DP and 'gambling'

[CrabLinguine]

DP and I have known each other for 7 years, been dating for 5, no kids, probably not ever having any. We used to work for the same company, I got promoted, moved to a different department, and eventually DP quit right about the start of lockdown because he felt like his career was 'going nowhere'.

He became a self-employed day trader, started trading options, made a bit, but ended up losing far more as he kept opening new trades saying that he's going to make back all his money. Since then he has moved to crypto in addition to options. Same thing, he made a bit at the start, pumped more money into various currencies, and is now trying to make back all the money he'd lost again. It's not traditional gambling but the way he goes about it seems like gambling to me.

Recently he's stopped putting money into the joint household account we use for bills, groceries etc shared stuff (he claims all his money is 'tied up in investments') and in fact has used the joint account to pay for things like his bloody glasses and other personal stuff. Confronted him about it and he claims I'm controlling and that the money should all be shared anyway as we'd be married someday and that if he 'makes it big' (I'm trying to be supportive but I have serious doubts) it'd be my money too... How would you go about dealing with the finances if your partner 'gambles'?

Word of warning to you though, my ex tried to take out a loan on our joint account.

I only found out accidentally when I rang the bank for something else and they asked me if I had asked for a loan. I hadn't. Close that account.

Gambling is a hobby where you only pay what you can afford to lose, and accept that generally you lose money overall or break even just about, however you accept that for the thrill of the gamble.

Investing is a career, that pays you money ie you can either live off the investments or someone else pays you to invest on their behalf.

He is gambling with your money. He isnt making money off it and may never. Did you agree to supporting him when he quit his job or was it just presented as a done deal?

The 'it's our joint money' is only a valid argument if you both agree on this, you agree on large joint purchases, and you both contribute to the relationship (eg both work hard in a viable job and put in what money you make, or if one of you doesnt financially contribute its because they are bringing other things to the table eg caring for joint children and doing all the housework). He is doing all the taking and you're doing all the giving- that's not a partnership it's a parent/ child relationship

Fucking run, just run do not ever be linked financially to him. Losing money is inevitable in this economy is so wrong. Bet he is listening to dubious online people who can quite easily convince others that they have the ticket to the next big trade.

If you are a professional trader who knows what they are doing you make money whether the markets are up or down. If you are chump, following snake oil merchants you are likely to lose money in the biggest boom ever.

My god take your money and run. He needs to to talk with you about things and pull his weight.

He will ruin you. This is your warning and it’s up to you how bad you’ll let this leech hurt your life. It’s all up to you and on you. Don’t be passive because you’ll deserve no sympathy. You know he’s taking advantage, stop him.

NO MORE JOINT ACCOUNT!!
If you really want to stay together at the very LEAST you need to seperate your finances completely. Living separately would be more sensible. If he kicks off about this because he is expecting you to finance his living expenses while he gambles his money away, you need to reconsider this relationship. How can you ever build a life with a man that essentially has a gambling addiction instead of a job?

Echoing everyone else, it feels like gambling because it is. Definitely run your credit report and I believe there's a marker that can be put on your file to prevent anyone taking out credit in your name, I can't remember what it's called but it means lenders have to do extra checks on any applications to make sure it's actually you, do that too.

Obviously that still leaves the issue of your relationship and how you deal with that has to be your decision but I think you need to start seeing him as the addict he is and treating him accordingly. Protect yourself from as many angles as possible while you figure out what you want to do but I think it would be very difficult to continue a relationship with someone you can't trust, and you can never trust an addict.

So for 2.5 years he has been sat at home trading stocks and made nothing?

Did he do this as a job before?

At best Sounds like he is simply investing. Which is a long term money growth plan. I am talking years and years. This is something you should be doing along side your work. Even if he is trying to attempt FIRE, he would have spent years investing and preparing. Investing a is long term and so you benefit from the highs and lows, but benefit in different ways. But you only benefit if you stay in for years. You should have an emergency fund and you work alongside it until you are in a position where the investments make enough to live on. loads of MNers are into investing along side their job, there’s actually an investment board if you want to know more on how it works. Losses are only actual losses if you remove the money from the investment during a low. As a long term plan, it’s far less risky.

At worst he has pissed all his money up the wall on bad trades and now is taking out of an account he isn’t adding to. Trading is gambling. I don’t know anyone, even people who actually do it as a job, that says different.

At no point, in either case should he have all his money tied up in investments. He is now using joint money to live off, because he has no capital left. Any investments he has at the moment are unlikely to make a lot of money in the next few months. So is he planning on depleting your joint account on an ongoing basis.

Does he pay he share of the bills? How much money did he start with? How much is ‘tied up in investments’?

Take your half of the money (or whatever you contributed) out of that account and take your name off. A joint account will have you linked on your credit file. Please don’t get sucked into ‘yeah but one I will hit it big’. He probably won’t. On the off chance he does, he is addicted and so will piss that money up the wall.m, chasing the next big win. You can tell his addicted because he is not making good decisions with money now trying to chase the win. He has convinced himself he is entitled to money in the joint account for his own living expenses.

If I were you I would have a conversation that basically goes, I want to support you, but I have no idea what’s going on or what your plan is or how this will end up in a big win. If you want to continue sharing finances I need to see the investments and talk me through them. Get him to show you how much he started with and how much he has now a timeline on when he will start making money. Get him to explain it and show you. I am going to guess he won’t want to.

He must have had a lot in savings to believe he could just quit work and do this, so he has high earning potential. Working alongside investing would give him more investment opportunities.

Investing is a long term plan, which he has no need to give up work for. Trading is pure gambling and should have made money over the last 2.5 years.

It’s not tied up in investments it’s gone. He has nothing. He needs to face it and stop. He needs to get a job that pays and isn’t him losing more money each month. The easiest way you can support him in doing that is by stopping bring his income source. He then has nothing further to invest/gamble away. I’m sure he believes it will come good but not at the moment , and not with his 0 income!

Read the thread in AIBU 'DP is hiding something.'

Will do something about our joint account this afternoon.

He's never felt like a 'cocklodger' but here's the timeline anyway:

Start of lockdown, DP quits job and was supposed to start a new job
In between interviews he found out about options trading through this reddit sub
Decided not to accept the new job
He started 'studying' (I put studying in quotes because it consists of mainly reading reddit threads and watching YouTube videos and attending random seminars on the web)

At this point he's still living off his savings so I took it as him having a bit of break from work

DP starts his new 'job' as a day trader, his main focus is options
First couple of months he made a bit, barely anything tbh but still a profit and he was still contributing to the joint account. There was this time he made a few thousand £ so thought he was finally getting into the stride of things. Next month the money is gone and he has to withdraw more of his savings.

DP finds crypto and made a bit. He spends all day on reddit at this point and for almost a year he plods along barely breaking even but still contributing to the joint account so no complaints.

Last 2 months he's stopped putting money into the joint account. Had a few conversations turned arguments about it but he says everything is tied up in investments now.

I believe he's depleted all the money we were each saving up for a house (plan was to go 50-50 but we were saving separately) and all the money his dad left for him but I cannot confirm it because he refuses to let me see his investment account. Lots of arguments about how he's doing it all for us even though I don't care about striking it rich or living a life of luxury I was content with how our life was!!

Both early 30s.

So you know he has gambled away his savings. You know he is now expecting you to live out of a joint account he is no longer contributing to. He hasn’t been saving for a house as you agreed.

He has a problem. A gambling problem. I would suggest you walk away. He wants blind support from you while he spends your joint savings and his habit and hides all the information from you.

You can’t fix this. He will leave you both in financial ruin. And he doesn’t care about the impact on you and the life you are meant to be building. You will spend the rest of your life monitoring him and worrying about money.

Dont buy a house with him. Don’t buy a house (if that’s possibility) alone and let him move in. He is going to bleed you dry. If he actually cared, he would have for a job a long time ago.

There's another thread on here by a lady who's dh has spent all their money, plus the money he's borrowed from family and friends and lost it all through stocks, shares, crypto etc. it's just another form of gambling wrapped up in banner of 'investing' and palming it off as a job. Ever heard of Nick Leeson Barings Bank?

The household bills should come out first and foremost before he 'invests' any money. He's a gambler with a problem, and until he admits that, you and your home are at risk of bankruptcy. In your shoes I'd also check your credit rating to make sure he's not borrowing in your name.

This is your life now.

Living with a gambler for the past two years who had money to lose.

Now its gone and he has started to bully you that he has some big plan to make money for you both.

All bullshit.

He's just another gambler and you are just another partner caught up.

This is YOUR LIFE until you start placing value on your future.

Believe me when I say there is NOTHING but lies, misery, stress and the gutter waiting for you with a man like this.

He is in the grips of an addiction and will drag down anyone foolish enough to hang around.

Also remember you get caught up trying to see him through this, save him, and all that bullshit that some women get sucked into, your life will forever be going forward, worrying about money, never trusting him with money, always having to be the adult in the relationship because he will NEVER be trustworthy with money.

A shit show.

.....and as for having children with him, don't do it. Men like him steal from their own children.

Seperate your finances today.
Pack your bags.
Tell him its over.

Don't be dragged down by him.
You are the Titanic if you stay with him, and his an iceberg that will truly sink your life, hopes and dreams.

You are too young to sacrifice yourself and your future.

I hope I have spelt it out clearly enough for you.

Do NOT be guilted by him, that is generally what they try to do to the clever women who exit the relationship.

You owe him nothing.

Good luck.

Investment is a long term plan, with a mix including a base of normal dividend-paying shares in real companies etc. Index trackers, pension fund type of things. Maybe property.

It's not not risky, too good to be true 'get rich quick' schemes like crypto. They're gambling. If you 'win' it will probably be due to someone else losing out, not that underlying assets are genuinely increasing in value (crypto often appears to be high tech Ponzi schemes)

You would have to be completely crazy to pay all the bills while that financially illiterate man gambles all his money. Seriously, get out of that relationship ASAP.

For your own sake you need to end the relationship. You need to care about your future. He doesn’t.

Nothing will change while you are enabling him.

Sorry OP

The timeline has been a series of red flags you've gone onto excuse or minimise ultimately at great cost to yourself.

If you continue to sacrifice your future on this deadbeat gambling addict that is your choice. How did this become your "norm" and why too is your relationship bar this damn low?.

Did you grow up seeing addicted parents or relatives?.

Op il give you a comparison for investing over gambling. Investing is long term (decades) and with a good proportion low risk low reward. There's no immediate gratification or expectancy to lose big and be able to make that back quickly. A good friend of mine worked in a steady well paid career in IT. Made some contacts and started studying stocks (real companies) Didn't put any money in for a good year or so. Took a risk by going contracting which meant earning a lot more money in the short term. Put a % of that surplus into overpaying the mortgage and adding to long term saving (ISA) and then % that he felt he could afford to lose into stocks. Continued doing so for about 15yrs. As he got more experienced he put some into higher risk options, but only ever from that surplus money, kept his living costs low, his mortgage overpayments high. Basically he paid his way and built up his security.

He's now retired early as the mortgage is paid off and he's got a small income from the investments that he lives off. He keeps up to date with his IT skills in case he needs to go back to work.

The difference with gambling is the instant Vs delayed gratification. My friend saw little benefit of his investing for at least ten years, probably longer. You have to be very level headed to do it, there is no get rich quick scheme and the instant you're relying on the money - using money you can't afford because you need it to 'win' - you're gambling.

You would be absolutely out of your mind to stay with this man.

What exactly is he doing 'all for you'? Losing all his savings and inheritance and being unable to even pay his half of the bills. That's what he's doing and why would anyone want that? He's an addict and addicts are totally selfish and often completely delusional. He needs to leave.

A friend of mine is in a similar situation. She has just admitted to me that her DH has lost £40,000 day trading. And that's just what he has admitted to her and she in turn has admitted to me.

Worse than this he is an emotional rollercoaster- feeling the highs and the lows.

I couldn't do it. My DP earns less than me but at least he gets paid at the end of the month!

Sooner or later he will take your money, gamble it, and lose it. Prepare for that day.

Call Gamblers Anon OP and talk to them they will be able to help you see where the line is. He can't afford it, is now not paying his bills, is convinced the next 'win' will fix his past problems.

Gambling is an evil addiction, good luck

I left my husband due to this. I put up with his shitty 'investments' for 15 years and he lost about £100k. Why I stayed with him I don't know. Get out now.

How convinced are you that if he made a million he’s state it with you? Seeing that you are just dating I’d imagine the answer would be no. So personally I’d walk away.