Internalized misogyny at work: young women and older male partners

[bangingmyheadagainstthewall2]

I have posted something similar to this before so it may be familiar, although this issue is coming to a head so I'd like your thoughts.

I am a Partner in a large global consultancy firm. In my sector there are 4 Partners who lead various verticals: three 50-something year old men (who have been there for the last 30 years), and me (F39) who has been there for 7 years. Despite the tenure difference, we are all on the same level and are equal.

Between us we have a team of 15 people aged between 20-27, They are graduates to middle management level consultants who we share in terms of them helping us with projects and learning the job. 10 out of 15 of these are female. We are responsible for their development and promotion etc and we are their direct bosses. Promotion of people is a consensus-led decision, ie you have work across the sector and in varied environments and clients before you get promoted.

The three male partners I share the sector with are huge dick swingers, constantly taking the young, female consultants out for drinks and dinners, bringing them in on high-level client projects, giving them lots of career "opportunities" and promising them promotions that they can't deliver. I have heard the partners tell them what they earn when they are drunk (which is the same as I earn except I don't talk about it) they take the consultants out, buy them dinners, go to parties and events. I instead approach the consultants in the prescribed company style, which is that if they have a specialism in a certain sector, or want to learn it, you bring them in to a project.

Somewhere along the line, they have developed the idea (probably from late night drinks with the male partners bragging) that I am more junior and will not be as helpful to them as the male partners. And this is simply not true. It honestly feels like a huge amount of internalized misogyny. As a result, the "pool" of consultants available to me for my projects is very small, despite the fact I bring in business revenues equal to (and more!) than the male partners in the sector.

I also get a lot of borderline comments from the consultants (obviously conditioned by the male partners) eg, I asked (let's call her Becky) Becky to get involved with a project I was doing. It was definitely something within her stated expertise area, and she was the right person to work with me. She came to me in my office and said : (Let's call him Martin)

"Martin and I have decided that I am not the appropriate person for your project because he needs me to be "on call" for another project he might have coming in."

There have been times when I have been called for help by the male partners to "go and deal with" some of the younger female consultants who have become very upset at work or are crying in their offices. I talk to them and they open up to me and I tell them that I want to help and want to find them a solution. I offer them advice but it's always accepted with a caveat around how I can't possibly be as powerful as "Martin" or the other two partners to change things for them, and a kind of (to paraphrase) "thanks but there's nothing you can do."

Obviously the power structures here are completely off.

Short of walking around shouting "do you know who I am?" What is the answer? And don't say HR as I've had several conversations with them (mostly women) and they all roll their eyes and say they know, it's shit, that's what the male partners are like.

Any key words or phrases I can use?

I’d circulate your organagram and state, quite directly, that you would like to provide clarity on the lines of reporting.

Swing your own dick.

That sounds tough OP. I have a couple of thoughts:

• can you instruct people to join your projects? If so, I would have said to Becky 'I'm sorry that isn't an appropriate response. I have a project that needs your skill set now. You cannot sit it out in the hope that a better option comes along. That is unprofessional'.
• more broadly I do think you need to cultivate a bit of strategic irritation. That is not to say you should be angry with people but you should feel affronted when people assume less of you and you should show it. 'You can't do anything' should be met with 'I am one of the four senior leads here, I can and will help you resolve this' and then do that. When people make remarks that assume you are a junior partner I'd pull them up on it.

Talk to the female partners in the other countries.

Surely there is a more tenured female partner in another office (abroad?) who has had to overcome the same barriers?

I guess it depends on whether you want to martyr yourself on this issue or not. It’s sexism and it’s unfair. These young women are benefitting from the attention at the moment so they are unlikely to take your side, if you raised with HR, it could work against you- and for what.

If they want to raise it with HR, that is their right. They might not see it the way you do, though.

if I was you I’d focus on myself at work and not what these other women or men are up to, as it’ll only waste your own time. If you need their support on a project I’d explain why you need their help in a pragmatic and purpose lead way. Ask for their help and motivate them to join you, leading with the benefits to them, the client and the company. Your professional persuasion skills will have got you where you are already.

hope this helps.

This is all solid advice.

4 managers, all over a team of the same 15 people sounds ridiculous.
There should be 1 overall manager. Not 4.

No wonder everyone is confused as to who is in charge and you and the other 3 are competing for personnel. They’re running rings around you. No wonder too that these young women have to put up with the wining and dining of the 3 male partners. They probably think promotion is based on votes so you need 3 of 4 managers to like you…so you’re not going to refuse the “mentoring” of the majority of them.

Id be seizing the lead. I’d set up a weekly or monthly meeting with the other 3 to go over upcoming projects and coordinate on which consultant gets what project all with their professional development in mind as well as what is best for the company. Then, if I wanted Becky for my project, I’d be telling the other 3 in no uncertain terms Becky is going to be on my project. Then there wouldn’t be any of that back door BS of Becky running to one of the other partners and telling you, oh I can’t I might be needed for Bob’s project. Because then you fix her with a steely eye and say, Bobs on board and we 4 are all in agreement you are doing my project.

I'd call a meeting of the women and say to them pretty much what you've said here.

Call them out on the internalised misogyny. Tell them that they do good work and don't need to kiss the male bosses asses to get far in life.

You're a boss. So be one.

Get out. It's too much and too many people to deal with alone. You would need support, and good support at that, but you are outnumbered.

Not only are you outnumbered at your own level, but you seem to be outnumbered at a junior level level as well. It's not helpful advice, but what the other partners are doing is working well for them at the moment, and they will continue to behave in this way as long as they can. One day though, there could come a time where is all turns very nasty and it will come crashing down on them. All these drinks, parties, these promised promotions and don't materialise....it smells of trouble. If I were working in HR or even PR for your company, I'd be concerned.

you should feel affronted when people assume less of you and you should show it. 'You can't do anything' should be met with 'I am one of the four senior leads here, I can and will help you resolve this' and then do that. When people make remarks that assume you are a junior partner I'd pull them up on it

@user1477249785

That's a good thing to try, but when people are assuming that the OP hold less authority, they are probably not doing so based on some misunderstanding of her actual title, and it won't necessarily matter to them if she protests their assumption. It's because they can sense there is a certain dynamic at work and they clearly think the other three have more clout than the OP.

As I said, the OP is also outnumbered. The 'you can't do anything' might be their cynical view of the situation, and unless the OP is going to create a bit of a shitstorm to stop the greasiness, then their assessment is correct.

4 managers, all over a team of the same 15 people sounds ridiculous.

Lots of larger organisations have made the shift to matrix management. It works really well for project based work, but there does need to be a high level of clarity and structure that OP’s setup seems to be lacking.

The rest I agree with. Although I’d probably make the meeting monthly.

Depends how much you can be bothered to give a shit.

Because whatever you do won't change things

When are the three musketeers retiring?

Yeah, wasn’t sure on the meeting frequency. I guess it depends on how fast moving the projects are and the size of the portfolio.

I’ve worked in matrixed organisations, and they’re not typically set up like the OPs. You’d never have an employee with 4 line managers competing with each other to assign you work.

Call an all staff meeting a d in that meeting explain the hierarchy of the company. Then state that you have been made aware of certain unprofessional practices within the company and an email will be issued after the meeting outlining how each team member be tasked, starting today. Remind the staff that this is a professional company and anyone seen to be acting unprofessional from now on will be directed to HR immediately.
It's clear the staff do not understand the management structure and it is not running professionally. Either sort it, or start dusting that CV off, because it won't change unless you put it right.

Maybe it depends on industry, then. I’m in the third sector and I’ve worked in very similar setups to what the OP describes (without the toxicity, gross sexism and wining and dining, thank goodness). It worked well for us, very collaborative. However, I can see how it could be utterly shambolic in the wrong hands.

Probably. My industry was the military. We always preserve a clear chain of command.

You have to learn the skills involved in this way of dealing with men. My friend is absolutely amazing at this. It is psychological warfare though and you seem to be expecting it to be fair. It really isn’t.

Leave ?
im wincing reading this

this is a culture issue , and a gender issue but it won’t change unless they bring in more senior female or more enlightened partners

in the meantime start developing some succint responses

but id 100% get that cv dusted off

I think I would be jumping ship. Take your skills to where they will be appreciated

@bangingmyheadagainstthewall2
Seems like it could be debated that the male partners need to stop having a cockoff, and over influencing the others, which then has led to this.

But I'm guessing there were some " iceman " type characters with influence

Sounds fake. Just say you feel overlooked at work by younger women and keep it moving

Any key words or phrases I can use?

I'd be telling them to fuck off and go and set up my own practice without any chauvinist pigs or handmaidens.

Surely Becky needs to be told she’s working for you. She doesn’t get an option. The response here I would have thought is, dickhead is not my manager and if your skill set is needed on my project and you are free, you will be working on my project. These women aren’t your friends. Nor are the men. They are your work colleagues.

I saw a recent post on here about a woman, who’d been to an all girl’s school. I can’t remember it exactly. But it went something like this. The girls all worked on the principle that they talked themselves down to 75% of their worth and that worked well because it was amongst women. Then when they got into the workplace, they met men, who were bigging themselves up to 125% or more of their worth. And yet that 125% wasn’t as good as her 75% so she had to rethink her strategy.

The 50 yo men you’re talking about are doing it for their ego. They are expecting women to eat out of their hands and doing that dick swinging thing some men love to do. This is where you come in. You’re kind of buying into this bullshit and I get it because it’s intimidating. You are worth equal to them and a lot more by the sounds of it so change that 75% attitude to 150% because that’s what you’re easily worth in relation to their 125%.

If you stand up to the men, chances are they’ll become like naughty school boys, sniggering with the Ooh teacher is upset now attitude. Can you practice your best poker face, withering looks and start walking around like you own the place?

Move firms

Whether it's law or accountancy/finance, the job market is good at the moment

If you really don't want to, I would arrange a day in the induction programme where you explain that no one partner has more power than the other and that promotions are by consensus and there is no short cut to this no matter what someone might say to you. With the team now, I would send out an email to them all to remind them of this - if necessary, say that you're reminding people because a few of the newer members seem confused by what the process might be so you wanted to reiterate it. Stay factual and no one can dispute it!

I think you need to stop concentrating on the perceived internalised misogyny aspect.

The younger staff have seen the lay of the land. They are going with it. It’s likely they understand exactly what’s going on. It’s extremely unfair of a senior manager to expect young women to be the ones to change it or work against it. Why should they risk their own development and careers to make a stand when the Senior Female isn’t.

You have no idea what the men have told them. They will have implied or told them that you are less senior than them. There will be the ‘well technically she is the same level but that’s not how it is’. I can’t blame the younger women for doing what they think will help further their career.

You need to start dick swinging. People need to know and see what influence you have over their careers and development and why workinf with you is advantageous. You need to be ensuring that people know you are an equal to the men on the same level as you.

Becky should have been told it wasn’t for her and Martin to make that decision. Then Martin should have been told.

Culture changes come from the top. Stop holding it against the women near the bottom.