first child by third year of marriage. Got unexpectedly pregnant with second child in fourth year of marriage and he was born and I had PND. It took a while but I realised part of the PND was due to me fee,img trapped and being unhappy.

From then on I stayed for the DC. We had a trial separation but I couldn't live without my DC for half the time. Got back together and went to counselling, helped for a while but I knew I wouldn't stay. It was a matter of me reconciling my desire to leave with trying my best for the DC. In the end the day came and I was ready, he was expecting it. He'd have stayed married for the DC but I couldn't live a lie.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 12/11/2022 19:49

You've tried already and apart from anything else your son is also witness to this. He will pick up on all the vibes here, both spoken and unspoken, between you and his dad.

You only need to give your own self permission to leave and there is nothing to rescue and or save here. While it’s normal to want to help someone you love, there is no way to ‘save’ or ‘fix’ another person. Ultimately, all we can control are our own actions and attitudes. You should not act as some sort of rehab centre for such a badly raised man.

Abuse is not a relationship problem.

Abuse is also not about communication or a perceived lack of, its about power and control. He wants absolute here over you and your son.

Make plans to leave going forward; your marriage is over anyway because of the abuse he metes out to both you and in turn your son.

What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?
What do you want to teach your child about relationships and what is he learning here?. This is absolutely no relationship model for him to be learning from; he could potentially become as abusive as his own father if you were to stay.

Why do you think your son adores him?. I would think he fears him almost as much, if not more, as you do. He is certainly learning from you to be both quiet, compliant and subservient in his dad's presence.

I would urge you to contact both Womens Aid and the Rights of Women asap as the latter can give some legal advice. Enrolling yourself onto the Freedom Programme would also benefit you.

wishihadcake · 12/11/2022 20:37

I’m so sorry about the PND @moistmingemist, & it must have been really hard making a decision while getting over that. I think I am where you were; trying to find a path between my desire to leave and wanting to do my best for my son. @AttilaTheMeerkat thank you too. I do see that maybe doing the best for my son might mean leaving. I just wish I was sure of that but I guess it is impossible to be sure about anything like this.

OP posts:
wishihadcake · 12/11/2022 20:39

Oh also I did talk to Womens Aid who were very helpful. I am meeting a lawyer to find out my options. But I have to decide what I want to actually do & I am finding that hard.
I grew up watching a relationship where one person was compliant and quiet so I try not to let my child see that. But I worry I am actually too snappy instead of too quiet.

OP posts:
CantFindTheBeat · 12/11/2022 20:46

There sounds like a lot has/is going on, OP.

Generally, if you've got to the stage you have, with legal advice etc, it's for a good reason.

Could you elaborate a bit more on his behaviour/how he's trying?

CantFindTheBeat · 12/11/2022 20:47

Pressed send too soon.

And what would you realistically like to happen?

wishihadcake · 12/11/2022 21:09

So I guess it has been hard for a long time. We had counselling 3 years ago. Things were v hard during the lockdowns but I wanted to wait rather than do anything drastic at a time when everything around was so hard.
I was clear until the summer that I wasn’t happy. But since then I have sort of disengaged as can’t deal with the drama and it was upsetting me too much too. I don’t know if that’s why he’s trying more. He seems to be offering to help more (although it’s still hardly anything) and will sometimes come and give me a hug which hasn’t been happening in a long time. He suggested we go for a day out as a family recently which again is v unusual. He also has thanked me for things I’ve done (previously he just assumed I would do everything). He seems to also be making more of an effort with our son. But again it’s a question of spending half an hour with him on a Saturday while I have him the rest of the weekend. And that just feels like so little that I resent having to be impressed and grateful.

OP posts:
wishihadcake · 13/11/2022 09:35

Sorry should have tagged @CantFindTheBeat in my reply above.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 13/11/2022 09:49

Seems like your H has sensed you have detached and pulled away.

Indifference is the opposite of love and you have reached that point

Why do you think you need to be grateful/appreciative of him doing the bare minimum with his son? TBH he will likely build a relationship with his son if you separate as he'll be needing to look after him EOW or similar.

Flowers
CantFindTheBeat · 13/11/2022 11:59

I kind of agree with @RandomMess, OP.

Once you've reached the stage of indifference, it tends to mean there is no going back.

You seem to have a spent a lot of years trying to fix things.

Could be time to start a new life where you have an option to at some point meet someone genuinely special.

layladomino · 13/11/2022 12:15

Based on your description of your husband it's hard to see how your DC can adore him. He's snappy, irritable, not very interested in them, a joy sponge etc etc.

Worse still, if they DO actually adore him, do you want them growing up adoring with someone with those characteristics? They could well transfer them in to adult relationships and end up marrying someone just like your DH.

wishihadcake · 13/11/2022 15:25

Thank you.
@RandomMess I don’t feel I have to be grateful…but feel he thinks I should! (Which is itself a problem I think.)
@CantFindTheBeat Yes I think maybe it might be time.
@layladomino i hadn’t thought of it that way but you’re right; I don’t want my son thinking this is a good way to be.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 13/11/2022 15:28

Sounds like your DS is grateful and excited at the breadcrumbs of interest Daddy shows him Sad

wishihadcake · 13/11/2022 18:14

Ugh you may be right @RandomMess

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wishihadcake · 03/12/2022 17:16

Just coming back to say thanks for the advice @AttilaTheMeerkat @CantFindTheBeat @RandomMess @crochetandacuppa @layladomino
I did talk to Women’s Aid who were very helpful & said my situation (which I went into more detail with them about) was “horrible”. I started making an exit plan. But my husband is now making big efforts (I don’t know if he has guessed or if it’s because I have disengaged even more or because a family member told him he should step up…his side of the family not mine). It’s still not great. At all. But I am now feeling so stressed because it is so much better & I keep getting glimpses of how it could have been all along & then feeling like it could be like this in the future but I’d need to recommit & I don’t know if I have it in me (or if I want to). Now feel if I pull the plug I will be the bad guy. But maybe I shouldn’t care about that.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 03/12/2022 17:26

It's in the abusers handbook, he's hovering you back in.

Watchkeys · 03/12/2022 17:35

How will you know when you've tried enough times?

wishihadcake · 03/12/2022 20:33

Thank you. Good question.
I suppose not wanting to be the bad guy is part of what got me into this situation in the first place.

OP posts:
layladomino · 04/12/2022 08:24

This is all part of his plan. He hasn't changed. He's being strategically 'nice' to keep you in place.

You won't ever regret leaving him.

And you won't be the bad guy. Anyone who knows the situation will know that. And anyone who thinks you are the bad guy - so what? You'll be too busy living a happy life to care. (Have been there. It's surprising how little it bothers you once you're out!)

wishihadcake · 04/12/2022 21:01

Thanks @layladomino its good to have the perspective from over the other side of what feels an impossible mountain.

OP posts:
wishihadcake · 02/08/2023 18:57

Reviving my own ancient thread & I am still here. After this good advice I saw a lawyer, made a plan & told my husband. But he begged me for another go. We have been in couples counselling for about six months. Lots has changed on a day to day level. He is doing more with our son, being more present, making vast efforts to be in less of a black cloud mood, listening, apologising, being more affectionate. But it doesn’t feel like a marriage I can stay in. There’s still a lot of selfishness, a chilling lack of empathy, gaslighting, controlling behaviours, no sex or physical affection (though he’d like the latter…doesn’t seem interested in the former & hasn’t been since I got pregnant 7 years ago), & I am still having to contort myself around his routines & needs & moods. The counsellor keeps pointing to the changes & I feel like she’s saying I should be happy. I am not perfect either but feel this relationship is turning me into a less nice person than I was or would like to be! I do now want to end it, after the summer I think, but am totally overwhelmed by how to actually do it…if he says no again, do I just say “well it’s happening”? What happens if he just doesn’t get a lawyer? What do I do about getting him to agree on what to say to our child? (Even in this new supposedly better situation he has said things to him like “Daddy’s not invited to xxx” when the truth is I am taking our son to see a friend & her child, he WAS invited but has always refused & been uninterested in those sort of days out & had said he wanted to work & also to be honest I wanted to catch up with my friend! But to be fair, if he’d said he wanted to come I’d have been ok with it. But he didn’t…& is lying about it to our child.) Do we all live together while it’s going on? (We have a spare room someone could go into, which I know is v lucky.) I’ve been told it may take a year which feels impossibly long.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 02/08/2023 19:18

It's straightforward. You go see the lawyer again, get the paperwork in motion.

Tell him at counselling that you are done. You have tried for the last 6th months but you no longer love him it's been too little too late and we need to use future sessions to agree co-parenting.

Then get the divorce petition served.

You can now see why counselling is not recommended when one partner is abusive.

Don't get into a discussion about him not agreeing to divorce Hmm "I'm very unhappy we will be divorcing and I would rather we were both adults and agreed co-parenting and finances without wasting huge amounts of money on solicitors".

Note he will try and bully, threaten and coerce you into a crap financial settlement and taking DS away.

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