Can this emotional affair ever become a relationship?

[Captainfairylights]

I have been in what I suppose is an emotional affair for five years. We met when I was unhappily married and he was recovering from a breakdown. We work together. We had an immediate connection, he clumsily initiated something, when I responded even though married, he brutally backed off. Very bad start, but we were held together by a joint project, and an underlying connection which has never gone away.

In the last year I have left my marriage and am building a new life. He has recovered and is a much more settled person. He takes me to lunch regularly, always nice places, he always insists on paying. We have come to know each other well, , we know about each others kids, lives, pasts. We have mutual friends. We have grown to like each other. During Covid we started to ring each other for support, and met up in the day from time to time in whatever ways were possible. He is still walled off to me in an essential way, but less so.

I feel something has changed but I do not know how to act on it. Recently I screwed up my courage and invited him to see a place I am renovating to live in. (It is an interest of his). He has always said no to any invitation I made before, but he said yes to this and he loved it. He had never seen anything of my life before.

We have never kissed. Please don't flame me for being a fantasist. I want to suggest we meet for dinner but I am afraid of the rejection should he say no. The stakes are very high when we continue to have this project together. The only dinner we ever had was the first one at the beginning where we drank too much and I tried to talk about what was between us and he flipped out. It was awful. So our meetings have always been alcohol free lunches. That was five years ago though, and so much has changed.

I'll stop now and hope there's enough here that you can advise? I feel the relationship (for me) has to become a real one now or stop. But I am afraid of this. I think we both are. Maybe this is why he has kept me at a distance but never let me go.

Yes, I guess I could have at any point just given him an ultimatum but I never did. And I have wondered why. I was married, faithfully and unhappily for 17 years and I did lose sight of myself. I think he came into my life, 'seeing' me in a very strong way, and I haven't had enough sense of myself to know if it is love or just gratitude gone wrong. I'm frustrated that we are both single and I still cannot just simply utter the necessary words and accept the consequences.

I've been there and it's painful. I would ask him on a date and just gage his reaction and take it from there. It can't be anything worse than this constant unknowing.

It’s difficult to know what to say. Could he have some part of his life that is completely hidden from you? I’m speculating wildly but could he be undecided about his sexuality or gay for instance? You describe him as a seemingly unlockable person so are you the person who could unlock him or is communication about deep, complex or confusing issues going to be a pendant problem if you were to try and start a relationship with him on another level? What does he want out of life? What is he missing, what did he need? Someone to trust? Does he have or do you have, enough evidence to convince or persuade him that you are someone he can trust? You want a relationship with him but so you want to be his psychiatrist, counsellor, carer, etc is that what you want? What do you want from him? Could he be that for you? Relationships are very complex things, they, like all of us are full of contradictions. Is he growing as a person or capable of growing - it sounds like he needs to to me - it’s not a healthy sign if he’s going to continue to use and repeat the same anxieties over having been hurt and not wanting to trust anyone. But, depending on how much of a mature adult you think you are, how strong you feel in yourself to be able to work through whatever it is that is holding up this stalemate in your relationship, maybe all it needs is a confident push from you to open up the conversation on a new level, for you to put your feelings out in the open, for you to discuss how you feel about him and the possibility of a different relationship - you’d need to plan this carefully so you could make sure you cover everything - write it down, plan it, go through it to make sure you haven’t forgotten to say something that needs saying - check that your words are chosen carefully - put your big girl pants on and be prepared for him to back away and to try and shut down the conversation - obviously it’s important that you put it to him that whatever the outcome, you still need to be able to work together - I’m wondering if you need to present a very reassuring approach, that you need to convince him that whatever the outcome of your conversation, that everything is going to be ok - think of a mother talking to a child. You seem to want closure on this. I guess it’s hell being stuck in limbo-land - maybe it’s time for you to be an adult too and try and bring this to a head. I can’t imagine, given what you’ve said, that a relationship with you hadn’t crossed his mind - ask him about this - you need a full and frank discussion about third and many other things - if you can’t have these open, honest, deep and meaningful discussions - is this a relationship worth having? I also accept he might need some time to get his head around all of this if he hasn’t given it much thought - my opinion is that women severely underestimate just how blunt and direct you have to be to communicate something to a man - honestly subtlety and suggestion is a complete waste of time imho. Perhaps be prepared for him to need time to take in the discussion - perhaps be prepared to hand over your notes and questions - I would be seriously impressed and flattered to see that sunshine had taken so much time and made so much effort and put so much thought into having this conversation. Maybe he’s not ready atm and maybe he never will be - what’s it going to take? You’d be taking a risk and being very courageous to Jane this conversation with him - perhaps he also needs to pick up the courage to do something to change his life. Is he happy the way he is and with the way his life is going atm? Maybe he would need time to come round, to warm to your suggestion. It’s difficult. I’m not afraid of difficult conversations, I’m not afraid of being hurt (and yes, I do have feelings and I do feel hurt but that’s okay, I can work through it) and I’m not afraid of saying the wrong thing mainly perhaps, because I think my intentions are good, that my heart is in the right place. If you do decide to go ahead and talk to him and it doesn’t go well I wouldn’t immediately think it was a bad decision to bring the things up that you feel the need to talk about and I also wouldn’t think that him not reacting well immediately was a bad outcome either - obviously it’s not what you hope for but - do you think it might open up communication on a new, deeper and more meaningful level? Would that be helpful to you both as you continue to work together? Maybe you ate mistaken or deluded about the potential for a relationship or about him as a person - maybe it’s about time you know where you stand then perhaps you can move on in your heart knowing that nothing worthwhile is ever going to develop. Apologies if I’m way off - I’m just trying to help. I just think it’s tragic to be stuck not knowing our understanding what the score is, all for the sake of someone having the wherewithal to have an adult conversation and say what needs saying.

It seems entirely reasonable that he made himself ‘unavailable’ to you while you were married, and maybe that has become a pattern? Now you’re single and he’s in a better place mentally I would say it’s fair enough to see if your relationship can move to a different level, it may be he’s as uncertain of your feelings as you are of his. I’d either ask him directly or be more cautious and ask him out for a meal, or something more date-like than your usual meet ups and see what transpires. If you don’t get anywhere, then I think you have to accept you’ll never have more than a friendship.

just tell him you want more and if he doesn’t then never see him again.

you cannot have any sort of friendship with this man it is not healthy and you cannot afford to waste five more years of your life this way.

stop overanalysing him and tying yourself up in knots. Life is too short. I would find you exhausting and it would be very difficult to contemplate a relationship with someone like this for many people.

soory I don’t mean to come across as blunt but you need to do something decisive and accept the result.

I think say to him you are ready for a relationship in your life and that if he isn't interested in persuing that with you then whatever you two have needs to end so you can can put energy and focus into meeting someone who has similar desires as yourself.

Thank you so much for this. Yes, I think there is a part of him that's hidden. I don't think he is gay, but I wondered if he was/had been impotent. He was very ill, and on a lot of drugs which can have that effect i guess. The way when it came to a line, when once crossed would mean I would be expecting something physical he absolutely freaked.

Obviously I do not want an impotent partner. Obviously there has been no context in which to ask if that was the problem. He would not let me near enough.

He does give to me, in terms of support on things, but no, it's not like I have given him. He has a brilliant mind, which I have had unfettered access to. In his way, he is constant, and very kind. Increasingly I know he trusts me, and he does open up to me. He said recently that when he met me he was very ill, I think trying to explain. He has said he regrets his behaviour.

When we met last, I asked him some of these things. What did he want from the rest of his life. I always feel I have to be gentle and not push too hard. It is clear to me that he wants change, a fuller life. He is talking about redecorating his flat, committing to it. His son lives with him at the moment. I have visions of Steptoe and Son, and obviously I don't want that either. He goes out more, sees friends. He is definitely healing, but not there yet, but I think wants to be. I think he is very strong in his way, and I admire it. Not many people return from total breakdown.

The work is coming to an end. This is why perhaps this is now pressing on me. Part of me fears what will happen when we do not have this tying us.

I do like the picture you paint of a proper discussion. I don't know anyone who has done such a thing. I feel that what we have achieved together deserves something more than just an unspoken end.

I do not know if he would be enough for me. He understands my work, and therefore me, and is the only person who ever did. All my relationships have ignored and stifled that side.

Thank you again, for thinking that it's worth this serious thought.

It sounds like you're just friends tbh but you want more. In five years something would have happened by now.

You're not wrong @whiskeypowers. I am exhausting. I exhaust myself.

I do need to do something decisive. I'd just like for it to be the right thing.

Yes, I think maybe asking him out, to dinner, would clarify.

You say the work thing is coming to an end. Then you will find out one way or another if there is anything bigger than the work tying you together. Honestly? He sounds too much like hard work. Love and relationships are not always easy but they should be mostly easy and if you have to ask yourself if he likes you thins often, then he doesn't. Not in the way you want him to.

So yes, now that work is coming to an end, just push it a little with him. If he backs off then you have your answer. Either he doesn't want it to go further or he does but is so damaged he can't. Either way it's dead in the water

I'd accept his presence in your life as friendship. Stop trying to turn it into something it's not.

Tbh I think he's not the right person for you. His past MH issues would make me wary.

Thank you for all your replies and insight. Really helped me.

I think this 'non' relationship has in some ways been your security blanket.

Maybe a reason and choice for helping you end your marriage, a hope for something more tangible in your life, most women by the five year mark would have drawn a line under it and moved on but I think you are holding on for numerous reasons.

I would seek a councillor to try to unpick your reticence in being alone, alone with a view to finding someone who is truly available. How often do you see this man ? is it daily, or much less, I mean do you really know what's going on in his life, he may have many women who he likes to keep dangling in the hope of more.
Some men are really keen on these ego trips, you may be one of many, and as for friendship, I don't think this is one, he is not being honest or upfront about his intentions or emotions, I think he is quite cruel, for I think he knows full well how much you like him.

Peronally I would keep my distance and protect my heart.

I see him probably once a month. It's more than it was because I have moved since I left my marriage and we are in the same city. It is a non-relationship, I agree, except in the passionate belief he has demonstrated for my work, and being always available for me in that way. I have never had someone believe in me, and so yes, I have become extremely attached to that.

Interesting that you say he is cruel. I told one friend about it early on, when I was truly tormented by his hot/cold and all of it and she said it was an abusive relationship. I genuinely do not have a model for what a relationship should be. Because no one else saw that side of him, when I tried to tell people that this was an abusive relationship they did not believe me, (only this friend did) and the only way out of it anyway was to stop working with him, which would have been catastrophic for my career. I did have a panic attack one time, after a meeting with him. He was really hostile (this was in the office) and I had another meeting after and had this panic attack. There were times I thought I have just mixed up love and hate and that I actually hated him for behaving the way he did.

I have fantasised about just leaving him. My fling gave me a glimpse of what it would be like not to think about him all the time. But the fling was very controlling, so I was really swapping one thing for another.

I know at the heart of this is boundaries and never having been able to be alone without my equilibrium being disrupted by a man. My DH was also like this -- controlling and distant.

As time has passed the EA and I have got to know each other, such that I do not think him out to destroy me. I think there's a dynamic, certainly, that I seek out and participate in in every relationship I have had.

I suppose I hoped that the sheer longevity of this, the fact that we had never crossed the line, and that we have this work connection would mean this might be something that could evolve.

I probably do need to talk to someone to unpick who I am in amongst all these men. I love my own company and am really excited about my new home and life. I would love a loving relationship though.

Can I ask how old you both are?

I think there’s no chance of it developing into a relationship, i think you should take a step back.

Agree with the above in that you need to stop letting this consume you and just act. There's a lot to unpack here but really, up until now, you've not crossed any lines at all...

Do you really fancy this bloke? Do you want to kiss him when you're together? Does he give you butterflies? Or do you just have a great connection, trust, you support each other and stuck together through difficult times? Figure that bit out.

Just stop letting thinking about this possible relationship take over your entire headspace. You need clarity - do other things, have other projects, stop talking to people about him, just really reduce the amout of minutes a day he's on your mind. Focus on you, who you are, what you want... You've just been through divorce, it's a big thing to process.

He sounds... complicated. Bear in mind that any relationship you might have woud likely be complex. You must really be into the person a lot to take on board so many up front issues in a potential partner. Sounds like he may be battling confidence and self-esteem issues among other stuff.

To do something decisive in the right way... Don't be melodramatic, do not state your feelings going back years, etc, etc. He doesn't need to be at the receiving end of that. Flirt with him, make your intentions clear. Keep it simple and light - say you'd like to see him and see how things go and ask him on a date.

And accept the outcome. With a deep emotional connection, there's always the danger of dragging it on, giving it another go etc. You don't want to be left wondering what could have been, but don't cling on to hope, really listen to what he says and take it at face value.

Yes, I am 54, he is early sixties.

My behaviour over this must make me seem immature I am sure.
In my defence (if I need one) I feel I have been cut off from normal feelings for a really long time, and am doing a certain amount of growing up now I've left me marriage.

@WhiteChocMocha Yes, I was considering just the asking out to dinner thing. Not lunch. I feel that's been done. The timing is quite important.

Yes I fancy him, although he wasn't my 'type' exactly when we met. He's quietly charismatic. I haven't been able to burn through it as I think might have happened if we'd got together at the start. His keeping me at a distance has maintained the pitch of it all for me.I have struggled to see him clearly if you see what I mean. I would describe it as being in thrall.

When I had my fling (it was with someone completely physically different) I found the EA kept appearing in my head during sex in sort of fantasy way and often it was that that tipped me over the edge! Oh dear TMI. But I didn't start this thread because I am feeling normal, so I guess there's no point holding back on the detail.

I don’t think he fancies you, and I think he sees you as a friend. Men generally aren’t that complicated. If they want to be with you, you know about it. It’s not hard, there’s no second guessing, and there’s no need to ask for advice. If they want you, they’ll text, they’ll phone, they’ll ask you out on dates, and they’ll be romantic (with varying degrees of success). None of this is happening for you.

I can't imagine fancying someone so much who does not reciprocate it back.
The only person I fancied so much was the man I ended up marrying. We were a match physically, I don't mean to sound rude but would you consider yourselves a physical match ?

I'm just saying if I ever were to fancy someone out of my league so to speak his lack of interest would kill any feelings on my part, I couldn't live on thrall (as you put it) alone, or any unrequited love.

Maybe you are a match in certain ways, could there be other factors why he will not start a commited relationship, his children, grandchildren etc, maybe he's still involved with his wife or ex. You really cannot progress without information and knowledge and I'm afraid that means conversation. At 60 plusI'm sure he's a big enough boy to understand your need to know.

Have the talk.

I don't think he is out my league.
My posts have been quite long but buried back there you'll see the start of it all was him clumsily initiating an affair.
There is a charge and connection between us which for whatever reason (which I'm trying to get to) has been strung out over all this time without being resolved.
I know people normally have relationships where men behave in these predictable ways. I have had them myself.
I am trying to understand and extricate myself from this one which is not normal.

Yes, I must have the talk. I agree. I'm just trying to work out how.

Sounds to me like he knows how you feel about him. So the fact he hasn’t made any attempts to do something since youve Been divorced speaks volumes. I don’t think he’s interested, sorry.