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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Exasperated

59 replies

rstare786 · 17/10/2022 15:18

Hi, have been with my DP for 9 years but we don't live together as we both have children and are about an hour apart. When he doesn't have his children, he phones, texts when he wants. However, when he does have his children, he basically ignores me, cannot even phone for 5 minutes without them being in the background. If he can't speak, that's fine, I totally understand but I feel like it's double standards all the time. He wants to talk to me when he wants but I can't talk when I want. When we go out for the day altogether, he basically cannot even speak to me without feeling guilty that he's not paying attention to his children. If he puts his arm on my leg for instance in a restaurant, he has to hug his daughter at the same time just in case she thinks he doesn't love her. If I'm talking to him and one of his daughters asks him something, he'll literally turn his back on me and talk to them midway through a conversation. At my birthday, one of my daughters took a photo and he leaned away from me and towards his daughter. I don't really care, but it was actually my birthday! His oldest daughter calls the shots and does not want to go to any celebrations my family invite her to and he doesn't make her. So, for years, I've been in a relationship with somebody who is never there if his children are there. My family, although they're my family, are always nice to them and make them feel welcome. My daughter and I were uninvited to his daughter's party because it might be awkward if his ex-wife is there. His ex-wife has been in a new relationship for about 5 years and her partner and children live with them so I don't know why it would be awkward. It's only awkward between the 2 of them as they can't communicate. When we don't have the children, he is completely different but the children are a part of his life and I can't base a relationship on the couple of days we have on our own. He expects to be a part of my life and my children's life and I have done everything possible for that to happen but he just says to me "oh, they just want it to be the 3 of us so you can't come" ie him and his 2 daughters which is fine but then he can't expect something different from me. Rant over!

OP posts:
HellothereSH · 18/10/2022 17:19

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Previously banned poster.

AnneLovesGilbert · 18/10/2022 17:27

Bin him off. He’s not going to find anyone happy to put up with this and he’ll probably end of lonely. You’ve got a chance to meet a real partner but only if you ditch him and move on.

EvenMoreFuriousVexation · 18/10/2022 17:29

rstare786 · 17/10/2022 22:04

This morning I said to him I didn't want to have wasted 9 years of my life. He said it wouldn't have been a waste, just think of all the fun things we've done and happy memories! I said he would have wasted it! What the hell!!

Google "sunk costs fallacy".

The fact you've spent 9 years on him doesn't obligate you to spend another 9 hoping that things will improve.

His youngest is only 11 and it sounds like he's carrying huge amounts of guilt still. Even when they've hit adulthood it sounds like he'll still be wanting to run around after them and make you an afterthought.

Jumpking · 18/10/2022 17:30

I'm sorry to hear this@rstare786

My now XDP adores his 12 yr old son. He's the primary carer. I was always second best to his son, which I adored about him. Son never knew I was part of his dad's life after a year of us seeing each other. It got wearing when I was cancelled late on a regular basis, as his son decided on a whim he wanted to spend extra time with his dad.

My friends told me to get out, as he was treating me so poorly. I kept clinging on, as every time I addressed it with ex, I was promised change and I felt he was worth holding out for his son to loosen the apron strings with age.

And then he started cancelling me because of things he wanted to do. Nothing to do with his son. It was one challenge too many for him from me, so he ended it. I'd allowed him to think it was ok to treat me that way for a while, so he kept on pushing.

I'm glad it was only a year of it.

It sounds like you've given your guy more than enough opportunity to make changes and to be respectful to you. I hear you're not asking for unreasonable, you're asking for him to behave towards you like you do to him. His behaviour has shown you repeatedly that he's drawn his lines in the sand as to how he is and you either need to accept it and stop moaning about it, as it's never going to change, or you get out now and don't waste anymore time feeling the way you are right now.

And, like me, it's a big risk thinking things might change the older his children get. It may happen, it may not. Is it worth several more years of this treatment to chance that his behaviour towards you might change? Is he really worth it? It's a massive risk, and only a decision you can make. After 9 years, I think you already have your answer.

All the best OP

Pugalicious · 18/10/2022 17:39

Yes after nine years of taking this crap, his daughters are set in their ways and resent you for whatever they have been fed by their mother it seems.
You will never be good enough and as they become older he will engage even less with you.
Throw him back before he ruins another minute for you. Your children will have ben affected by this if only because they see the effect it all has upon you

Original poster
rstare786 · 18/10/2022 18:04

Jumpking · 18/10/2022 17:30

I'm sorry to hear this@rstare786

My now XDP adores his 12 yr old son. He's the primary carer. I was always second best to his son, which I adored about him. Son never knew I was part of his dad's life after a year of us seeing each other. It got wearing when I was cancelled late on a regular basis, as his son decided on a whim he wanted to spend extra time with his dad.

My friends told me to get out, as he was treating me so poorly. I kept clinging on, as every time I addressed it with ex, I was promised change and I felt he was worth holding out for his son to loosen the apron strings with age.

And then he started cancelling me because of things he wanted to do. Nothing to do with his son. It was one challenge too many for him from me, so he ended it. I'd allowed him to think it was ok to treat me that way for a while, so he kept on pushing.

I'm glad it was only a year of it.

It sounds like you've given your guy more than enough opportunity to make changes and to be respectful to you. I hear you're not asking for unreasonable, you're asking for him to behave towards you like you do to him. His behaviour has shown you repeatedly that he's drawn his lines in the sand as to how he is and you either need to accept it and stop moaning about it, as it's never going to change, or you get out now and don't waste anymore time feeling the way you are right now.

And, like me, it's a big risk thinking things might change the older his children get. It may happen, it may not. Is it worth several more years of this treatment to chance that his behaviour towards you might change? Is he really worth it? It's a massive risk, and only a decision you can make. After 9 years, I think you already have your answer.

All the best OP

Thank you. It is exactly like this.

OP posts:
Knackeredmommy · 18/10/2022 19:48

9 years, I really don't think things will change. I say this as someone whose DP has daughters in their mid 20's and acts in a very similar way...

Cherchezlaspice · 18/10/2022 22:32

You’ve posted this before. You got the exact same advice. If you continue to tolerate this, then this is your life.

Unforgettablehamster · 19/10/2022 11:22

Dear OP - I was you a few years back. The decision to walk away from a relationship that I invested so much time & emotions in was heartbreaking. Fast forward to now and I can’t believe I let myself and my child to be treated the way he treated us. I now see clearly that he had no real intentions to change as the situation & unhealthy family dynamics simply suited him. He didn’t have to challenge his children’s mother, his children, he had my attention, care and fun times together when he made himself available. And during those times he was indeed a lovely companion. But that was all and despite promises nothing ever changed.

Base your decision not on what it was or what you want it to be, but on what it is NOW. He might be wasting the best years of your life, and chipping off your self esteem. These lovely, fun, non-committal men are first class users and parasites.

jsku · 19/10/2022 12:20

You have been in this relationship for 9 years. His dynamics with his children isn’t new news.
It does seem to me that you are fighting some sort of a war over who is most important to him.
I don’t see why it’s so important to you to have a 5 min ‘private’ conversation with him on weekends when he has his kids. Just to prove a point to yourself or them? What can possibly be so urgently needing privacy on a regular basis??

I am sure he has all kinds of complex guilt issues over him leaving the family when his kids were so young. He is clearly overcompensating his guilt in a way he is being with his girls.

I am recently divorced. Have a bf. Don’t have massive guilt over the divorce, but my time with my kids is special for me. I do try to make it about them as much as possible. If bf was making an issue of it and was jealous of my kids and tried to ‘compete’ over who is more important to me - he’ll not be my bf.

Unforgettablehamster · 19/10/2022 13:52

@jsku - the difference is that you are recently divorced so I’m assuming that your current relationship is recent, too. Of course your bf is understanding of the situation now, but try to imagine 9 years of such compartmentalisation of life.

jsku · 19/10/2022 14:24

@Unforgettablehamster

This isn’t ‘compartmentalisation’ of life. OP and her partner don’t live together. They have not combined their lives.
I am guessing this is the main reason for OP’s resentment of his relationship with his children - and she is transferring that resentment on the external expression of that.

Many women make the same choice to not move in with their new partners while they have kids at home. And that is exactly to protect that special parent/child bond we have with our children. Divorce is hard enough on the kids as it is.

I think it’s not on for the OP to try to change the dynamics of his relationship with his kids after appearing to be Ok with it all this time. I would certainly leave any partner who would come between me and my kids.

OP needs to decide what she really wants and if she can’t accept that he puts his kids first while they are with him - (on a part time basis as it seems) - she needs to leave and find someone else.
He must not have been a great person to leave his kids while they were so small. But I do think he is doing a good job for being an involved and dedicated parent now, and not letting his needy/jealous gf affect it.

Original poster
rstare786 · 19/10/2022 14:54

jsku · 19/10/2022 14:24

@Unforgettablehamster

This isn’t ‘compartmentalisation’ of life. OP and her partner don’t live together. They have not combined their lives.
I am guessing this is the main reason for OP’s resentment of his relationship with his children - and she is transferring that resentment on the external expression of that.

Many women make the same choice to not move in with their new partners while they have kids at home. And that is exactly to protect that special parent/child bond we have with our children. Divorce is hard enough on the kids as it is.

I think it’s not on for the OP to try to change the dynamics of his relationship with his kids after appearing to be Ok with it all this time. I would certainly leave any partner who would come between me and my kids.

OP needs to decide what she really wants and if she can’t accept that he puts his kids first while they are with him - (on a part time basis as it seems) - she needs to leave and find someone else.
He must not have been a great person to leave his kids while they were so small. But I do think he is doing a good job for being an involved and dedicated parent now, and not letting his needy/jealous gf affect it.

Seriously?! Thanks for that.

OP posts:
Noxpox · 19/10/2022 15:18

@jsku theres putting your kids first and then there’s being out and out rude!! I honestly can’t understand other parents who think that just because they have a child they can be rude and dismiss other people’s feelings. Are we really doing our kids favours if we act in the way OPs partner is ?? @rstare786 The things you have described go far beyond him “putting his kids first”. He is blatantly disrespecting you and no doubt his kids are picking up on that. After 9 years though he is not going to change and why would he when you have put up with it for so long?

Unforgettablehamster · 19/10/2022 16:40

@Noxpox agreed.
He can make sure that his children’s needs are met without disregarding his partner’s feeling. What he has taught his children is that his partner and her child always come second and that their needs and feelings can be disregarded. He is responsible for setting the standard of behaviour towards his partner and her child.
Nothing good will come out of the current set up for anyone.

Original poster
rstare786 · 19/10/2022 17:34

Unforgettablehamster · 19/10/2022 16:40

@Noxpox agreed.
He can make sure that his children’s needs are met without disregarding his partner’s feeling. What he has taught his children is that his partner and her child always come second and that their needs and feelings can be disregarded. He is responsible for setting the standard of behaviour towards his partner and her child.
Nothing good will come out of the current set up for anyone.

Thank you. It's actually really hard to make the decision as to what to do because actually there are lots of good times. Saying someone is needy and jealous as the previous poster said is not helpful. I don't think asking to be treated consistently and kindly and not ignored is needy.

OP posts:
Quitelikeit · 19/10/2022 18:04

Op I think the key thing here is you are unhappy with the situation. It doesn’t really matter if you were happy about it before what matters is now

so if you don’t feel happy you need to make a change, but god if these girls are controlling of their father I can only imagine how that’s going to continue for the next 20 years!!!

I don’t think I could be bothered with that.

a man who puts his children first is one thing but a man who encourages and creates dysfunction is something else entirely

I say, stay for now and emotionally detach. Once you are in the right place mentally then dump him!!!

MMmomDD · 19/10/2022 21:02

I think if this is how you feel about him and his kids after 9 years in a relationship with him - you should put yourself out of misery and let him go.

I think we all have different ideas of how things should be, how to put - or not put kids first in divorce.
As a child I was on the receiving end of that - where my mother put her new partner ahead of me in her priorities. It did major damage to our relationship and caused me a lot of damage, that took me years to realise and deal with.
So - to everyone who says - he shouldn’t put his kids first - I would say - really?

OP’s complaints are all about her. And I do agree she sounds jealous of his kids. He isn’t doing anything particularly rude.
He pays attention when kids speak to him; he doesn’t hide away in his house when OP calls - why should he? Why can’t she have a conversation with him if his kids are there in the house… They didn’t want to come to her family’s events. So what.
His kids aren’t stupid, they sense she is competing with them over their dad.
She is the adult here. They are pre/teens caught living in a complicated setup.
Wanting to have time alone with their dad isn’t wrong.

But OP - given you aren’t happy with what he can give you - why stay and make it hard for him and yourself?

Original poster
rstare786 · 19/10/2022 22:06

MMmomDD · 19/10/2022 21:02

I think if this is how you feel about him and his kids after 9 years in a relationship with him - you should put yourself out of misery and let him go.

I think we all have different ideas of how things should be, how to put - or not put kids first in divorce.
As a child I was on the receiving end of that - where my mother put her new partner ahead of me in her priorities. It did major damage to our relationship and caused me a lot of damage, that took me years to realise and deal with.
So - to everyone who says - he shouldn’t put his kids first - I would say - really?

OP’s complaints are all about her. And I do agree she sounds jealous of his kids. He isn’t doing anything particularly rude.
He pays attention when kids speak to him; he doesn’t hide away in his house when OP calls - why should he? Why can’t she have a conversation with him if his kids are there in the house… They didn’t want to come to her family’s events. So what.
His kids aren’t stupid, they sense she is competing with them over their dad.
She is the adult here. They are pre/teens caught living in a complicated setup.
Wanting to have time alone with their dad isn’t wrong.

But OP - given you aren’t happy with what he can give you - why stay and make it hard for him and yourself?

This is absolute rubbish! I'm only asking for him to communicate with me like he wants me to communicate with me. Saying that children should hear adult conversations is ridiculous! I don't expect him to do anything more than he expects of me.

OP posts:
Original poster
rstare786 · 19/10/2022 22:07

MMmomDD · 19/10/2022 21:02

I think if this is how you feel about him and his kids after 9 years in a relationship with him - you should put yourself out of misery and let him go.

I think we all have different ideas of how things should be, how to put - or not put kids first in divorce.
As a child I was on the receiving end of that - where my mother put her new partner ahead of me in her priorities. It did major damage to our relationship and caused me a lot of damage, that took me years to realise and deal with.
So - to everyone who says - he shouldn’t put his kids first - I would say - really?

OP’s complaints are all about her. And I do agree she sounds jealous of his kids. He isn’t doing anything particularly rude.
He pays attention when kids speak to him; he doesn’t hide away in his house when OP calls - why should he? Why can’t she have a conversation with him if his kids are there in the house… They didn’t want to come to her family’s events. So what.
His kids aren’t stupid, they sense she is competing with them over their dad.
She is the adult here. They are pre/teens caught living in a complicated setup.
Wanting to have time alone with their dad isn’t wrong.

But OP - given you aren’t happy with what he can give you - why stay and make it hard for him and yourself?

You are just projecting your experience onto mine.

OP posts:
BecauseICan22 · 19/10/2022 22:09

rstare786 · 17/10/2022 15:18

Hi, have been with my DP for 9 years but we don't live together as we both have children and are about an hour apart. When he doesn't have his children, he phones, texts when he wants. However, when he does have his children, he basically ignores me, cannot even phone for 5 minutes without them being in the background. If he can't speak, that's fine, I totally understand but I feel like it's double standards all the time. He wants to talk to me when he wants but I can't talk when I want. When we go out for the day altogether, he basically cannot even speak to me without feeling guilty that he's not paying attention to his children. If he puts his arm on my leg for instance in a restaurant, he has to hug his daughter at the same time just in case she thinks he doesn't love her. If I'm talking to him and one of his daughters asks him something, he'll literally turn his back on me and talk to them midway through a conversation. At my birthday, one of my daughters took a photo and he leaned away from me and towards his daughter. I don't really care, but it was actually my birthday! His oldest daughter calls the shots and does not want to go to any celebrations my family invite her to and he doesn't make her. So, for years, I've been in a relationship with somebody who is never there if his children are there. My family, although they're my family, are always nice to them and make them feel welcome. My daughter and I were uninvited to his daughter's party because it might be awkward if his ex-wife is there. His ex-wife has been in a new relationship for about 5 years and her partner and children live with them so I don't know why it would be awkward. It's only awkward between the 2 of them as they can't communicate. When we don't have the children, he is completely different but the children are a part of his life and I can't base a relationship on the couple of days we have on our own. He expects to be a part of my life and my children's life and I have done everything possible for that to happen but he just says to me "oh, they just want it to be the 3 of us so you can't come" ie him and his 2 daughters which is fine but then he can't expect something different from me. Rant over!

It's been 9 years. You've more than given this your best shot.

Walk away and find something or someone that makes you feel loved and wanted, all the time.

Noxpox · 19/10/2022 22:54

@rstare786 you know yourself his behaviour is not right and that you aren’t being treated with respect. The question is, after 9 years of you tolerating it, what are you going to do about it? If you don’t do anything different then nothing is going to change. He knows by now that he can carry on doing what he’s doing, he knows you’re not happy about it but he doesn’t care. And he knows you stick around anyway.

Evianoff · 19/10/2022 23:04

MMmomDD · 19/10/2022 21:02

I think if this is how you feel about him and his kids after 9 years in a relationship with him - you should put yourself out of misery and let him go.

I think we all have different ideas of how things should be, how to put - or not put kids first in divorce.
As a child I was on the receiving end of that - where my mother put her new partner ahead of me in her priorities. It did major damage to our relationship and caused me a lot of damage, that took me years to realise and deal with.
So - to everyone who says - he shouldn’t put his kids first - I would say - really?

OP’s complaints are all about her. And I do agree she sounds jealous of his kids. He isn’t doing anything particularly rude.
He pays attention when kids speak to him; he doesn’t hide away in his house when OP calls - why should he? Why can’t she have a conversation with him if his kids are there in the house… They didn’t want to come to her family’s events. So what.
His kids aren’t stupid, they sense she is competing with them over their dad.
She is the adult here. They are pre/teens caught living in a complicated setup.
Wanting to have time alone with their dad isn’t wrong.

But OP - given you aren’t happy with what he can give you - why stay and make it hard for him and yourself?

Really? You cannot image why two adults might not want to have a conversation without the kids being present? I'm sure they would love to hear OP talk about having sex with their dad. Or the joys of how they will afford the mortgage and the heating this month.

I live with my kids father. I generally put my kids first in all situations. But I also want some privacy to have some adult conversations with my husband sometimes.

KettrickenSmiled · 19/10/2022 23:17

think it’s not on for the OP to try to change the dynamics of his relationship with his kids after appearing to be Ok with it all this time. I would certainly leave any partner who would come between me and my kids.
She isn't looking to change the dynamic - she's looking to change the double standard.
Her partner expects to communicate with her whenever & however long he wants to when she is with her kids. But when he has his - she's not allowed a look in.

OP needs to decide what she really wants and if she can’t accept that he puts his kids first while they are with him - (on a part time basis as it seems) - she needs to leave and find someone else.
It's not putting kids forst to turn your back on the adult partner you are conversing with when they interrupt her conversation. It's not putting them first to pander to them & tell them it's their decision whether OP gets to see her partner while they are around, He is raising a pair of girls who will grow up to be disrespectful or who might get a shick when the adult world they enter in a few years does not shower them with attention & coddle them in recompense for showing any other person affection.

He must not have been a great person to leave his kids while they were so small.
We don;t know that he left. Maybe his ex left him.

But I do think he is doing a good job for being an involved and dedicated parent now, and not letting his needy/jealous gf affect it.
He is teaching his girls to be needy & jealous. by pandering to them & showing them that they can interrupt adults, dictate terms, & get cuddles every time a small amount of attention is shown to their dad's partner.

MMmomDD · 19/10/2022 23:22

@Evianoff

Of course there are adult conversations that children shouldn’t hear.

But this isn’t about that. OP complained about him having kids in the background when she calls him on his weekend with his kids. As a general comment. And that does sound to me a little strange. His kids are probably with him EOW. And she knows on those weekends he is focused on the kids. Is that really such a terrible thing?

He is a grown up - I am sure if he thought the type of conversations they are having isn’t suitable for the kids ears - he’d not be having those conversation in front of them.
And I hope she isn’t calling him with phone sex while kids are awake & around.

@rstare786
I am sharing my experience of being on the other side. Not projecting it on YOU - as you are the adult partner of a divorced parent. I don’t know how that feels. I am sharing it with you in the hope you would stop just focusing on your POV and consider his kids’ situation. And have some empathy. You being the adult in this.

But your contempt of these kids comes quite strongly, so actually I don’t think there is much hope for this to work. It’s too bad.