Can it be just as damaging to have an absent father as an abusive one?

[Cookiemonster83]

The court seem so focused on having abusers in children’s lives do they know something different?

Are there occasions where it’s better for a child to see for themselves what their father is like rather then hold a false idea?

My daughter has started seeing her dad after 3 years apart ordered by a judge because of his emotional abuse. She has started to refer to him as her hero. (She is 6) He really is far from that but it seems she has this built in love for him. I wonder if perhaps it’s better for her to find out that he isn’t then for her to be kept away and have me to tell her he is not and she not believe me.

Nope I would say its far more damaging to have an abusive father than no father at all. I was raised away from my incredibly abusive father and its the best thing my mother ever did for me! I married a man who was EA and I removed him from my children's lives and it was the best thing I could have done for them. They are all happy and well grounded people with a malevolent, toxic father.

• without their malevolent toxic father in their lives.

From my experience, it's incredibly damaging to not have a father in your life. I'm nearly forty and still not over it.

I understand why I wasn't allowed to see him, but it would be a lie to say I'm not permanently damaged by it.

It depends how 'abusive' you are talking. There is a parent who is a bit fucked up and there is abusive. The complexity of these situations make my head hurt, I do not really know how judges weigh it up. But if someone is very abusive then I think it is better to see only with supervision or to not see.

I grew up without a dad, met him in my late teens. He turned out to be a dickhead. Yes I have some emotional issues I think with self love and confidence but I suspect it would of been a lot worse if he had stayed in my life. I have a fantastic relationship with my mum, my DH and my kids so I'm pretty happy with my lot 😁

How do they rate the levels of abuse tho. On the outside my ex looked like the perfect man and father. He never hit me but emotionally beat me until I had a nervous breakdown and became physically very unwell. He was like a dripping tap over a decade. I though all abuse stems from the same place really and are there worse abusers then others, they all have the sam agendas.

Family courts are a horrible mess, OP. It's often a case of who managed to throw the most mud at the other party, who lied the most, and in particular, who charmed the CAFCASS officer best.

I grew up without a dad, I haven’t been affected in any way .

Was he abusive to you or to your child? Sounds like it was to you? I hate how people on MN make out like not having a dad doesn’t affect kids, as someone whose kids dad is absent yes it does affect them, not all kid’s are the same.

I grew up with an abusive parent, I would have grown into a much more rounded, confident adult if that parent hadn’t have been in my life at all.

Family courts do not focus on what is best for the children.

I doubt it. Abusive parents make you grow up with a twisted view of how relationships work - you can have anger issues, sexual issues, psychological issues like BPD. Plus the feeling that the parent doesn't love you.

With an absent father, I think you'd avoid basically all the list above, aside from feeling unloved if you were specifically aware that your dad is absent by choice

Yes, it can be as damaging to a child to have an absent father as an abusive one. Damaging in different ways, but still damaging.

The sad fact is that abusers aren’t always abusive to everyone in their lives. There is no guarantee that because your ex was emotionally abusive to you that he will also be emotionally abusive to his child, as you’ve acknowledged by stating that he looked perfect from the outside. Your daughter has the right to know her father.

I would've preferred to grow up without a dad in my life instead of the 'father figure' I had, I would've been a much more confident person. And I might actually remember childhood

@SpinningFloppa he is abusive to everyone. Everyone in his life he has placed to play a part. Family members colleagues friends are great as long as they play the part he wants them to, if not he will act. He is abusive to our daughter, he uses her for supply. He says things to her that make him feel better. Eg last week she said children look like the parent who loves them more, daddy said that’s why I love just like him.

Im not sure an abusive person has a normal relationship with anyone. She will be effected by watching the relationship he has with intimate partners she is around and anyone really in his life.

Abuse from a parent will leave all kinds of damage. Varying degrees of abuse will leave varying degrees of scarring.

IMO it's better not to have an abuser of any sort around a child. Yes children could be wounded by the absence of a parent but children are easily manipulated and moulded. Everyone in their life will shape them into the adult they become.

I was fine without a father .

Then I had a step father who was an absolute abusive shit .

I know what did me most damage. And it wasn't not having a father .

I feel like I was fine without my father. I did get to spend some time with him as a teenager and he wasn't wonderful, that is for sure, but probably the biggest saving grace I had was my older brother who was very protective of me.

There is no comparison between someone who removed themselves from a child’s life and someone who purposefully inflicts trauma on a child in any form.

I accept that an absent father causes issues and has an impact for some children growing up but wondering why someone left you is not the same as wondering why someone is making your life a living hell.

I removed my children from an abusive situation with their father. He was not only abusive to me and I was not going to let that happen. He is not allowed to see them and I know it is the most important thing I could ever have done for them as their mother.

I think people can change. I think with age and maturity, some men can change from being abusive to the mothers of their children and become really good fathers, and go on to have non-abusive relationships with future partners.
I think children have the right to know their fathers as long as the fathers can care safely for them and parents can learn to coparent.
ofcourse, some men just walk away or are too damaged to remain in their child’s life and it’s terrribly sad if that’s permanent.
but o do believe in change and I think children will always have love for a parent no matter whether they’re part of their lives or not.

I believe fathers are as important as mothers and I do take the courts and SW line of if the abuse was towards the mum and not the dc it's the childs right to still have a relationship with their dad - unless the abuse is dangerous enough for the childs mums life to be in danger. The type that would be managed by various agencies and police. Even then supervised contact may still be in the childs best interest.

The child has the right to a relationship with both parents. It causes great trauma to dc to not know one of their parent.

Thankfully new and much needed legislation in the form of the Domestic Abuse Bill means children who witness abuse are also now classed as victims in their own right. Simply put a sue of the (usually)mother is abuse of the child.
it is outmoded and regressive in terms of safeguarding for courts to continue to operate in ignorance of this.
equally harm has a very far and wide context and psychological as well as emotional trauma is as life damaging as physical abuse some might say more. The scars of emotional trauma take longer to fade than physical ones.

Furthermore the court will usually take the child’s right to a relationship with both parents seriously as long as this is in the best interests and welfare of the child.

That is a vital caveat. Along with the welfare checklist, any findings or admission or abuse as well as ascertainable wishes and feelings of a child the court has a serious duty to consider how ANY abuse jeopardises the welfare and best interests of a child in that regard. Some might say the bar is too high still but nonetheless the courts responsibility is ultimately the child and not placating parents

Of course a child witnessing abuse is a victim of DV. However, if the parents aren't together anymore and there is no more abuse taking place in front of the child then the child should still have a right to a relationship with it's parent if it is safe to do so - ie no abuse towards child.

This. I got off “light” and only have CPTSD; both my siblings have BPD/serious addiction issues as a result of an emotionally abusive parent (unfortunately it was the resident parent, so we were stuck with them).

My abusive ex decided the worst thing he could to me was abandon me whilst I was pregnant/have zero interest in our child. It was actually the best thing, my 8YO is a happy, confident child, and everything else me and my siblings stood a chance of being.

I’d like to agree with you but my experience and sadly many others is that many abusive people do not change.
I would also like to add that for a child - particular a young child, and in the absence of any proven alienation - to develop a deep seated and sustained fear / negativity towards a parent means that often intractable damage has been done in some specific context. Children do indeed want to love their parents and many child victims of abuse still love and care for people that name them. So when that negativity and sustained antipathy towards another parent occurs sadly something very serious is normally behind it.
therefore I think the assertion that children will always have love for a parent is naive and not rooted in the realities of many children who are the victims of abuse. Abuse has ground down and eroded their love and trust to the point it vanishes. Children have no filter and don’t approach issues the way we do as adults.

In my professional experience dc end up becoming angry, feeling unloved, feeling that something is wrong with them for not knowing the absent parent between 14 and 16. Especially boys.

Neither one is great but dc who know their other parent, even if he was abusive to their dm, if it's managed correctly where they aren't hero worshipping the abusive parent, where they have the security from mum to see him for what he is and not take it personally do not have the same intense abandonment issues. Abandonment is a trigger for BPD just as much as abuse is.