If you have been to couples counselling, can you answer this question for me please?

[BlueLipsBlueVeins]

Sorry this is so long.

Earlier this year, I discovered my husband had been hiding something he was doing from me that I view as a complete betrayal. I don’t want to go in to details, because I don’t want to hear that some people would be fine with this or, as I think the majority would say, that I should leave him. Rightly or wrongly, I am trying to work through it. He immediately and completely accepted that what he had done was awful and is trying to repair the damage he has done. He has proven in the past that he can cut out negative behaviour so I have some cause to be optimistic that he won’t do this again.

When I discovered the betrayal, the scales fell from my eyes about other aspects of our relationship and the life we were living together. I was furious and confronted him - I had realised that he does not put me and our children first and this realisation made me see clearly other decisions he had made which negatively effected us. He also instantly accepted this, admitted that he had been selfish and set about changing the things with which I was unhappy. I had realised that he did not listen properly to me, made assumptions about my thoughts rather than asking me or listening to what I was actually saying and that he did not communicate his own feelings effectively, even when I asked him. He agrees with all of this, says he is sorry and ashamed and will not do this again.

On the whole, after the initial shock and distress, our relationship has improved a lot since I discovered what he was doing. He has cut out the awful activity, changed his work and life balance situation and shares much more of his day-to-day feelings with me. Having said that, I now realise how much was wrong, even setting aside the horrible betrayal. I am less concerned that he will do that again, but I am concerned that he will stop listening to me, particularly if there is something he wants to do that I do not think is fair on me and the children, or that he will stop being honest and sharing his feelings with me and tension will grow.

To my question - if we go to counselling, will I be expected to take some sort of responsibility for what has happened in our relationship and what he did?

I don’t think I can do that, I don’t think I will ever be able to do that. I am not saying that I am or was perfect, but I was honest, fair and always put my family first. I am scared that if we go to counselling, it will be suggested by the counsellor that I should have done things differently and this would have stopped what he did. It wouldn’t have - if I hadn’t accidentally found out he would never, ever have told me. Also, he did this activity before I met him, before we married and for the duration of our 11 year marriage - his whole adult life. I know I am not responsible for it.

I am also scared that the counsellor will suggest that I was somehow responsible for him not listening to me, making assumptions about my feelings or that I could have done something to make him be honest and clear with me about his feelings. Again, I don’t see how.

His best friend is a therapist and when my husband told him what he had been doing and that I might end the marriage because of this, his response was that he shouldn’t blame himself, that husband had not been happy and that my communication was also poor. I do not accept this and my husband also says that isn’t right, I was communicating with him, he just didn’t want to hear what I was saying. I don’t think I would cope with going to counselling and being told this painful disaster has been partially my making.

I am not against advice and suggestions about what I should do if I see old patterns emerging, in fact, this is precisely what I want. But will a counsellor try to make me share responsibility for what happened in the past?

Thank you if you got though all that.

Thank you for this and for everyone who has suggested individual counselling. I think I know this is the truth and that I need to be prepared to hear things that I don’t want to hear.

I don’t think I am strong enough for that just now. I was so hurt and felt so betrayed. I still can’t believe what he did, how careless and selfish with our children’s home and stability he was. I am also still coming to terms with what I realised about the rest of our relationship, how I’d accepted crumbs of his time and attention and allowed him to be angry with me for asking him not to put us under further strain. I’m not ready to hear about my own failings, of which I’m sure there at least some.

Hopefully individually counselling could get me to a place where I could engage with a couples counsellor properly.

I think there is something there with what you’re saying there. I am close to all of my immediate family and love them very much. I would do anything for them. But my mum can be very a harsh woman and does not like to signs of weakness. I have considered counselling about my relationships there, particularly with my mum, in the past.

Individual counselling is an excellent idea, it’ll give you safe, confidential space to explore what has happened and the depth of your sense of betrayal - it can also give you a space to look at yourself in the context of your relationship without feeling exposed as can happen in couples work. It can also help you strengthen your own boundaries so you feel steady enough to try couples counselling, or not, depending on your wishes here.

Sorry, I’m making so many typos now.

Yes, anotherdayanotherpathlesstravelled that’s right, once I knew he told me the lot. Brave I guess, but painful nonetheless.

There is a massive difference between you being willing to consider whether you contribute to issues in the relationship and you making him behave in a certain way. You can NEVER be responsible for someone else actions.

You aren't response for whatever he's done but from my own experience being faced with the evidence of their own failings people will invariably try to deflect some responsibility on to others

Eg - you didn't find out for 20 years.....was that because you didn't notice enough / pay him enough attention / your focus was elsewhere - for all you know that's would he could be saying?

See what I mean? He could be saying that to a counsellor and I'm sure that then they'd want to delve into that?

I am not going to accept responsibility for the thing he was doing. He did it because he wanted to even though he knew it was wrong. He was sneaky and if I was less naive maybe I would have realised something sooner.

I think, after creating this thread and reflecting on what has been said, I could go to individual counselling with a view to eventually going to couples counselling to consider how we both could have done things differently in other areas of our relationship. Honestly, these are the things I am more worried about happening again and what I want to avoid, because things have been better since we have been more conscious of clear communication.

It seems as though you are already managing to confront yourself about your failings without the help of a
counsellor. You say you accepted crumbs of affection, which is a hard learning about yourself.

You did not recognize your own worth and did not stand up for yourself enough. You can probably understand where this negative behaviour comes from (harsh mother) but that doesn’t mean you’re not responsible for fixing it.

Often people engage in unhealthy behaviours in the mistaken belief that they are actually a good thing to do, or the “right” thing to do. You may have believed that accepting crumbs was all you deserved, or may not have even known that more than crumbs was possible. Or perhaps you felt you deserved more but believed that you have to sacrifice yourself in order to keep a family together. Or you had made the decision to make yourself financially vulnerable so didn’t have the financial wherewithal to decide to leave the relationship when you felt you weren’t being treated right. All of these are things you have done wrong and are responsible for fixing.

Perhaps if you had known all these things earlier you would have behaved differently with your husband and he would have had the opportunity to confront himself earlier and you would have saved both of you years of suffering (as his negative behaviour would have been causing him to suffer too). That is something to sit with.

Whether you ultimately want to save or leave the relationship, you do need to understand what you got wrong, but this should be an understanding you come to by yourself. If your husband has already decided you have certain faults that “caused” him to act the way he did and wants you to accept those faults as “your part”, I can understand why you may be resistant to hearing it, as he may be projecting, or he may simply not like certain aspects of you that other partners would take no issue with. You are not responsible for the choices he made in response to not getting everything his own way.

If you are going to counselling you need to open to change, open to working on things in yourself and your relationship. The counsellor is not going to "blame" (or at least shouldn't if they are working correctly and within the BACP guidelines)

What's interesting from your post is your insistance that you take no responsibility for anything that has gone in your relationship. It does not mean that your husband is not responsible but you seem very closed to the idea that you have anything to work on. That will make counselling very difficult.

If you are hoping the counsellor will "side" with you then don't go. That's collusion on the part of the counsellor and is a highly unethical practise. Only in the case of abuse should you find that that counsellor will be one sided and in that case it is to help the abused escape or report.

Haven't RTFT (lazy) but no, you won't be expected to take responsibility but they may well ask you to examine your behaviour leading up to and during his shenanigans. This sounds like they are trying to blame you but it isn't the case. It's so you can avoid repeating any aspect which may have facilitated the situation (unwittingly).
It's tricky. And uncomfortable, because you have to be honest with yourself.
An simple example might be that you might realise you are a people pleaser and didn't set boundaries, that sort of thing.

His shenanigans were during the whole time I have ever known him. I can’t examine my behaviour leading up to them because leading up to them we didn’t even know each other.

What this thread has shown me is that I am going to have to confront the idea that there were problems between us and that I could have handled them better. It shouldn’t have taken a terrible revelation to confront the other issues.

That's fair enough if you think that, but don't be swayed by others. Let's face it, all relationships encounter problems at some stage but you have been dealt a massive blow so it's put your relationship under the microscope when ordinarily those other problems might just simmer under the surface, not really affecting much.

Do not be swayed by any justifications about him 'having been unhappy'. It's not that it's taken a massive revelation to confront the other issues. The massive revelation has meant that those other issues have been drawn out too.

Do not take any responsibility for his behaviour.

Was he unhappy? Did he tell you he was unhappy?

No he didn’t tell me he was unhappy. He told his friend, the therapist. Honestly, the fact that he didn’t come to me with that and told his friend, who I frequently socialise with, is another blow and another example of him not being able to be honest with me. I felt humiliated all over again when our discussions led him to admit this.

The first part of your post decribes my current situation exactly. My DH is in therapy and I am hoping to start soon. We have figured that we need to work through our own shit before we can even embark on our relationship.

I am exactly in your situation where I've discovered a betrayal and it's been the last straw. Obviously everything is linked but his choices have been shit. Again he is improving but it's slow and I have zero patience.

I have also realised that I have changed. I've hit perimeno and I literally have stopped pandering and trying to please him. And it's having consequences.

I really need to stop myself emotionally bashing him but unfortunately it works. I've dialled it right back and he's finally listening.

Unless he changes his own values or morphs into someone unrecognisable, I'm not sure we will survive. I think we will limp along with me telling him exactly what he needs to do to be a loving caring husband and father until the kids grow up or I snap. He's happy with death do us part. So it will be me that pulls the trigger and me that gets the blame.

Hang in there, I really hope we find a happy place.

I feel like I'm reading something different from some PP. He has betrayed you and neglected you. I wouldn't be having counselling with him. Also, therapy can be fantastic, but it isn't magical, it won't change an arsehole into a lovely person. I'd have individual counselling - it may be hard, but would be good to have a non-judgemental, supportive someone there just for you.

@BlueLipsBlueVeins

i know you don't want to say what he did, but can you say what 'category' this thing was?

sexual:. You say not porn but cross dressing/bi sexual stuff/prostitutes etc

addiction: alcohol/drugs/gambling

suporting something you find abhorrent:hunting/political

I think what I'm trying to ascertain is how it affects you.

Other than the betrayal of hiding it, has it changed how you feel about him?

i definitely agree that you need to go through counselling before you even think about couples counselling.

To my question - if we go to counselling, will I be expected to take some sort of responsibility for what has happened in our relationship and what he did?
I think you should junk the idea of couples counselling, & engage with a solo therapist to work through YOUR feelings, YOUR expectations, YOUR feeling of betrayal, YOUR fear of not being listened to, & YOUR wishes for how you want your future to look like.

You don't need the distraction of worrying about how you will be perceived.
It's concerning that your instinct is already telling you that any couples counselling would be used to force you into accepting some form of responsibility for your H's actions. This is a good instinct & I urge you to act on it. You should have counselling solely for YOU, to help you look clearly at the dynamic of your marriage & decide what you want from it.

His best friend is a therapist and when my husband told him what he had been doing and that I might end the marriage because of this, his response was that he shouldn’t blame himself, that husband had not been happy and that my communication was also poor.
Fuck the best friend & fuck the lame horse he rode in on.
Counselling is about accepting responsibility for yourself & your own actions.
Even your H doesn't believe this friend - he confirmed that your communication was fine - & that he simply chose to ignore it.

I think you are so used to not being heard in your marriage, & so understandably scared of it happening again, that you are projecting that fear onto an imaginary counsellor you have not even met yet. Your H had solo counselling. You deserve it too. One of the main things to explore would be this fear - how it came about, how long you have felt suffocated by not being heard, what the hell is going on with the way your H treats you in order for this to have happened ... & how to ensure that you get heard going forward. This will be good for you no matter what you decide to do or what happens with your marriage. Your counsellor will be there for YOU, nobody else. A good one will champion you - but also challenge you. Give yourself that space, that healing time.

KettrickenSmiled Thank you.

A therapist ..a good one doesn't look to blame either party. They look at what brought you to therapy and it's for the 2 of you to say what your goals are as a couple.

There are different focuses with training as a couples therapist. A therapist may ask if you think you contributed to the current the state of affairs in any way or if there is something you could have done differently.....even if it's communication. It just depends on what your husband says ... so if he was asked if he knows why he did xyz.. and said it's because you said something, or for example be lied because he knew you wouldn't approve... the therapist could ask you about that.

It seems that you want him to accept responsibility for 100% of the issues. I don't think that's a good thing and your refusal to accept that SOME issues may lay with you is worrisome. There's 2 people in a marriage and to say absolutely none of the issues may be apportioned to you is telling.

His betrayal is 100% his responsibility. He made the choice knowing you wouldn't like it....he is accountable and that's that. It sounds like gambling or financial risk if your home

When you are hoping so hard that couples counseling will bring you validation, it's a sign that you have been manipulated, silenced, brushed off, or in some other way made to feel your feelings and opinions didn't matter. Gaslighting would fit the bill too.

Your description of the way he would turn your comment on a hobby into a criticism of how much he contributes around the house made me want to practice my darts game with a photo of his face, and the hobby thing ditto.

This isn't a communication problem. It's him twisting what you say. It's him coming to you with an unreasonable request and turning you into the hobby police. He won't manage his own time himself and out family first. He wants you to play bad cop. Then he tries to get the green light by tripping you up - suggesting you get a hobby too.

The two of you are engages in guerilla warfare. His communication style is fundamentally manipulative and dishonest, and maddening. You have responded by manning the battlements. This is not a problem as far as it goes. You don't want to be walked over after all.

But defensive positions shouldn't be needed in a marriage. Your H should be doing the estimation of time and energy expenditure himself. He shouldn't be trying to trip you. Its not your job to manage him. That's not partnership. At some point you need to find out what he understands by the word partnership. If he sticks to a list of chores, that's a red flag.

Oh love. You've been shaken to your core. It's palpable in your posts.
I really urge you to do your own counselling asap.
You need to unload and be able to get extremely upset somewhere safe and private.
Whatever he's done is abhorrent to you and you need to get it all out before you even entertain joint therapy.

I second solo counselling.

It appears that you have accepted a lot of your H’s crap over the years and this ‘awful’ thing he has done has somehow triggered your realisation of this. It’s like this thing has finally given you permission to be critical of your relationship with your H.

I am very suspicious that a man you describe as generally selfish, has done a complete 180 in such a short period of time. His apparent contrition and agreeing with everything you say, isn’t improved communication, it’s him saying the things he knows you want to hear. He knows you well enough to know that if he attempted to blame or implicate you in his behaviour, you’d get defensive and would be less amenable to the ‘changed man’ narrative that’s being peddled.

Your marriage is a dynamic in which you have a role in and your sensitivity to being challenged, really will hinder any kind of progress in marriage counselling. I really think at this moment in time, couples counselling could be detrimental to your mh.

The relationship dynamic with your mother has shaped you and has prepared you for the role you play in your marriage. You are not to blame for what your H did but you have a role in a relationship dynamic where you say you wasn’t heard. You can not change what you don’t first acknowledge.

Your H sounds like an entitled, manipulative twat and entitled manipulative twats, don’t change their spots so easily. It appears that he may be playing the long game, saying and doing the right things which in time would enable him to resume his ‘down low’ activities.

Get yourself solo counselling, couples counselling would only give this manipulative man an edge because he would know what cards were on the table, which in turn would influence how he’d play his hand.

Good luck.

Hey OP. Seems you've decided on the individual therapy first. I agree.

I'm in an ongoing situation where I've not been believed on a perpetual basis. We went to couples counselling and I was borderline not believed. Then we went to a mediator (I'm trying to get divorced) and the mediator fully didn't believe me and was very much of the "there are 2 people in the relationship, you're 50% of the problem". Only I truly wasn't. I was being open and honest why STBX was lying about everything, manipulating her etc and she had fallen for it. While this isn't your situation, the damage it did to me to be in that position in a professional setting was huge. I'd go as far as saying traumatic - I can barely talk about it a few years later.

So if you do go to joint therapy, keep an eye out for any signs that the therapist isn't believing you and do not dismiss it. You clearly have a vulnerability to it, for whatever reason, and nothing is worth what happened to me (and I've read about others too). You should never be asked to take responsibility for someone else's behaviour.

• open and honest, while STBX was lying..

Yes to solo counseling.

This situation sounds very complicated and obviously we're only hearing a tiny part of it (as is your right). But several things concern me:

Your H has been doing something (possibly illegal?) behind your back for 20 years and yet walked away from his own individual therapy after 2 months saying he didn't need any more. That sounds very glib and I'd be surprised if his ability and desire to deceive was really sorted out in that time.

Please try to ignore what the friend/therapist says. He isn't your H's actual therapist in this situation, nor should he be as he can't be disinterested. His opinion as a friend shouldn't be used as a stick to beat you with and I think he's being highly unprofessional.

Trust is essential in relationships. Re-establishing trust after TWO DECADES of deception is going to take time and sustained demonstration from the one who carried out the deception. It's great things have been better lately, but don't be fooled by short-term surface improvement. And don't be rushed.