Overbearing FIL

[Sthldnmum]

My FIL phones my dh everyday, often more than once. He’ll ring and ring until my dh answers. He demands to see (via WhatsApp) my dd every day and my husband will always oblige, interrupt what she’s doing and shove his phone in her face (she’s 20 mths old). She’s mostly disinterested!

He also expects to see her, and therefore us, every weekend/ every other weekend, for an entire day. He adores my dd and is lovely with her, so it’s important they have time together, but I just find it too much. He’s always there. On the phone or in person.

He guilt trips my dh to see him. I hear the conversations and he’s unbelievably manipulative and controlling. My husband is basically left with no choice, if he says no, his dad hangs up and goes off in a huff and the whole day can be ruined as my dh is left upset and trying to make amends. It’s sad, as it’s all down to my FIL being lonely and insecure.

My FIL never married and my dh is his only child, so my husband feels obliged to be there for him, which I do admire, but it negatively impacts in our marriage. The constant phone calls and bickering between them (they always bicker!) imposes on our evenings and is so intrusive. My FIL is the one of the only things we argue about. He’s like the third wheel in our marriage!

He’s quite old and I now have the guilt that he won’t be around forever so it’s important he sees his gd as much as possible. I can’t argue with that as I’d feel awful if my dh is left with regret. So what? I just have to put up and shut up until he dies?! Spend the next 10-15 years having my life controlled by my FIL? It’s miserable. I’m miserable.

I speak to my dh about the issues frequently,, asking him to set boundaries eg fewer phone calls, stop expecting to see his so often, but nothing changes. They’re in this cycle of dependency and I can’t change that. I’m not sure it’s my place to interfere with their relationship.

I guess the only thing I can do is change my attitude, as I hate the things I say and how I feel. I don’t want to feel all this anger and resentment. I just feel stifled and trapped and that my free time is being controlled, so I lash out at my dh.

What can I do to cope better with this?

Is your FIL Jewish ?

I can see a pattern that I see in a friends life.

No. He’s a non-practicing Irish Catholic, if he’s religious at all.

I'm so sorry.

You talk about changing your attitude but please cut yourself some slack - this is a difficult situation and you are entitled to feel fed up.

What does your DH say when you have raised this / argued about it before?

What would be an acceptable level of contact for you?

Have you considered marriage counselling - an independent third party might help you and DH to find a way forward?

Also, it's easier said than done but other than those times when you are tackling the issue head-on and actually seeing your FIL face to face, try not to sit and think / stew about this - it increases the anger and resentment and makes things worse.

I would also suggest reading Susan Forward's Toxic In-Laws: Loving Strategies for Protecting Your Marriage.

Sorry, me again - I missed the paragraph where you said you had asked DH to reduce contact but nothing changes. Apologies. I'm just wondering if he acknowledges the issues at all and is willing to compromise / make changes, or if he just thinks that you should go along with whatever his father wants?

He’s a narcissist not a lonely old man

I’d also be very worried about his effect on your DD. At 20 months she doesn’t take much notice of his daily order to see her but over 5, 10 years she’ll be learning that a man demands, she’s made to comply. His whole attitude seems very unhealthy.

Thanks for your responses, they’re really helpful. My dh completely understands where I’m coming from and, to a degree, feels the same way, but he’s also torn and feels stuck in the middle. It’s a horrible position for him to be in.

I too have wondered if counselling might help us as we’re currently just going around in circles.

@Cantthinkofanewnameatm gosh, that’s a really interesting and worrying thought. It’s something I’d not considered, but you’re absolutely right. He treats my dh like a child, bossing him around and talking down to him, it’s all very unhealthy role modelling for her.

I wonder if telling your DH this might give him the strength to set some boundaries? Doing it for DD's sake rather than his own might offset some of the guilt. Definitely read the Susan Forward book tortiecat recommended and share what you learn with DH too, this will only be solved if the two of you approach it as a rock solid team.

That doesn’t seem that far out of the ordinary if I’m honest. My in laws live a couple villages away and pop in every few days to see the kids. Grandmother and grandfather in law pretty much every day as we live in their dog walk route. My family are always in and out of each other’s houses. Close families can be like that and if he’s an only child/she’s an only grandchild then I can see why he would want to see them and speak to them daily.

Another one here who thinks it sounds quite normal from the examples you give. I think it’s wrong to tell your DH how often he’s allowed to talk to/text his dad - I would not accept that from a partner, but I can see how if he’s wandering round the house on the phone bickering that will be annoying. You could ask him to take the call elsewhere so you can have some peace.

You do say you feel like he’s controlling your life which I’m not trying to invalidate, it’s just I don’t see that from your examples. Like talking to DD on WhatsApp, yes she may not be interested, but I think kids being briefly interrupted from playing to say hello to a grandparent is not harmful or concerning. Visiting a grandparent roughly 3 days out of every month, again, doesn’t seem excessive.

I imagine your DH is in an awkward position stuck in the middle. Your perception of things is that he’s being guilted into spending time with dad. Whereas I wonder whether he’s trying to juggle to please two people making oppisite demands of him. I imagine on some level he wants to see and speak to his dad but also doesn’t want to piss off his wife who he has to live with every day and parent with.

I read a similar scenario years ago.
The advice was to flip it around, i.e. get your DH to phone your FIL rather than the other way round. In this way, your FIL will not have to chase your husband and will come to expect a call and maybe reduce his contact as a result.
Worth a try?

Both you and your DH appear to be in a massive FOG where your FiL is concerned. That would be Fear, Obligation, Guilt.
Fear "I can’t argue with that as I’d feel awful if my dh is left with regret. So what? I just have to put up and shut up until he dies?! Spend the next 10-15 years having my life controlled by my FIL? It’s miserable. I’m miserable."

Obligation "He demands to see (via WhatsApp) my dd every day and my husband will always oblige, interrupt what she’s doing and shove his phone in her face (she’s 20 mths old). She’s mostly disinterested!"

Guilt "He guilt trips my dh to see him. I hear the conversations and he’s unbelievably manipulative and controlling."

So, if your FiL goes off in a huff because your DH stands up to his father and says "No" every once in a while, which of these situations is likely to happen?

1. Your FiL will bend (even ever so slightly) and behave better so that he can see his granddaughter
2. Your FiL stays in a huff and you get some peace and quiet from his demands while he remains in his childish temper tantrum

The way I look at it, they are both wins for you and your DH. The first step though has to be your DH standing up to his father and saying "No Dad, you can't see Amy* today. We're busy and we have plans. I'll be back in touch with you soon to arrange a day when we can meet up"

What your FiL is doing in relation to the phone calls is actually harassment. If it wasn't from a family member, if it was a stranger, you'd report it to the police and get a restraining order in place, wouldn't you?

The asterisk beside the name - I meant to add at the bottom of my message that I don't know the name of your child so I just threw a name in the fake conversation.

I hope you're able to find a solution that works for you, your DD and your DH.

Perhaps a few normal innocent plans where you can't be at his beck and call may help. Could you see friends and other family members instead so you don't allow him that contact...plus switching off the WiFi connection for WhatsApp or just declining the call may help that situation. Its intrusive for your dd and she will notice as she gets older that she is expected to stop everything for him.

@LookItsMeAgain You’re completely right about the FOG. That’s really interesting and makes so much sense.

We DO need to stand up for ourselves more and learn to say no, when we want to. Perhaps if we do it more often he’ll get used to it.

I’ve also said to my dh that we need to make more of an effort to pleasantly and willingly invite in round, so he doesn’t end up inviting himself and then feeling rejected if we say no.

We both work full time and our weekends are precious. Something we need to spend time as a nuclear family either doing something nice or simply slobbing about as we’re exhausted!

@pantsville i really appreciate your viewpoint and a part of me knows you’re right!

if it was my MIL calling and wanting to see us all the the time I probably wouldn’t mind as much, as she’s super lovely and chilled. It’s just my FIL is a tricky character and it’s quite draining seeing him. He can be on top form and it’s good to see him, but he does have a propensity to bring negativity into the house and we have to talk out him and his issues for hours!

i do, however take your point on board. I need this perspective!

Great recommendation. This book is worth its weight in gold and has probably saved many a despairing DiL/SiL's sanity.

This one's definitely an Engulfer.

Just thinking about your situation @Sthldnmum , could you invite your FiL for dinner one evening a week? If it becomes a regular thing, then you get that time back for yourselves at the weekend. He could pop around or you/your DH could pop over to his for a couple of hours at the weekend. Whoever isn't visiting granddad, does the vacuuming/shopping/general chores while the others are out.

"I’ve also said to my dh that we need to make more of an effort to pleasantly and willingly invite in round, so he doesn’t end up inviting himself and then feeling rejected if we say no".

Please do not do this. It just plays into his hands.

Would you have tolerated this from a friend, probably not so why are you at all tolerating this crap from your toxic FIL?.

He does not feel rejected if you say no so much as pissed off that you have refused him. This man has and continues to walk over the pair of you and you are both mired in FOG. He sees your own kindness as weakness and the two of you as people merely there to serve him and give him lots of admiration in terms of narcissistic supply.

If he is too difficult/abusive/batshit for YOU to deal with, its the SAME deal for your daughter as well. FGS keep her well away from such a toxic influence here like her grandad or she could well end up being in FOG herself like you people as her parents.

Your DH shouldn't be 'stuck in the middle'. He should be on the side of you and his DD. He is perfectly able to make different choices and be willing to do so even at the risk of upsetting his DF. Currently he's choosing to meet his father's wants and upsetting you.
So he's not in the middle. He's on his DF side.
Wrong priorities.

Your DH has been conditioned from an early age to put his own self last and his dad first. His inertia when it comes to his father hurts him as much as you and your daughter. This is how his dad also is able to get his own way all the time and your DH still seeks his approval even now. Your DH does not need his dad's approval any longer, not that he would ever give this to him anyway.

Your DH is indeed very much afraid of his dad and feels the sky will fall down upon him if his dad does not get what he wants. I would encourage your DH to seek therapy on his own re his relationship with his father. At the very least he needs to start reading Toxic Parents by Susan Forward and Dr Ramani on Youtube. He may also want to watch Kevin on The Royal We's youtube channel.

My FIL never married

I can see why nobody would want him, that's for sure. My ex and his dad had a similar relationship, where exFil was the dominant Alpha male, and remained so until he was literally physically too frail to defend his position.

Honestly, I don't know what the solution is, other than your DH standing up to him big-time stylee, and I can't see that happening from what you've said.

You could thinking about your DH taking your DD round to see your FIL without you some times too. This could give you a break from your FIL but also a little "you time" to yourself.