Fleeing emotional abuse with kids

[Anonymices]

Have been in contact with Women's Aid and they have confirmed that dh is definitely emotionally and verbally abusive. They have advised me to leave our home with the children ASAP. They have put my name down for Refuge and have advised putting in an application to the council for accommodation. Has anyone else done this? Needing a handhold. Really scared he'll kill me if I take his kids away from him (and 'question his character'). I can't put up with the abuse much longer, especially with the children, but these next steps seem so huge and the nature of the abuse it is so hard to prove. Read the Lundy Bancroft book and got a lot of understanding from that, but everyone else won't have done that. Worried that everyone will think I'm being ridiculous and believe him when he says that he's never done anything (he claims that I ruined his life when I spoke up once, many years ago, and I have been severely punished since).

Is it even reasonable to flee from abuse if it is almost purely emotional/verbal?
Yes, it is. Never mind what it is doing to you, I know from experience that it is horrible to grow up in that type of situation. I realise now that my father used being horrible to me as a way to get at my mother (and, as I grew older, vice versa).

Being scared is no way to live, not for you, not for your DC.

OP you are going to do the normal divorce thing. It’s going to happen. But you’re going to do it from a position of safety and power.
If you tell him you’re leaving him in person, he might hurt you. Both you and WA think this is a real possibility. Don’t take the risk. Get safe first.
The other thing that might happen is he just laughs in your face and tells you only he can decide when or the relationship ends. And then he’ll ramp up the emotional abuse and work twice as hard to alienating the kids from you. So don’t let him. Leave in secret then when he’s had time to calm down he can negotiate access to the kids via the family court. WA clearly think this is the best course of action. So don’t feel guilty about it. It’s highly probable that he will get some access to the kids, but you need to be in a position of power, and have the backing of solicitors, WA and maybe Social services to make sure this contact between your kids and their dad is safe for them and for you, and that he can’t cut you off from them.
Take the refuge place. You’ve been offered it because you need it.

sounds like you have no experiences of DA or of a refuge hon.

And yes, it does happen.

I've lived in a refuge and left DA where the man actually tried to kill me in front of my child.

It just sounds implausible for SS to build a case where children are removed because mum is suffering emotional abuse, which in itself is pretty vague. I'd ask you to point me to a case but the family courts are not open to public. Did you witness this personally? Do you have any indication of how often such a thing occurs?

Yes, I did. And I have. And as well as witnessing it - with more than one woman a solicitor confirmed it to me it happens.

And no, I don't have any stats. As you know the Family Court matters are supposed to be confidential - and disclosing any of that would be a criminal matter in itself.

Well that's shocking and somewhat overzealous but I would suspect that the cases involved far more than just emotional abuse of the mother, because what would they even base that on evidence-wise?

How would they convince a court that a mother was suffering emotional abuse without any corroborating evidence such as a conviction for the perpetrator?

If it was that cut and dried the system is even more terrifying and corrupt than I thought.

Does anyone have any examples of emotional abuse

Main one is gaslighting.

The term is used a lot now but basically it means not tellling you the truth about anything. And when you notice there is something not quite right in what you are being told - you are labelled as 'crazy' etc.

It is not to be taken lightly. You don't often know that it is happening until months, possibly years later - and when you do find out it is a bit like peeling back layers of an onion - nothing that you have been told ever really existed, or was different to how you were told it was.

There is also financial abuse google - survivors of economic abuse who have a helpline if you are experiencing this and lots of guides on the subject.

Yes would go with the statement that a lot needs to change.
See also three planets theory of domestic abuse as to how it is often viewed by so called professionals.

academic.oup.com/bjsw/article-abstract/41/5/837/1640422

Also this may be helpful
cpdonline.co.uk/knowledge-base/safeguarding/understanding-cycle-violence-domestic-abuse/

Thank you

What if they don’t know or don’t think they are being emotionally abusive or dont mean to be

Well removing a woman's children because SHE is suffering emotional abuse seems.... emotionally abusive. I wouldn't put it past the family courts but I still don't believe it has ever been that simple because it just makes no sense given emotional abuse is not even a crime and I am baffled as to how a case could be built on something so vague and would be horrified if the solution was to remove the children instead of remove the emotional abuser.

I guess I hold the family courts in higher estimation than I thought because I think that's too low even for them.

Coercive control is a crime
so is financial abuse.

See links and information mentioned.

Your view of the Family Court - I have to say is naive.

But off topic.

Here is a woman leaving for a refuge hopefully, so right now that is the priority as others have said.

This is a really good question. May I very gently suggest that the reason you are asking it is because you have experienced gaslighting.

There is a book called 'Why does he do that - which is quite famous and basically explains that actually they do know exactly what they are doing.

There is also a very important online and in person course called 'The Freedom Programme'. It is a lot for you to take in right now but suggest you google it as soon as you can.

Refuges often have group recovery programmes like this , it may be useful for you. You can do the Freedom Programme online though.

The basic point is - as others will say too - you need to leave as you can't and don't want to take the chance that things will escalate.

Others will also say that leaving can be a very dangerous time indeed. So bear this in mind. WA for advice.

eos/search?q=why+does+he+do+that%3f&docid=608035423924263734&mid=346B57EA5D5BC5B53C95346B57EA5D5BC5B53C95&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

sorry didn't get the link right but you will find lundy bankcroft interviews on you tube. Good luck

@Differentnameagain my H doesn't consider his behaviour abusive - he thinks he is justified because I have disappointed him and he doesn't have the wife or life that he wants. He is just trying to get that (back).

But what I'm not sure is if others would think he's abusive. WA seem to have quite a low threshold? Like they will always assume the worst? He claims that I am controlling and I think that he is. What if I am partially to blame?

I hear what you are saying @TwoWeeksislong but it just seems very OTT for what is essentially a moody H who blames everything on you. My main motivator though is when I see him using the (young) children in his scheming, or stonewalling them. But does that sort of thing happen in all marriage breakdowns? I know people say they didn't know how nasty their partner could get.

Sorry but they never would consider their behaviour abusive.

Narcissists like that as you will find in the research don't walk into a G.P surgery and say 'I think I'm abusive/a narcissist' - 'I need help for that'.

You will find people in prison getting treatment for narcissim because they have to if they have narcissist personality disorder.

WA does not have a 'low threshold' - at all, their resources are very strapped and anyone who is offered a place in refuge can consider themselves lucky. Many women don't get out at all.

And the other thing they do is immediately project things onto you.

That is why you are doubting yourself.

There is something not right about this thread.

I've reported it.

If this is a genuine woman leaving for refuge she shouldn't be talking about it here anyway.

@perseverence do you mean that you don't think that I should? That it is just me being oversensitive? I can't really talk to many people IRL and I'm confused.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/2386282-social-services-tore-my-family-apart

For those who are under mistaken idea that social services never take kids away...due to DV

@perseverence - many many women have posted on here about leaving and going into a refuge over the years I’ve been on here. Why on Earth wouldn’t they? It’s often the only support they have as if they are in a abusive relationship they have often been deliberately isolated from family and friends and don’t have support in real life.