How to disagree fairly in front of children

[blueberry23]

We have a nearly two year old and another on the way.

90% of the time our marriage is fantastic

But thank 10% it's not is starting to become a deal breaker for me.

We seem to be incapable of disagreeing without my DH becoming angry - raising his voice, and calling me names. Tonight in front of our child he called me an idiot and stupid. He also swears.

I'm just at my wits end. He's now stonewalling me (another terrible habit of his) and refusing to discuss and resolve so this will now flood over in to the weekend as I never feel we discuss or resolve anything, he just gives me the silent treatment for a while and I pretend to just get on as normal until he comes out of his mood.

I never raise my voice, I don't swear or call names. I grew up in a household like that and I would never do that when my children are around.

If I can manage to hold my temper why can't he? He's refusing to have anger management as he's saying it's not very often, he doesn't shout really loud or throw things, so he doesn't believe his bad habits require any outside help.

He says I'm passive aggressive but i fail to understand why he thinks this. I believe I just stay calm and refuse to engage in raised voices etc.

His lack of understanding the importance of our child and unborn child not being around him swearing and calling me names is starting to push me away.

Any ideas on how to deal with this? This is not a LTB situation. We have a really content and happy home but I want us to be able to disagree in a healthy way.

What does he think of your conflict resolution style, as a couple?

@Watchkeys no idea to be honest. I know he thinks it's unhealthy but I'm pretty sure he would say it's all my fault.

"This is not a LTB situation. We have a really content and happy home".

Hmm,

"We seem to be incapable of disagreeing without my DH becoming angry - raising his voice, and calling me names. Tonight in front of our child he called me an idiot and stupid. He also swears".

To talk to you like that and in front if your children is totally and completely unacceptable . Much more information is needed.

You have a two year old and another on the way. Is your new pregnancy planned? Is your husband on board and planned with you prior , the new pregnancy?

"I grew up in a household like that and I would never do that when my children are around".

But you currently are and that is being allowed in your household.

"He says I'm passive aggressive".

Are you?

@CallmeCath

Yes very much planned second pregnancy. Both fully on board with the decision.

Yes i know im allowing it around my child. I keep hoping that it will change as our child gets older and my DH sees that he's understanding more he will see the error of his ways and learn to control his temper.

I don't know if I'm passive aggressive or if he's gaslighting me in to wondering if I am. I think I'm emotional more than anything, I tend to recoil when he shouts and lower my voice totally as I refuse to be drawn in to a shouting match. Maybe that winds him up more. I grew up in a really volatile house so any type of confrontation makes me want to vomit and run away. I definitely don't try to antagonise him. I just want the conflict resolved quickly and calmly.

Why do you think this is not some LTB situation?. You have a happy and content home, well on the surface anyway, but this lies beneath and its a constant presence. He is volatile and you're probably walking on eggshells in some vain attempt to not set him off. And how did you arrive at a 90% content figure anyway; it's been merely plucked from thin air.

You grew up in a household not too dissimilar to what you are describing. We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents, what did yours teach you. Are your parents still together?. It is of no real surprise that you have subconsciously chosen what was already familiar to you. No-one ever bothered to show you what a mutually respectful relationship is and the fact is that you still do not know what that is - this relationship is not it.

Abuse is not about communication or a perceived lack of, it's about power and control and this man wants absolute here over you and in turn your kids. He does not talk to work colleagues like this does he nor to people in the outside world; my guess is he's all sweetness and light to them. It is for you, his wife, this is directed at. He is also very much in denial and thinks that abuse is just physical. Abuse comes in many guises and he is not above stonewalling you either. He's telling you that you do not matter.

AM courses are of no benefit whatsoever when it comes to domestic violence. He has a problem with anger, YOUR anger, when you rightly call him out on his unreasonable behaviour. Conflict became destructive and continuous. Your partner insults you, blames you and criticizes you when you don’t do what they want. When you show signs of independence or objection to this treatment, the response might be a tirade of offensive comments, public humiliation, physical or emotional withdrawal in the form of the silent treatment. Your partner might cry and scream or act in a physically intimidating way, they may undermine your hobbies, interests and opinions or speak offensively about people or things that are important to you. They can zone into areas of weakness with the sole intention of hurting you and this is very much reflected in their words and behaviour. Following conflict, your partner might convince you that you’re at fault because you made them angry or you failed in some other way. They could promise never to act in the way they had done if they think you might leave. For a short while, you might be convinced of it, till it starts again. The nice/nasty cycle of abuse here is really a continuous one.

He is behaving abusively towards you and abuse often ramps up when the woman is pregnant as you now are. There is verbal abuse and in addition your child is directly hearing you being called foul names from his/her dad. It could be a matter of time before your son/daughter is acting like his father is and using that same tone of voice on you.

Know that you are not at fault and a relationship with an abusive partner will only lead to more misery and feelings of worthlessness. In that place, you can’t love anyone properly, much less yourself. It is not easy to leave and he won't make that process of leaving him at all easy for you as another form of punishment People stay in abusive relationships for many reasons; not least of all fear of their abuser and fear of the unknown but it can be done.

Thank you for your advice @AttilaTheMeerkat

What do you suggest I do to try to improve things? I certainly won't be leaving my DH without trying everything I can to improve this situation.

Couples therapy to examine your arguing styles?

A few years ago DH and I went on a marriage course which really helped us to improve our communication. Maybe consider the same, or couples counselling?

@Lavendersummer that could be a good idea.

I wonder if they do this sort of thing online. It would be a nightmare to find childcare to have an evening out once a week to see a therapist!

@Chomolungma I think it's a great idea.

I have this feeling that if we go to marriage counselling it's admitting our marriage has failed. I probably just need to get over that tbh!

This makes it sound like an experiment, hoping your DH sees his actions having negative consequences on your DC and then changing?

You just can't allow this. It will imprint upon your DC forever. One of my brothers is very dysfunctional as a result of growing up in a household with rowing. He grew up seeing the kind of behaviours he now models as normal.

"I grew up in a really volatile house so any type of confrontation makes me want to vomit and run away".

Those who create conflict (your now H) always take advantage of the conflict averse (you). Seeking conflict is as bad as avoiding it entirely; a healthy relationship is having the confidence to speak up when you really need to. Going forward I would urge you to get therapy to address this issue that haunts you still.

You have a choice re this man, your children do not. Do not make them grow up in such a household like you did. Sadly no-one bothered with you but the onus is very much on you now to ensure that your kids are not grossly affected by what they are seeing and hearing within their home. Their home is not their sanctuary and its not their fault either their dad has decided to embark on his own private based war against you. Such men hate women, all of them.

@jevoudrais so should I break up an otherwise happy marriage, whilst pregnant?

It just feels impossible. And it's not what I want, either.

I don't think he believes me when I say that I won't and can't have this around my children. Probably because I have continue to allow it to happen.

Perhaps I ask him to move out while I decide what to do. The thought of it just makes me so sad!

@AttilaTheMeerkat I felt like what you were saying had some gravitas until that last
sentence.

My DH does not hate all women.....

Ok - fair enough we're all saying LTB.

What happens when they split and it's shared custody time? If he has the child 50% of the time? Would you be OK with that, OP?

Couples counselling is NOT recommended where there is abuse of any type within the relationship.

DO you think that such a man would actually sit in front of a counsellor?. Its veyr unlikely because he feels entitled to speak to you like this and he also feels he is doing nothing wrong. In his head you drove him to it.

There is NOTHING you can do to improve the situation for you within this household because he will never co-operate with you. Abuse is NOT a relationship problem. You cannot fall down that self same rabbit hole your parents did. Look at the effects your parents marriage had on you; you're completely conflict averse and freeze up inside. Its traumatised you.

How do you know he does not hate all women?. What is that thought based on. A genuine question BTW.

These men can appear to be quite plausible to those in the outside world and I would think your H behaves quite differently to those men and women outside the home.

I would never ever let my son live in a home where I'm called stupid etc. I would put him first. These kind of things will have a big effect on how he treats partners etc in the future. Does he call his boss, friends idiot, stupid etc? I doubt it

My partner has a tendency to behave like this. It is extremely difficult to contend with, but over the years has improved because I’ve taken a zero-tolerance approach to certain things (eg name-calling). That meant chucking him out for a while. We also have done a lot of marriage counselling/talking. Loads. It took a while to convince him that it wasn’t ok, because to him behaving like that was normal - it’s what he grew up with. Change has only been possible because my DP is self-aware and open to his flaws (when he’s not angry!). So now we can disagree and he might get angry, but he doesn’t cross my red lines.

Yeah...wait until he finds himself smashing the kids toys to pieces against a wall. He'll still say he doesn't have a problem. 😐

"One of the basic human rights he takes away from you is the right to be angry with him. No matter how badly he treats you, he believes that your voice shouldn’t rise and your blood shouldn’t boil. The privilege of rage is reserved for him alone. When your anger does jump out of you—as will happen to any abused woman from time to time—he is likely to try to jam it back down your throat as quickly as he can. Then he uses your anger against you to prove what an irrational person you are. Abuse can make you feel straitjacketed. You may develop physical or emotional reactions to swallowing your anger, such as depression, nightmares, emotional numbing, or eating and sleeping problems, which your partner may use as an excuse to belittle you further or make you feel crazy.”
― Lundy Bancroft, Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men

"“The symptoms of abuse are there, and the woman usually sees them: the escalating frequency of put-downs. Early generosity turning more and more to selfishness. Verbal explosions when he is irritated or when he doesn’t get his way. Her grievances constantly turned around on her, so that everything is her own fault. His growing attitude that he knows what is good for her better than she does. And, in many relationships, a mounting sense of fear or intimidation. But the woman also sees that her partner is a human being who can be caring and affectionate at times, and she loves him. She wants to figure out why he gets so upset, so that she can help him break his pattern of ups and downs. She gets drawn into the complexities of his inner world, trying to uncover clues, moving pieces around in an attempt to solve an elaborate puzzle.”
― Lundy Bancroft, Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men

This is from a book I would urge you to read asap.

Right, well if he's calling you names and you can't talk to him about why that's wrong, that's abusive on two levels; firstly the name calling, and secondly the disregard of his own responsibility for his own behaviour.

Do you think it's your fault that he calls you names? Do you think it's in any way acceptable, even without the 'kids observing' factor?

@Schmoozey this is really helpful thank you. I think this is what I need to do. He's not taking me seriously as it always just gets swept under the carpet I think

I warned him tonight that if he ever swears at me or calls me names in front of our child again he will be asked to pack a bag and leave.

He roebuttled that with - I'm not going anywhere, you can leave.

But I will stand strong to my word this time.

Btw I feel that my DPs behaviour was abusive in some ways. But I chose to stay because I felt confident I could hold onto my red lines and he was demonstrably open to change. I don’t have the feeling your DP is.

If he doesn't know how to respect her, it's not a good idea to advise her to train him.