Is it over?

[10thingsihateaboutyou]

I am feeling so so sad right now. I'm on a break from work and don't remember when I last felt so deflated. Not crying or anything, I almost feel too sad to cry, if that makes sense.

My DH of 5 years and I have been fighting and bickering regularly for the last few years. We have two DS, 2 and 4. So really since my youngest was born.

The main issue is that our communication is crap. My DH talks down to me, constantly pointing out that I have left the kitchen sticky, or that I'm not dressing the kids warm enough, changing their nappy often enough, putting too many layers on when it's warm, straps are too tight in the car seat, I'm not cooking well enough for the kids etc. When I make a meal for him he usually doesn't comment or asks why I put honey in the honey chilli chicken when he doesn't like that. It has gotten to the point that I ask him before I leave the house with the kids if he thinks what they are wearing is ok. I feel like this all sounds so stupid but it is constant and it is wearing me down.

When I do react to his comments and get annoyed, he patronises me by referring to my baby brain, or asks if my period is coming. I do get more irritated on the run up to my period, but I think that just means I'm less able to ignore his bullshit...so really it is me reacting to him, as opposed to me being irrational.

The argument at the moment is because he was late at work 2 nights ago (he works long crazy hours and all the kid admin is left to me, I work part time). I got the boys fed, bathed, ready for bed...then put them both down to sleep (I have to lie down with them). I was in with the older one and he was finally drifting off (it was 8.15 and we hard started the bedtime routine just after 7). He has a cold so he really needs the sleep. My husband has finally arrived home from work, gotten himself showered and decided to sneak into the room and wakes up my son. He knows that when the lights are off and it's quiet that I'm doing bedtime. I stormed off and said you can put DS to bed then (my DS prefers DH at bedtime, he only accepts me when DH isn't there). I did stomp about a bit because I was so frustrated. But I feel like I am always doing the hard graft and then he gets to sail in like fucking Disney dad to be full of fun and cuddles, and doesn't care if he disrupts my hard work. He then came downstairs and asked for an apology, and I tried to explain why I was frustrated and an huge argument broke out. He doesn't let me finish when we argue, he interrupts me and twists what I say. I got worked up and shouted...he said he needed space and didn't want to talk to me so I have given him that.

Last night he came in and did nothing for the boys for bedtime. I was rushing around as usual and asked him if he was going to help, and he said he is scared to help or get in my way as I will just get angry at him. He has said that he won't come home before work anymore before 8pm to please me and so he doesn't get into trouble.

I asked him (over text as I thought it was better and he was in the spare bed in our older son's room), if he would consider counselling or can we talk to try to resolve this? I reacted in a frustrated way (which he has done to me many many times), I said it wasn't the right way to act but can he understand why I did? He is refusing to see things my way and when I ask how we resolve this all he replies with is he will come home after 8 and then I can have everything my way. I said I want to fight for our marriage and we can't carry on fighting like this and he just keeps on that he will stay away and if I want to scream at him then that's up to me, and that I like to argue.

If this was a one off then it would be ok, but it's all the time. Usually I let things go and compromise but it's always me. I'm not doing it anymore, I'm standing up for myself and I feel he doesn't like it. We are still not talking and I'm dreading going home and him coming home later. I can't live like this. What do I do? Am I in the wrong here? Have I misunderstood everything?

He's a controlling prick and he's trying to get you to apologise and grovel.

fuck that. Tell him you agree, you both need space and to work out how you sort the kids equally as that's what it will be like going forwards. See his reaction then.

You’ve described a pattern of coercive control, which is abuse. He’s undermining what you’re doing, questioning the smallest of details, making you question yourself. That’s not a way to deal with genuine concerns about you or your care of the kids. Framing your reasonable annoyance as being hormonal is distracting, deflecting behaviour. Whether it’s over depends on how long you want to live your life like that - it would be over for me.

Was I in the wrong to be frustrated at him ruining bedtime for our son (it wasn't really ruined but it could have been if DS decided to play up)? Even if he came in well meaning (he said he wanted to help me), was I wrong to get annoyed?

I try to do little things to help him all the time and he often tells me why are you doing that? You always do the wrong thing/get in the way etc...when I reply I'm just trying to help, he tells me to stop. So he gets frustrated when my 'help' isn't 'helpful', but I'm not offered the same consideration? Does this make sense? I feel like I'm rambling...

What do I do? Am I in the wrong here

What you do is you stop thinking you're in the wrong. You can't be in the wrong: what you're having are feelings, and what he's doing, at every turn, is disrespecting them.

You need to get away from him.

Where did you learn that it was ok to let someone minimise your feelings? Usually, it's in our childhood. We either have parents who demonstrate disrespect to each other, or parents who demonstrate disrespect towards us. Or parents who somehow didn't have time to prioritise how we felt, say if they were ill or an addict, or if we had an ill or somehow time/energy sapping sibling they had to focus on. Does any of that fit you?

This guy is minimising your feelings all the time, and your response is to question whether it's you who's in the wrong. See the disrespect for what it is, otherwise you are joining in, and disrespecting yourself. It's good you're standing up for yourself now. Really, really good.

How do I know if it is coercive control? What are some examples? How can I make him see how he is to me?

I feel like I have let things slide for too long, that I haven't called him out on his crap so the way he speaks to me is the status quo and now if I do speak up, I am the problem? He says I love drama and creating arguments. But I only ever react to him..no one creates an argument out of nowhere...?

He's gaslighting you, undermining your confidence and he is slowly ebbing away at you until he can control you.

Is it possible he is doing this unintentionally? He is a micro manager for sure, but I genuinely don't think he realises what he is doing. This doesn't make it ok...but I don't think it makes him manipulative or malicious?

Im not sure at this stage if it matters whether it's intentional or not..im just trying to make sense of the life im living..

In real life everyone thinks I have it all. I'm confident, have a wonderful family etc...they would never believe I am being controlled...if that's what this is?

How have I become this person? I feel like I'm shaking as I write this..

How do I know if it is coercive control? What are some examples? How can I make him see how he is to me?

Coercive control is behaviour designed to make you question yourself and ultimately change your behaviour to do what he wants you to do the way he wants you to do it. To question your judgement and erode your autonomy. As a grown woman you can make decisions about how to dress your child without asking for or seeking his approval, for example.

Its a deliberate process of making you dependent on him.

Hey, as others have said, this is coercive control. It’s not micro-managing. He’s making you doubt your ability as a mum and a wife and turning it round to play the victim by saying he won’t come home until after 8 so he doesn’t get into trouble. Really?!
Why do some men twist things so it becomes about your reaction as opposed to the behaviour that promoted the reaction in the first place!!

Having been there, it doesn’t get better unless he acknowledges his behaviour and the affect it is having on you. And I’m sorry to say that in my experience, he will have no understanding that the problem is him so he won’t seek help.

I see that when other posters have said something slightly negative about him you spring to his defence. This is all due to the way he has managed your behaviour. Easy for me to say, but I would tell him it’s time for professional help, or start planning your exit.

It doesn't matter if he's doing it on purpose, any more than it would matter if he was unintentionally punching you in the face: he is damaging you, and your self esteem.

if I do speak up, I am the problem

Yes, and if he habitually punched you in the face, you'd be the problem if you told him to f* off. You want to be the problem. You need to be the problem. You have to throw a spanner in the works. If he doesn't like it, it doesn't mean he's right, it just means he doesn't like it. That's fine. He doesn't have to like it. He's not at pains to only do things you like, is he.

Getting him to realise what he's doing isn't your job. Your job is to be responsible for yourself, so if he does something you don't like, tell him, and if he continues to do it, you then know he's disrespecting you. It's not about convincing him; he can do what he likes. It's about you finding a way to be happy, and if that's without him, that's fine. You are responsible for you, and you'll find a way, but not if you spend all your time questioning yourself.

You are allowed to be you. You are allowed to feel how you feel. Asking why he does what he does or if he's wrong or right is all irrelevant. It's like 'I don't like sprouts, but am I in the wrong? I don't think they're deliberately being horrible, perhaps if they understood better, I could like them more? I feel like I'm just creating drama by not liking them...?' It doesn't make sense. You like and dislike whatever you feel like. Then, you have more of what you like, and you avoid things you dislike. That's how to design a happy life. You don't question your own nature; you look after it, and put yourself in places and with people where you're happy and settled and comfortable.

If you really think it's you causing the problems, ask yourself (and perhaps tell us?) who else you have a problematic relationship with, due to your 'dramatic' ways? I'll bet it's just him, and possibly the parent(s) who taught you that this is how to live.

As others have said, he's controlling and he's gaslighting you. He most definitely isn't doing it unintentionally. He knows exactly what he's doing.
If you don't leave now, it will get worse. Much much worse. I'm speaking from experience.
You deserve better, your children deserve better. You need to be strong enough to leave this vile excuse for a human being and get free.

My DH talks down to me, constantly pointing out that I have left the kitchen sticky, or that I'm not dressing the kids warm enough, changing their nappy often enough, putting too many layers on when it's warm, straps are too tight in the car seat, I'm not cooking well enough for the kids etc. When I make a meal for him he usually doesn't comment or asks why I put honey in the honey chilli chicken when he doesn't like that. It has gotten to the point that I ask him before I leave the house with the kids if he thinks what they are wearing is ok.

OP, that is horrible. Endless criticism, gaslighting, putting you down. He’s a bully. You deserve better.

It’s not just micromanaging, it’s worse than that. And a competent micromanager wouldn’t mess things up like waking DS when you’d just got him to sleep!

He refuses to talk and now says he will stay out till 8pm every night. OP, I would honestly give up on him.

Yeah, I don't have this relationship with anyone except maybe my mum...

This really isn't good huh?

Do I have the strength to say this is it? It's over now...

I feel like something really big needs to happen so I have justification to walk away. Trying to explain this even to myself and make it not sound small and petty feels impossible.

If I leave life is going to get significantly harder for me and my boys in so many ways..and they adore their dad.

Fuck fuck fuck...

It’s really hard to hear you’re in a controlling relationship. It took me ages to get my head around it. I spent a good couple of weeks thinking “Am I in an abusive relationship?”. I honestly hadn’t realised until two different people said it to me. For me it was little things like saying it was fine for me to go out with friends then starting arguments just before I left, refusing to have sex/intimacy with me, telling me I was crap at certain things, one time he even walked in a went for a piss as I was getting out the shower and blocked me my exit!

I would recommend doing The Freedom Programme online (it’s only about £15) and reading “Why does he do that?” By Lundy Bandcroft. Not all aspects will apply but I think some of it will resonate. You don’t have to rush to LTB. I waited a good couple of months before I was ready. Almost a year on, yes it’s been tough but I’m so much happier now I’m free!

Anyone here who has been in a controlling relationship...can you give me some examples of what happened? How did you realise? What was the thing that broke you? How did your partner react when you said it was over and why?

Bump 🙏

I am feeling so lost right now

I had a few moments but the blinkers fell off my eyes in a moment..I’d had a bad injury, my then H had complained a lot about how much he had to do at home..then he said at one point he didn’t think I’d look after him if roles were reversed. I was horrified that he thought that little of me and then suddenly I thought ^Wait that’s not true! That’s just what you tell yourself to justify how you treat me.” And that was it. Suddenly I knew I didn’t want to be married to him any more.
By the time I said we should separate, he knew it was coming and agreed..then he said he wanted to try and make it work but there was really no effort from either of us. He moved on pretty quickly which I think is quite telling.
Honestly, start with the Freedom Programme online and see how you feel.

Hi OP, I’d suggest reading this book, “Why Does He Do That?” It is hugely eye opening and explains coercive control and similar behaviour for people like us who don’t understand it at all! I’ve felt off about arguments with my partner for years but I could never put my finger on why I felt “funny” about them. I did often feel confused and still haven’t got answers to arguments we have been having for years. Anyway, one evening reading the first few chapters and the curtain dropped. I couldn’t stay with them beyond that. A few things became clear:

1. it was MUCH more on purpose than I thought
2. he not only BEHAVED badly towards me but THOUGHT bad things about me eg “she is taking advantage of me for my money”
3. it was going to be a much bigger job and requiring much more effort from me than I imagined — and I suddenly thought, what if I expended all the energy I expend avoiding him, calming him down, putting on a smile or even arguing with him… what if I spent that energy on myself and the kids?

In your case I absolutely think your partner does things on purpose — not like “I’m going to hurt her now!” but eg “for whatever reason (another woman? more freedom? Don’t want to do bedtime?) I want to stay out til 8pm, so I’m going to concoct an elaborate emotional lie to make that happen” and also things like “everything I do for her (eg earn money - men put a LOT of stock into that!) and she can’t even get the kids in the right clothes? What an idiot. Because I’m frustrated at her being so stupid it’s alright to let loose a little and insult her.”

He’s not the man you think. Yes, I think you should leave.

I feel like something really big needs to happen

It already has. The big thing that's happened is that you have recognised that your relationship makes you unhappy, and you don't want to be in it. You've recognised that staying will demonstrate the worst possible thing to your boys as they grow up: that men are allowed to control women. Do you really want to be one of the main instruments in teaching them that?

The fact that you are looking for other people's experiences shows that you don't validate yourself, and that'll be because your mother taught you not to. Do you know about self-validation?

He's looking for ways to have an argument with you.

People do that to try and make you look that the unreasonable one. The one who is making life intolerable.

It shocked me how easy it is to do.

My ex did it for most of our 21 years together. It's vile and abusive. He was having affairs and short term dalliances throughout. Hence him trying to make me look awful so he could justify them all because I was such a terrible person. It worked. I felt like I was losing the plot when yet another argument surged from nowhere.

I know you don't really want to, but can you split?

It doesn't get any better.

And eventually something big will happen. It will be awful. But he will escalate things.

When I do react to his comments and get annoyed, he patronises me by referring to my baby brain, or asks if my period is coming. I do get more irritated on the run up to my period, but I think that just means I'm less able to ignore his bullshit...so really it is me reacting to him, as opposed to me being irrational.

Frankly, this alone qualifies for LTB.

Coupled with the incessant micromanaging & constant criticism of your every act, it's a protracted pattern of abuse that adds up to coercive control.

He says I love drama and creating arguments. But I only ever react to him..no one creates an argument out of nowhere...?
Controllers love DARVO -
www.banyantherapy.com/darvo/

Stop minimising by trying to tell yourself it's not deliberate.
He goads you until you react, then uses your reaction to belittle & control you even more.
He treats you with contempt, yet you wonder if YOU are being in any way unreasonable ...? THIS is how you know you are in a controlling relationship. When you have been gaslit for so long you no longer know which way is up.

It's hard to accept, & many abused women are bright, capable, assertive in work & other situations. It doesn't stop them from being abused in the home.

Please keep posting OP.
Plenty of PP have been in similar situations, & you need support to help you start seeing the wood for the trees.

The answers are all in the Lundy Bancroft book PP recommended OP.
www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling-ebook/dp/B000Q9J0RO

Order it - kindle or e-version is best because he MUST NEVER SEE THIS BOOK.

Aha! - found it - free e-version - www.docdroid.net/KPEiiPh/why-does-he-do-that-pdf

It sounds as though you are both irritating the other and not recognizing the depth of the irritation that you each cause the other. His comments to you are unkind and insensitive. His solution of staying out of your way may be reasonable if it is not done In a passive aggressive way. Leaving you to manage things in your own way may be preferable to encountering your annoyance

You say that you are always doing little things for him, and he is constantly asking you not to do those things. Why then don't you stop doing those things? He may prefer to do those little things his own way.. You seem doing them as a sign of helping caring. He experiences them as an annoyance.

You are both acting with seemingly good intentions, but you both seem fixated on doing things in your own way.Your problems may stem not from your differences so much as from the way that you are so much alike.

If you each step back and recognize that there are many ways of doing the same task and many ways of reaching the same goals, you might both encounter less resistance. No need to try and fix the other; you should both work on becoming more tolerant and less insistent on fixing or correcting each other.