If you have been to couples counselling, can you answer this question for me please?

[BlueLipsBlueVeins]

Sorry this is so long.

Earlier this year, I discovered my husband had been hiding something he was doing from me that I view as a complete betrayal. I don’t want to go in to details, because I don’t want to hear that some people would be fine with this or, as I think the majority would say, that I should leave him. Rightly or wrongly, I am trying to work through it. He immediately and completely accepted that what he had done was awful and is trying to repair the damage he has done. He has proven in the past that he can cut out negative behaviour so I have some cause to be optimistic that he won’t do this again.

When I discovered the betrayal, the scales fell from my eyes about other aspects of our relationship and the life we were living together. I was furious and confronted him - I had realised that he does not put me and our children first and this realisation made me see clearly other decisions he had made which negatively effected us. He also instantly accepted this, admitted that he had been selfish and set about changing the things with which I was unhappy. I had realised that he did not listen properly to me, made assumptions about my thoughts rather than asking me or listening to what I was actually saying and that he did not communicate his own feelings effectively, even when I asked him. He agrees with all of this, says he is sorry and ashamed and will not do this again.

On the whole, after the initial shock and distress, our relationship has improved a lot since I discovered what he was doing. He has cut out the awful activity, changed his work and life balance situation and shares much more of his day-to-day feelings with me. Having said that, I now realise how much was wrong, even setting aside the horrible betrayal. I am less concerned that he will do that again, but I am concerned that he will stop listening to me, particularly if there is something he wants to do that I do not think is fair on me and the children, or that he will stop being honest and sharing his feelings with me and tension will grow.

To my question - if we go to counselling, will I be expected to take some sort of responsibility for what has happened in our relationship and what he did?

I don’t think I can do that, I don’t think I will ever be able to do that. I am not saying that I am or was perfect, but I was honest, fair and always put my family first. I am scared that if we go to counselling, it will be suggested by the counsellor that I should have done things differently and this would have stopped what he did. It wouldn’t have - if I hadn’t accidentally found out he would never, ever have told me. Also, he did this activity before I met him, before we married and for the duration of our 11 year marriage - his whole adult life. I know I am not responsible for it.

I am also scared that the counsellor will suggest that I was somehow responsible for him not listening to me, making assumptions about my feelings or that I could have done something to make him be honest and clear with me about his feelings. Again, I don’t see how.

His best friend is a therapist and when my husband told him what he had been doing and that I might end the marriage because of this, his response was that he shouldn’t blame himself, that husband had not been happy and that my communication was also poor. I do not accept this and my husband also says that isn’t right, I was communicating with him, he just didn’t want to hear what I was saying. I don’t think I would cope with going to counselling and being told this painful disaster has been partially my making.

I am not against advice and suggestions about what I should do if I see old patterns emerging, in fact, this is precisely what I want. But will a counsellor try to make me share responsibility for what happened in the past?

Thank you if you got though all that.

Depends on the counsellor tbh. I had individual counselling with a woman who was brilliant and really helped me.

Went to Relate with XP and the counsellor there questioned me on why I’d called the police on XP when he was angrily kicking stuff around my house and refusing to leave. He told me I’d “escalated things ridiculously”. So yes, some counsellors will expect you to take responsibility for things that any sane person would not accept. I guess the fact that you’re there trying to fix your relationship says you need to both be on board with fixing it. But all it did in my case was give XP ammunition to use against me in future.

Our councillor was very fair, she didn't make us accept blame for things we hadn't done. She did however make us look at situations and see how our poor communication may have lead to some situations and think about how the other person felt.

You should not go to couples counseling first.

You should go to individual counseling, and sort out your feelings and your fears. Take as long as you want to dissect everything about your life within the relationship.

I know you've decided to give the relationship a chance, but you need to understand why you've chosen to do this, in the face of what comes across as a really big betrayal, with contributory elements that include treating you as if you were a domestic appliance.

There has also been some visible contrition, but again, this seems to be a pattern, and because it's a pattern, you are rightly concerned about backsliding. Maybe you also fear that your H would feel relieved if he got a sense that a therapist was dissecting your 'contribution'. Have there been situations in your life where you've been gaslighted like this? I ask because you're clearly aware of the possibility.

When I attended counselling it was all about communicating with each other and no about blame and counter blame at all.

Second vote for individual counselling for both of you before you consider sessions together.

A good couples therapist won't be trying to apportion blame or fault in the same way that the individuals might be, and should remain impartial, but there would need to be an openness to hear events framed in a different way, and a willingness to take accountability from both parties. You will have played a part in events, because you are 50% of the relationship.

To add, I do feel where you're coming from, when I initally started couples therapy with my XH, I felt his behaviour was so preposterous that I would finally get the validation I was looking for. I realised that that would not happen, but it did help me to navigate the end of the marriage with insight that I wouldn't have had.

@SteveHarringtonsChestHair that's appalling advice from the Relate counsellor . Sounds like that person has a belief to preserve the relationship at any cost . Very dangerous. In fact my understanding from a friend who has counselled for Relate is they are not supposed to take on couples counselling if there has been DV.

Couples counselling shouldn't be about blame. It should encompass your feelings, and your partner's feelings. But individual counselling first will help you work out your needs first.
Some counsellors are much better than others. Some will point blame and some will listen.

Thank you everyone.

mathanxiety I’m not entirely sure if this is gaslighting, but he wanted to do a hobby and was most put out that I was not keen and would not facilitate him doing it. In truth, there was no time. He had a full time job, he was also doing a further undergraduate degree at the same time, a part time job and occasionally a weekend job. He helps out a lot around the house also (although everything house and child related was ultimately my responsibility as he had so many other commitments) and he felt when I said that him doing a time consuming hobby on top of all this was too much, that I was really saying he did not do enough around the house. I would insist that I was absolutely not saying he didn’t do enough but that I was stretched too thin and not coping. His response was to say that he shouldn’t have to justify what he does, which doesn’t actually follow from what I was saying. I’m not sure this is gaslighting, but I do think he was trying to manipulate me.

A further response was to suggest things I would like to do for a hobby (I don’t want one - I enjoy reading, baking, looking after the children and tinkering around the house, I don’t need to go to a club or anything). He has since admitted that trying to get me to do a hobby was done so that he could say well now you have one I should have one to.

I don’t know why I didn’t say if you want a hobby, you need to cut one of your other commitments.

H has actually suggested that I go for counselling alone first and make it clear to any counsellor we see together that I will not accept responsibility for or a contribution to his behaviour. He says he will back me up on this and I believe him, although I think you’re right that I am afraid that even privately and internally he will take any suggestions like this from a counsellor as evidence that his behaviour was not as bad as we have since discussed.

I thought the same tbh but I guess it he definition of abuse is open to interpretation. Another counsellor we saw named it as abuse but XP said that she’d just taken my side because she was female and that I didn’t like what the previous one said because he was a man.

He’s an ex for a reason, even though it took me a long time to get here!

OP, I would suggest individual counselling for you so that you can work out what it is you’re trying to save here and whether that is for the best.

I'm going to take a wild guess and say this relates to porn?

It's difficult to say without knowing what he did? Has he said in anyway there was something he considered that you didn't do/were in lacking in which in his view led him to do whatever it is he has done? I would say a counsellor may want to discuss what he gives as his reasons for doing it perhaps and that may or may not include you?

I don't think any counsellor is going to 'suggest' anything or give advise which is what you said you are open to.
They also are not going to blame you for your husbands behaviour/actions but they might encourage you to take responsibility in your role in this/or why you accept it if it is not making you happy?
If you don't want to face or look into things and want to blindly continue with the relationship then there wouldn't be that much benefit of counselling maybe at this stage?

Sorry, cross posted with others there.

GreenManalishi for some reason, I am scared that I am looking for validation when I shouldn’t be. I think I doubt myself a lot. This shouldn’t be about validation or blame but I think that’s what I’m scared of. I don’t want to go to counselling and rake over the past, but in sharing my concerns for the future, the past will undoubtedly come up.

H went to counselling for a couple of months. He said he wanted to know why he engaged in self destructive behaviour. After a couple of months he said he thought there was not much else to go through. He realises he didn’t listen to me, didn’t consider us properly when making decisions and now makes an effort to ask me how I am and what I need from him, which I do appreciate. And as I say things have been good overall. I want to be strong as a couple going forward and I think we need to have a better shared understanding of how to achieve that.

I want to be strong as a couple going forward and I think we need to have a better shared understanding of how to achieve that.

This statement is completely at odds though with your opening post that you don't want to even consider that you have any responsibility in the things that have gone wrong?

anotherdayanotherpathlesstravelled

Not porn. I’m not fussed about porn. And as I said, he did it before I met him, when I met him, while we were in the honeymoon phase, when we moved in together, when he proposed, when we had each of our children right up to this year. I didn’t contribute to it, he has always done it and hidden it because it is something he wanted to do that I and most people would hate.

You are saying I might have contributed to it and you don’t know even know what it was and that makes me feel ill. The idea of someone looking me in the face, knowing what he did and saying that to me is horrifying.

OK, do you have a suggestion of what I should do then?

No I'm not saying you might have contributed to it at all - I'm saying is he saying that? If he does say that to a counsellor then you've got to be prorated that they might want to discuss why he has brought you into it

*prepared

And whatever this "awful activity" is you clearly know it's been going on for years - at no point when you first knew he was doing it did you not have the discussion with him that you found it unacceptable and a relationship ending activity? Or have you "allowed" him to continue to do it and hide it from you? Or have you only found out this year that he had never stopped doing whatever it was that he was doing?

Presumably it's not illegal? This activity?

Couples counselling should help to improve communication - you say you communicate well but couldn’t be heard by your DH, counselling can help unpick blocks in your communication (on both sides) and help you find different ways to listen to each other. A good counsellor won’t validate you or him, they should be fully impartial and focus on the relationship between you. In the process you may find there are issues that sit with you but you need to go into it open to really hearing your DH and knowing you might not like some of what you hear.

Its not about taking responsibility for his stuff, but taking responsibility for your own stuff that you may not yet be aware of.

Your DH setting parameters around what you will and won’t take responsibility for isn’t helpful because it ties the counsellors hands before you even start. Going in with an openness to looking at yourself (and DH looking at himself) honestly and with a willingness for you both to where needed change is an important part of any counselling process.

No he doesn’t say that I was responsible. He says he was selfish. Although, now that you say that, he has never said why he did it since his counselling, we haven’t discussed why again, which is probably quite stupid. Perhaps I have been so sensitive to the idea that it wasn’t my fault that I stopped asking if he understands why he did do it. I suspect he did it because he enjoyed it, he did also mention being stressed with work and it being an escape.

This - on your own first

anotherdayanotherpathlesstravelled

Of course I didn’t know the whole time. When I discovered it he told me. It would have been easier to lie and say it was recent but no, he’s done it for over 20 years.

Ah ok so you found out fairly recently - then he admitted how long it had been going on?

I would also tend towards you having individual counselling, because you seem quite fragile in your own psychological processes. This isn't intended to be a criticism or to blame you because I have been exactly where you have been, not feeling able to cope with anybody blaming me and standing up back for myself, not being certain of my own mind. Does it replicates any childhood patterns for you do you think as this could be as that's why you may be finding it difficult to hold your own position?