Ex husband refusing to have Christmas every other year despite 13 year old dd saying that is what she would like to do.

[Keeptbreathing]

My ex husband and I have been divorced 5 years now, we share 3 children 18ds 16ds and 13dd. Until recently we have had 50/50 care until eldest went to university, 16 year old decided they wanted to go wherever week to week depending on college etc and my 13 year old dd wanted to stop 50/50 and go to her dad's every other weekend.

She is an anxious child who benefits from having someone available to talk through her worries and just feel supported, she didn't feel she got that from her dad. He didn't take this well.

Just trying to give some back story before I get to the point. Anyway up till this year we shared Christmas day and split the day in half. I hated it, kids hated it never being in one place. Last year when we swapped he suggested we switch to every other year as it was too stressful and not fair on everybody. I was happy with this and was supposed to have them this year all day for the first time.

A couple of weeks ago he text to say he had changed his mind, didn't feel it was fair on him. I said I wasn't happy, asked the kids what they wanted to do, older two wasn't too fussed but 13 year clearly said they wanted to stay in one place. She told him that and I thought that was that. Now he has got his partner to talk to her to tell her how sad he is, how much it's upset him. She now feel like she has to go to his to make him happy.

I'm not happy, I don't feel like he has respected her choices. I haven't said anything to him yet as I don't want dd to feel even more torn in two.

Any advice on how to handle this going forward, he isn't a reasonable person and behaves like a child when he doesn't get his own way. He never believes he's in the wrong!

Sorry it's long 😆

Say its up to the 13 year old what she wants to do. Encourage her to be firm with what she wants to do.

Or give in this year but let your youngest be “ill” when she has to leave for her dads.

Then spend the year helping your Dd feel confident enough to be able to state her feelings to her dad next year. Not an ideal solution I admit, but if you are between a rock and a hard place, you just need a solution that works for you.

"This way, letting the children choose each year, surely must be the best."

As the child of separated parents, no, letting the children choose is absolutely not the best. There's a huge amount of guilt when you feel you have to choose between your parents. Having a fixed arrangement, such as alternating years, which is fair, makes it much much easier for the child. It did for me - and still does actually, as an adult.

If you can possibly afford it, get your dd some MH support. or try a children's charity that offers that kind of thing. It'll help her with her self-confidence and help her find her voice. She's going to need this to help build her up through his manipulation, which won't end when she's grown up if she wants to keep a relationship with him then.

She needs an outside person to talk things over with, someone she isn't trying to please. (I know you're doing your best for her and have her interests at heart, but there's always going to be that element of her not wanting to hurt your feelings either.)

I hear your argument Op-but just thinking about it from his point of view-he already sees the kids less than was originally planned. He is probably upset that he doesn't have a great relationship with the 13 year old (it's difficult at that age anyway and he doesn't now get much chance to build one if she is only there every other weekend). It's probably reasonable that he is upset about Christmas-and his girlfriend is probably upset for him, hence the conversation (which might have been a throw away thing for all we know-people here are taking it as some Intense bullying conversation-and we don't really know).

Im not sure he should be labelled a twat and abusive for wanting to see his kids at Christmas really?

The payment thing is a red herring as op has said-it was 50/50 care so no payment needed until now in which case get a solicitor to draft something fair up I guess.

Look, Christmas is always tricky. Every other year is standard or what we do and you used to do-Christmas eve and most of the day at one house, Christmas Day night at the other. That's reasonable.

It's just a day isn't it-not the whole season and maybe its better to see it as such-takes the heat out of it-plus the kids here are not little anymore-no one is missing out on any 'magic' etc...

I disagree re letting the 13 year old decide. My two DD's would at various points have chosen not to do stuff with their Dad. Hormones, laziness, they didn't like his girlfriend loads, whatever reason...I never brooked any argument about it-he's their Dad, they need to spend time with him and it might be great, good or less than ideal-as it is in all families-but that's normal life and they need to experience it with him as they do with me (as much as I missed them and obviously would sooner have them with me all the time). He was a twat to me but not to them and it's important that they respect him as their other parent.
The only exception to that is if there is some sort of safeguarding concern-but there doesn't seem to be here?

This is perfect.

Well your ex is making it all about what he wants for Christmas and the partner needs to back off. I like what @supercamp said.

Can’t she stay with you Xmas day and go to his on Boxing Day? And then reverse it next year.

'Dh, myself and the children have made plans based on your proposal to take Christmas Day in turns. As you stated, the children are with me this year and will be available on Boxing Day for you. Dd and all the ch are happy with that arrangement and any attempt the change that will be ignored. The ch are all excited about the more chilled approach to Christmas, please get behind your idea'

This.

Unless he can physically pick her up to carry her to his home then like the older kids she can do she wants.

Your daughter has made her feelings very clear, stop putting her in the position of having to make decisions that hurt people and bring on he anxiety. When ex wants to 'hear it from her' tell him to fuck off, his behaviour has already led to him getting less time with her, he risks no contact if he continues to bully her to get his way. You risk huge therapy bills if you don't stand up for her and stop making her an equal - she is a child and should not be in a position of making these decisions herself.

As for exes partner, I'd tell him and her that if she treats your daughter like that again then contact will be pulled. Utterly unacceptable, I'd be totally furious.

Vagina up and defend your daughter.

Definitely be firm and stick to taking turns each year. From my own experience, my mum and dad split up when I was 7 and the agreement was we saw my dad on Christmas Eve and stayed with mum on Christmas day, the last thing I would of wanted is to of been dragged away from my toys to go elsewhere, and so this arrangement was good for us kids as we were in one place and I have very good memories now of my childhood on Christmas day. This is obviously the case for your DD, you don't want her resenting Christmas day as she gets older and not having the best memories of it if she is having to move about and not be able to enjoy her presents.

@AnotherEmma completely agree with you about not letting the kids choose. When my mum and dad split when I was 7 (my sister was 9 and brother was 3), we weren't involved in the decision. My mum and dad agreed we saw my dad on Christmas eve and spent Christmas day with my mum. We were happy with this arrangement and never questioned it. Probably because we got to stay at home and enjoy our toys!

Fully agree with all those saying this is emotional abuse. He's trying to manipulate and guilt trip her into doing what he wants. I have lots of experience of this from my ex. You need to support her to stand up to him - she's old enough to decide for herself.

Just do what you want and ignore him?
Try to help your daughter build her resilience. xx

I have read all your messages thankyou, some harsh but probably fair. I need to stand up for her. I've been trying to figure out how to do this to cause her the least amount of upset!

To touch on this post, we went 50/50 as that seemed fair to everyone at the time. They're older now and she doesn't want this. I haven't said he's a terrible dad but he is emotional intelligence is severely lacking, unless it's about him of course. It's hard to have a reasonable conversation with him, he tries to make things as difficult as possible where as I've always tried to be reasonable for the kids sakes but I'm tired of it.

Talking about child maintenance, he's self employed, already fiddles his accounts to pay far less tax. Earns twice as much as me as but makes sure we both pay 50/50 right down to the last pound. I've had him asking me to transfer £5 into his account before just to show how petty he is 🙄

He does live in a big enough house, his partner has two children and they have one together. Lots of kids involved!

Exactly this.

You find out what she truly wants. Then that's that.

I would turn it around on him and say that he can have all the DC's this year, but understand that they are with you next year!

Christmas day is just a date in December. I have very happy memories of my children's Christmases, and so do they. They feel that they had three Christmas days. The first a week or ten days before, when we spent it with my parents and brother and his wife and their kids, and Saturday was Christmas eve and Sunday was Christmas day. The second was just us, at home, and the 3rd was Boxing Day at my husband's parents , with his siblings and their families.
If you end up having to back down, I would let her go for the day, and save "Christmas Day" for Boxing Day.

Christmas falls beautifully this year. Do a Christmas Eve supper, with presents, and then a lovely Christmas morning brunch with stockings etc. Then he can collect them all and have them for the rest of the day.

You are talking about a 13 year old not a 7 year old.

The family courts make it very clear that a 7 year old doesn't have a child but a 13 year old does.

"choice" rather.

I don't even know why you are debating this with him. She doesn't want to go. That should be the end of it as she is 13.

My DS decided he wanted to be at home with me more as a teenager (aka in his room where he had his computer etc or with his friends more!). And that was that. There was no way I was forcing him to do anything he didn't want to do regardless if his dad's views.

Just support her decision with her dad and talk to her about her dad's behaviour which is emotional blackmail. She needs to learn not to give into this (even when you love someone) and how she can do that.

She's old enough to decide.
She doesn't want to go.
The only reason he wanted to hear it from her was to guilt trip and manipulate a vulnerable young girl.
Take it out of her hands and tell your ex to fuck off.
You and the DC don't have to pander to him at all.