Can this emotional affair ever become a relationship?

[Captainfairylights]

I have been in what I suppose is an emotional affair for five years. We met when I was unhappily married and he was recovering from a breakdown. We work together. We had an immediate connection, he clumsily initiated something, when I responded even though married, he brutally backed off. Very bad start, but we were held together by a joint project, and an underlying connection which has never gone away.

In the last year I have left my marriage and am building a new life. He has recovered and is a much more settled person. He takes me to lunch regularly, always nice places, he always insists on paying. We have come to know each other well, , we know about each others kids, lives, pasts. We have mutual friends. We have grown to like each other. During Covid we started to ring each other for support, and met up in the day from time to time in whatever ways were possible. He is still walled off to me in an essential way, but less so.

I feel something has changed but I do not know how to act on it. Recently I screwed up my courage and invited him to see a place I am renovating to live in. (It is an interest of his). He has always said no to any invitation I made before, but he said yes to this and he loved it. He had never seen anything of my life before.

We have never kissed. Please don't flame me for being a fantasist. I want to suggest we meet for dinner but I am afraid of the rejection should he say no. The stakes are very high when we continue to have this project together. The only dinner we ever had was the first one at the beginning where we drank too much and I tried to talk about what was between us and he flipped out. It was awful. So our meetings have always been alcohol free lunches. That was five years ago though, and so much has changed.

I'll stop now and hope there's enough here that you can advise? I feel the relationship (for me) has to become a real one now or stop. But I am afraid of this. I think we both are. Maybe this is why he has kept me at a distance but never let me go.

I think age is relevant here though. People in your age range don’t jump onto relationships and at his age he may think the ship has sailed.

Good luck. Just stop thinking about it so much and resolve it.

Yes I agree with this.
Thank you.

This is all too much hard work.
The blunt truth that if he was interested in a normal stress free relationship with you, he would have initiated that by now.
Get out there dating and meet someone less complicated who can meet your needs, rather than you stressing about what you can do for him.

I had an emotional (ours was sexual too) connection with someone like this.
He prefer to keep me at an arms length, he got the full on girlfriend experience for minimum effort.

Turns out he was getting this from a few others at the same time.
Honestly I was heartbroken because I thought I had something genuine, but it was all projection on my part and if I'd kept my wits about me I would have been able to see all the signs that this was all in my head and there was no genuine connection at all.

I'm guessing your friend is getting what he wants out of the current arrangement and does not want more. Your 'relationship/friendship sounds very shallow (as mine was).
Why if you had an amazing woman in front of you, that you enjoy their company, you are friends and you are both straight and available not see if it could go somewhere.
Answer: Because he's not interested in it going any further.

It reminds me of 'The Remains of the Day' film with Antony Hopkins and Emma Thompson, a story of such longing.

Like you say you are basing all of this on his initial attraction at the beggining, five years ago.

It sounds utterly painful, I don't envy you, but I do think whatever becomes of this relationship I think I would be exploring other avenues, if wanting a lover and partner are what you desire.

In other words don't place all your eggs in one basket.

Thank you @loottie . What were the signs that you missed?

It is shallow in the sense of it not being a relationship, but not shallow in the creative sense. He has changed my life with our collaborations. I think I have seized on that too much, however. He has got just as much from it as me. I may be outgrowing that part and therefore the rose tinted specs may be coming off. I don't know how I feel about him without the creative side.

If it had become an affair at the start, I think it would have burned out.

Yes! That's really helpful. That is kind of the dynamic. And what I am afraid of if I don't speak up. But I am afraid to... and that is how the years go by.

I think I lack confidence in what I am without his esteem. That's not really anything to do with him.

Thank you I will think about this.

When will this work project come to an end? Would that mean that you wouldn’t have any reason to be in contact and not see each other? What do you think might happen then? If you are feeling anxious about the end could he also be thinking about it? Maybe that would be the real spur one of you needs to be prompted to take action if you can’t pluck up the courage to try and face it head on before the end. Why are you lacking in so much confidence to try and deal with this? It matters to you a lot doesn’t it? You said, right at the start, that you had mutual friends: Jane you not tried to talk to them about this? Have they ever said he has asked them about you? It shouldn’t be like this - this is what happens when you are at high school but you’re an adult woman now? Are you just a dreamer who is too in love with your dream? If you really want this don’t wait for divine intervention or fate, you need to go after it with a club like a hunter. The truth is going to set you free.

I don’t know
best case - he fancies you but is
emotionally unavailable
worst case - Is he has mainly friend feelings for you , which is lovely but not what you want ?

i know you have got very attached to him and understandably so

but I’d consider putting yourself out there ?

and try a man who wants to rip your clothes off x

In answer to your question, the signs I missed?

• most important one I think, looking back, apart from right at the beginning, he never actually pursued me
• the 'relationship' progressed to a certain point then got stuck and didn't progress
• mental health issues meant he could always blame that for his distance and non-commitment
• had lots of these relationship with the women around him, but hadn't been in a serious relationship for many years
• never met each other's friends / families so always socialised alone, I don't think you can ever know someone unless you do this
• Never wanted to future plan (holidays / concerts etc)

There were other signs too, but those were the main ones, I'm kicking myself that I projected so much that I lost sight of the fact I was obviously putting more into it then he was, but he was good company and I was lonely.

most important one I think, looking back, apart from right at the beginning, he never actually pursued me

@loottie

Are you saying it was more of a situational courtship. that your relationship evolved by a commom ground, interest /work and so his intentions were never really shown as pursuing.
A convienient courtship.

I guess so, it was my fault in that I was swept up in the idea that if I was into him then he must be into me.

I then rewrote the narrative that was actually happening so I thought I was supporting him by basically lowering my standards. When I first met him I didn't consider him suitable for a relationship, but because we spent a fair amount of time together I caught feelings.

I feel hurt and that I wasted a lot of time mooning over him, when I'm sure he didn't give me a second thought.

@loottie

Thank you.

You explain well.

@loottie Yes this is very clear and very like my situation.

Except yours in a grand passion compared to mine -- we have not even slept together! 😂

I am a dreamer, and have had confidence problems. I think he has taken advantage of that.

I have not challenged it, because I think at times I was going through so much that without the dream I had I would have had nothing. There is still an element of that.

Where you say you didn't see him as relationship material at first but then caught feelings, I think that is the same as me. Our connection was powerful but driven by his intense interest in me and my being stunned to have landed this high profile project, which was largely in his power, and seeing him as essential to it. It grew from there. I could not imagine being able to achieve the work on my own.

Can I ask, how did it end?

Thank you Larkstar. The part of the project where we work closely together comes to an end at the end of the year. After that it moves onto another stage.
In the previous years, another one has followed close behind, but this won't happen this time. So in my mind we really are facing the end of our forced togetherness.

I think you are right, this is focusing my mind. My life has changed a lot, I want to change. I feel I am selling myself short, through fear. I've asserted myself in other areas. I am uncertain about the future in many ways. This may be why I am clinging to him.

I talked to one friend, who said this was abusive. And a close colleague who said I needed to suck up my feelings about his behaviour in order to succeed at the work. In any case I felt completely stuck because to fight with him meant the end of the project.

I sound like I've got Stockholm syndrome or something!!

Outside of this, I didn't discuss with anyone, except a therapist when I really was in crisis. I felt foolish, and also he is very well regarded and a lot of people would think me lucky to have this level of personal attention from him.

The "relationship" has had such a hold on me that there has not even been space for me to consider how/if and in what ways I like him.

The trouble is, I find there are always two ways that the situation and he can be viewed. He is a master at maintaining the middle, never doing something so definitive that it can't be rowed back from.

Like you say, the truth will set me free. I am starting to think that the truth of it will never come from him. It will come from me, from what I do next. That is what I am trying to face up to.

@larkstar I should add re. the mutual friends/colleagues, yes, he would talk about me to them. The friend who said it was abusive later had cause to go to a work event with him. They were sat together at dinner and she reported back that he talked about me all evening. She said he seemed really nice. He reported back that my ears must have been burning, But I think it was focused mainly on my 'talent'. Not my personal qualities. Other colleagues remarked on how focused he was on me, again, in a sense of my work. They thought it was a bit weird. I took it to mean that he was really into me, but could only express it to these people in terms of work. It didn't really advance anything, except my own feelings. And I have done the same, talking him up to friends and colleagues, never saying I am actually in love with him.

Shine a light on this, tell him.

Then as they say in Project speak, you have a Go/ No-Go. And you can start your future. With him.or without.

However, personally I would slow fade and find someone who would treat you better

It's not an affair if you're both single is it?

@Tootels I was married when we met.

@Captainfairylights

I’m not sure what the ‘more’ is that you want? It sounds like you have a nice companionship - but you still have your own space and freedom. That’s good isn’t it?

And was it really ever an emotional affair - if you’ve never expressed your feelings for one another…

Good point. I've never said I'm in love with you, nor has he.

@Captainfairylights you asked me why my situation ended.
Well it ended because he told me he was having sex with 2 other women (previous relationships) he obviously wanted me to know as he felt ashamed because he knew I wouldn't be into that dynamic.

I then asked on here how I could protect myself health wise if I was having sex with someone who had multiple sexual partners on the go and basically had a log of common sense advice which made me realise I was somewhere I didn't want to be and it gave me the excuse/nudge to do what I should have had the foresight to do all along and finish it with him.

I miss him, but I also realise it's because I'm lonely and I miss parts of being in a relationship. But I also love being single and he was dragging me down.
I also read a thread on here about the fact that men gain a hell of a lot more from relationships than women do, we give more than we get. This was so true in my case and I decided to wake up.

MN has saved my arse many times over the years!

Holy shit @loottie what a bastard. And you had no idea?
I don't think my guy is having sex with other women (I don't think he's having sex at all, I can't stress how ill he was), but there's a good chance he's got other EAs. I think he needs the life and intensity and admiration I bring, because I think he isn't capable of a full relationship, and is very lonely himself. He has said as much. And being married / overly romantic / lonely / not able to sustain a relationship myself we have have fed off each other.

I feel like a crab without a shell now I've left my marriage. My fling opened my eyes to the fact I had a body and was attractive, but it was too much for me to sustain, I wasn't ready for anything real. I haven't the faintest idea how to have a normal relationship, which is why my EA has fulfilled such a powerful need.

Yes, this thread (my first after years of lurking) has done me the world of good. Thinking more clearly instead of round and round.

I am at the moment concentrating on the project and pulling back on the contact, being just professional. Then I think the next step will be clearer. I don't know exactly what I should do, because all the suggestions here make perfect sense. But this little first step to clear some space to look objectively and meanwhile not destroy the work seems a start.

I hope you meet someone nice soon. You deserve it.

@Captainfairylights @loottie you see why I asked about the possibility of there being something in his private life you didn't know about? An ex-friend of mine revealed that after his divorce he had settled for using massage parlours for sex - great sex with amazing young women - he wasn't bothered about relationships as a consequence - he could afford it.

Well I knew he had a longterm small group of women friends he kept around for emotional support and sex.
I had assumed that the emotional support and sex I was providing meant he was no longer turning to them for sex, turns out I had assumed wrongly.

Because we were not actually in a relationship (that was my choice too - I have lots of other life changing things going on in my life at the moment, plus I am a classic avoidant 😁and a divorcee) so I'm not as upset by it in some ways.
I also consider myself very high value in lots of ways, and I have to try and remember not to sell myself short because its easily done (see 90% of the relationship board on MN).

It was also an interesting study in how the tap, tap, tap of my relationship/friendship standards being nudged to where he wanted them, and not where I would have started from that surprised me.
Compromise bores me, so does lack of progress, so that made it easier to knock it on its head.

It also showed how much I want to be genuinely loved, and love, and how important that is to me. It was a valuable lesson for myself to keep going for what I want in life rather than what's in front of me just because it's easier (because it isn't). I have so much to give, if the person isn't worthy, then i will save that nurturing, time & energy for myself.

This post was about me, but I am sure it will resonate with you Captain.