Conceding defeat.

[AuntClara]

I'm conceding defeat.

I'm in my late 40s. A loveless, sexless sham of a marriage that happened for all the wrong reasons and ended 10 years ago. NC with my surviving parent for he past 10 years all the right reasons. Therapy. So much therapy.

Friendships that have come and gone. Relationships that have been few and far between and very short lived.

I finally started seeing someone this time last year. Well, not quite this time last year. I haven't quite made it to a year yet and I won't because I can't do it. I can't work out how relationships work. I can't tell if I have boundaries or blockades.

I've spoken to a friend about it but I'm just tired of thinking. Tired of talking and tired of feeling.

No significant relationships; and lost all but two of my friendships. I'm just sad at the thought that this is it.

I had so much hope. I can't bear to even see photos of myself as a child. She was such a sad, lonely, unloved child but she had so much hope for the future and she became a sad, lonely, unloved adult despite all my best efforts to the contrary.

I just can't do it anymore 😥

I don't have a question. I just wanted to put it somewhere.

The post above makes a lot of sense OP.

Try and stop thinking thinking thinking all the time. Believe me, I know that is a mission but really try. You sound intelligent, you write very well, perhaps keep a journal. Each day allow yourself 30 mins to empty your head onto paper. Then put it away for the day and try and just 'be'. It takes focus and discipline but it is liberating. Literally tell your mind "no". I picture a box in my mind. I put all my troubles in it when they are overwhelming me. I close it tight. I even sit on it (in my imagination!!) to keep it shut and NOT allow the negative thoughts to escape. It allows respite from your ever ticking brain.

Your partner sounds quite lovely to be honest. Try hard not to push him away. Try and believe and trust him unless he gives you a real, valid reason not to. Be fair on him, on you, on your relationship.

Sending much love, please keep talking here if you want to... i among others will be looking out for your posts xx

If this isn’t helpful please ignore OP.

But I think the blackness is clinical depression and you might need meds. Or it could be some other chemical / hormonal imbalance like thyroid disease that also makes you depressed.

And I think the imps and sprites are nasty voices from some significant but unkind / cruel person in your childhood. When you are mentally / physically / emotionally healthy you have the energy to tell them they are talking bollcks and to fuck off.

But when you are not, you don’t. And your start to believe their lies.

OP, if you enjoy being with him and he’s given you not reason not to trust him then you really shouldn’t feel you have to dump him.
Trust is not necessarily about truly believing someone would never hurt you. It can also be you deciding that, in the absence of any proof of bad relationship behavior, you’re choosing to conduct yourself as if everything in the relationship is going well. You give your partner the benefit of the doubt and enjoy the time you spend together. It’s called ´benefit of the doubt’ and not ´reward for certainty’ for a reason.
Of course, you can dump him for any reason, but please don’t punish yourself for your own difficulties with trust. Choosing to live with doubt is just as valid a choice as searching for certainty.

Oh OP. Such a lot going on and a lot to take in for me just reading. How you deal with all of this shit I hate to think but......... one thing at a time and not all of it together is the way forward

I was an unloved child. The oldest of four and the others all loved by my mother to the point where it was obvious I was not loved or valued and in turn my siblings all had little time for me.
I eventually went NC with the lot of them. Every meet, every 'phone call, every interaction was negative and wearing. Gong NC was the best thing I could have ever done and I do not regret it.
Why?
Because I matter.
I brought my children up to feel loved and wanted is how I dealt with the bad feelings I have around my childhood. I try not to dwell on it as it brings back the feelings of low self worth.
Jumping to your relationship. I just wonder if you are feeling bad about it because you expect it to fail and are almost trying to do that?
Talk to him. All you can do is talk.
The fact you are in a relationship must tell you that someone else is not repulsed by you and finds you attractive??

Something my therapist said to me has really stuck - I was a neglected, sad little girl and the grown ups let me down.

She said “Show up for yourself. Be there for yourself.”

It’s empowering to know that, even if people have been rubbish, we can be the best for ourselves. Live in the present, as our adult selves.

I stand with you OP. You matter.

Thank you for all the replies. Sorry, I haven't replied - I've been busy with work. I'll read them properly this evening.

I like this post but what really stands out to me is that I don't know what it means.

I can't tell whether I'm setting boundaries to protect myself or battening down the hatches. I can't tell whether my responses are reasonable and justified or a fear response.

I know there are those who would say it doesn't matter, I should just honour my own feelings and, whilst this is true and is where I'm currently heading, the reality is that it would look like me living an entirely isolated existence - no significant relationships in my life (friends or romantic relationahips). My family consists of 3 people. In fact, no other people at all.

The fact you are in a relationship must tell you that someone else is not repulsed by you and finds you attractive??

No. That's part of what is 'veiled' and I can't see properly.

OP, no-one knows what's going on in their partners head. That veil exists for everyone. As far as I'm aware, my DP loves me and wants to be with me. Yes, she gets mildly frustrated when I leave my socks lying round the living room, but I'm fairly sure she's not going to leave me over that or anything else, provided I don't screw up massively.

Now I might be wrong, for all I know every time she leaves the house she's out cheating on me. But none of the evidence points to that, so I don't believe it.

As far as I can see, none of the evidence points to the fact that your DP is on the way out either. But your mindset is unhealthy, so you're grasping for evidence that he's cheating, or will cheat, so that you can end the relationship on your terms before he can hurt you. You're pushing him away, and it sounds like you're doing it to your friendships as well.

You say your bandmates aren't your friends. Why not? You spend time with them frequently, doing an activity you enjoy together. That's friendship to me. They might not be close friends, but most people only have one or two people they'd really consider close friends.

Right now, your mind is unhealthy, and it's causing you to draw wrong conclusions and make bad decisions. If you had a broken leg, you wouldn't think "Oh, I'll just walk down the shops", but because it's the part of you thats doing the thinking that's broken, you can't rely on that thinking.

Listen to the people on this thread. Talk to your DP, and talk to your friends, and then listen to their advice and let them help you. Most importantly, let them help you talk to your GP.

You can see your GP. Tell your employers that you're waiting for a call from them, and you need your phone. If that doesn't work, take a weeks annual leave and try and get an appointment. Or take a few days off work because you've got "COVID".

You have a support structure, even if you can't see it right now. We can see it, even if you can't. Trust us that it's there and use it.

I only saw this quote today and it really resonated with me. I can be quite critical of myself and not see my positives. I could be wrong but think you might be feeling the same. The fact that your are nc with your parent shows that you have healthy boundaries and are able to respect yourself enough to keep them. Sometimes you could blame yourself for not having a waltons relationship with family, but a huge amount of family dynamics are dysfunctional. Do we wish they weren't? I certainly do but that's not in my control as it isn't in yours. How we are raised certainly follows us as adults. It sounds to me that you don't think you deserve to be happy (you certainly do deserve it) and are self sabotaging so no one gets the chance to hurt you. He could have been looking through your messages at that time last night unable to sleep or looking at pictures, it's so easy and detrimental to be mistrustful when you are waiting to be disappointed.
I'm so sorry you are feeling the way you are and understand why, but just wanted to say please try and show up for yourself xxx

Also I just wanted to add re friendships, lots are superficial. You only need one or 2 good friends. Most are through convenience or shared interests when lives and priorities change which they inevitably do these friendships can fade, that's just a natural progression. On your barriers/ boundaries....they are boundaries not barriers

fdgdfgdfgdfg

It's hard to explain. The veil isn't about not knowing or having certainty, it's more about not being able to see it clearly enough to even begin to process it and make sense of it. It's a thick fog. Not a lack of certainty. I can't really explain it. I can't even see it clearly enough to begin to understand what it is I'm looking at in the first place.

As far as I'm aware, my DP loves me and wants to be with me. Yes, she gets mildly frustrated when I leave my socks lying round the living room, but I'm fairly sure she's not going to leave me over that or anything else, provided I don't screw up massively.

I don't have that. I don't have 'aware' or 'fairly sure'. I've got confusion and blackness. It's like motorway driving on a dark night, when the rain is lashing down and the lights are distorted by the rain and you're trying to make sense of what's in front of you but you can't see it properly. I can't even see, let alone be aware.

I know that the emotional responses I'm having to some things don't make sense. But the rest, I can't tell. I feel like I'm standing looking at him through a very long tunnel. He held my hand last night on the way to the car. It startled me when he took it because I wasnt expecting it. Yet he always holds my hand.

I stayed at his and he cuddled me in bed and I cried. He didn't know - I turned away but I just felt so desolate and sad. He stroked my hair and asked if I was sure I was ok. I said I was but he didn't feel like my boyfriend; he felt like someone I maybe used to know in another lifetime.

He tells me that he loves me and I feel empty, distant and hostile but I do love him. He's got something on on Sunday. He's really looking forward to it and he's said he wants to to go. But I feel I'm 'cramping his style'; I'll feel I have to stay away from him and give him space to be with people he'd rather be with if I go. I'll make myself small. But just saying I can't go isn't a solution because I'll regret it if I don't go because I love him and want to support him. I feel he would be better off without me. I feel a distance between us but it seems the distance only exists in me. Because he is being no different. But that's hard too because on the outside I suppose I must look the same to him! But he did ask me a couple of times last night if everything was ok, which he wouldn't normally do.

It's not even that I don't trust him not to cheat. I've no reason to think he would given his relationship history. But I don't feel good enough or worth the sacrifice. I feel it wouldn't occur to him to even question anything. Maybe like the way some people who would never actually steal also wouldn't think anything of walking past the pick n mix counter in Woolies and taking a cola bottle. It's not the same... maybe it's different with me.

I don't want to talk to him about it. It's not his responsibility to fix me. He deserves to be happy and with someone who trusts him. Besides, there is nothing he could say that would make any lasting difference.

When you speak about the “veil”, it might be interesting for you to look up “object constancy”:

psychcentral.com/disorders/borderline-personality-disorder/object-constancy-understanding-the-fear-of-abandonment-and-borderline-personality-disorder#bpd-and-narcissism

And when you speak about yourself this way, it sounds to me like or form of “splitting”, that you have almost “painted yourself black”.

www.verywellmind.com/what-is-splitting-425210

I wouldn’t focus too much on the particular diagnosis mentioned in the links. Just something for your mind to use as a springboard.

To me you sound somewhat depressed. What do you usually like to do to lift your mood or feel more positive about yourself and the world? Any meditation, exercise, diet, helping good causes that you enjoy or could pursue in the future?

I have an adult son. He has said before that he thinks I have an issue with object constancy.

The splitting describes how I feel very well.

I don't think I idealise people. I'm well aware that no one is perfect and I obviously like them or I wouldn't become friends with them. But I'm very sensitive to any transgression. I've cut off many of my friends but I feel with good reason and probably only really maintain superficial 'close acquaintance' connections now. I find it difficult to accept an a good person has done something wrong narrative. I can still recognise their positive qualities but want nothing more to do with them. I was raised to have no boundaries. Not that they weren't respected but I was told off and punished for having them and cautioned against it. It's taken me a long time to get to a point where I feel I can remove people from my life if they disturb my peace. But I wonder if I'm sometimes a bit 'sledgehammer to crack a nut' with them; that's what I mean about them being blockades rather than boundaries. I think they might be so firm that they can only ever act to keep everyone out.

The problem is that sticking around beyond that makes me feel ill. Which is what I'm feeling at the moment in part, I think. I look for cues from other people and I've posted on here before to check so that I don't overreact if something has unsettled me. The consensus, when I've asked about things, has been that he is a decent bloke, just human, and wouldn't necessarily do things in the same way I would, and, knowing how quickly and easily MN can demonise a man, I feel I have to take that on board. But doing so is making me ill. I'm not sleeping properly, or eating properly. Everything is focused on trying to feel at ease when I don't.

He stayed at mine last night. He's already left for work. I was really trying to be 'normal' but we got into bed and he still asked if I was OK and if everything is OK, held me and told me that he loves me. But I just felt numb. I know I love him but I'm shutting down.

As for things I do to lift my mood. At the moment, I find peace sitting out in nature so I do that daily if possible. Even if its just sitting in the garden. I play my instruments. I'm working full time at the moment. I find that very draining and often come in from work and go to he'd within a couple of hours of being at home (usually home around 5.30) because I'm just exhausted from being 'on' all day.

How did your defence mechanisms respond to raising children, did you have a helpful partner?

The hard part of all of this is that difficulties in trust and all the defence mechanisms attached, can come across to others as low empathy or even callousness.

Sometimes, it’s all a self fulfilling prophesy, that causes the other person to distance themselves from you in the end… which can feel like abandonment, and a confirmation of all that you had feared. It’s a vicious circle.

Vicious circles CAN be broken, even with a sledgehammer! (Small joke)

No. I did it mostly on my own as a single parent with no support at all. I'm glad. I actually preferred it that way.

I've found parenting pretty easy tbh. I have 2 children and have a good relationship with both. I decided to just parent the opposite way to my parents did. I've since learned that I parented them with empathy.

The youngest one is more challenging and I find it very difficult when she gets angry or shouts. I tend to just take myself away from it and tell her that I'm happy to discuss things but I'm not going to stay there while she shouts at me. I get very upset by raised voices. I can't bear people shouting around me. She finds that difficult because she's quite like her dad - she gets angry and just wants to shout and argue until she feels better. She isn't interested in a solution or thrashing things out - she just wants to shout. I think she finds it cathartic.

I know I seem quite cold at times. By the time I've thought everything through to the point where I can talk about it and know what I want to say, I'm quite dispassionate.

I know I'm the one who pushes other people away. My only real friend said once that I keep people at arms length. I don't feel like I do. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do differently or what it would look like if I didn't. That's a protection thing. I've always been fearful of other people seeing the version of me that my mum saw. So I show them a version of me that isn't that. But it's a carefuly curated version. I can't really fully relax around people. I don't know if I feel that anyone else has abandoned me really. I walk away and I push people away.

I don't feel abandoned when I do but I do feel relieved that the risk has gone.

Your struggle with boundary vs blockade resonates so much with me. I also find it hard to know what is healthy and what is dysfunction in my relationships. I have an avoidant personality type and push everyone away because deep down I have never believed I am worthy of love, and so I 'act out' to get ahead of them leaving me and in doing so prove myself right. Vicious cycle. None of this has anything at all to do with any of the other parties, it's simply that I am unable to trust myself.

My therapist recommended I look into 're parenting'. I had always thought the inner child stuff was all a load of hippy crap, but I stumbled across the Nicole LePera holistic psychologist on YouTube and have found it to be tremendously helpful. Chpt 9 on trauma bonding spoke directly to a situation I'm currently in (again..) and I listened to it on repeat for an entire evening. For the first time I feel like I have a chance at a happy future. I believe you could too.

The comment about about self fulfilling prophecies is very accurate. Sometimes if you spend long enough telling yourself something won't work, then it won't. Don't push people away, let them in. Sometimes you will get hurt, but you have to allow love to happen otherwise you will never experience it. Allow yourself to live in the moment, don't overthink things and accept that sometimes things will be harder than others.

Don't let the fear of striking out, keep you from playing the game.

💐The darkest hour is just before the dawn. For now, just submit, you will be okay.

Picnic food: I like carrot sticks. I am currently a rabbit of negative euphoria.

Re getting a GP appointment. Could you write a letter requesting an appointment and stick it in their letterbox? Explain the phone appointment system doesn't work for you and why. Include list of dates/time windows you could attend and ask them if they could text you an appt.

Nowadays, appointments with your GP can be requested through the NHS app. I’ve done this and got a call back with an appointment date. Very handy.

Thanks.

It's all reached q bit of a head for me the past few days. I don't think he sees it at all. I can't tell whether he's oblivious or whether he's just giving space to work through 'whatever it is' in my head without adding pressure/being needy but it's all contributing to the belief that he doesn't really care.

He must do though on some level. He spent the weekend at mine and I had neglected the house a bit last week because I was feeling so wretched. He cleaned it all and didn't say a word about it. The washing up, the laundry, the hoovering - just did the lot.

We went out a couple of times at the weekend but I just felt distant from him. That's me. He was no different with me but, even when we were sitting next to each other, he might as well have been on the other side of the room emotionally.

I can't think straight anymore. I've removed myself from joint group chats we were both part of and I'm not participating in the joint hobby anymore although I can't actually leave for another 3 weeks. I've archived all conversations so I can't see notifications from anyone I have previously contacted through the group.

Two women contacted me directly to ask if I was OK because I'd left the chats. I said I was just taking a bit of a mental break but I don't know if anyone has contacted him and I don't like the thought they're talking about me behind my back. I know I 'caused" that by leaving but I just couldn't cope with the inane chatter.

I'm not in the right headspace to see a doctor at the moment. I need to remove all the negativity before I can start to deal with it.

I've become preoccupied with thoughts that he doesn't care and isn't being honest with me. That he is 'settling' for me and I've been a fool to believe the things he's said until now. It's been so much easier when it's obvious someone doesn't value or respect me- when they haven't even pretended. Or when they haven't said they love me. I feel I'm being manipulated.

I need to stop my thoughts and I need to sleep. I struggled at work yesterday and it's not a job where I can not be on top form. It's the first time I've struggled at work - normally, it's a welcome distraction.

I just can't think straight anymore. At the weekend, I invited him over this evening but now I just don't want to see him. But that would be the only time I could this week. We do the hobby I'm leaving together and he is still going tomorrow and I have a late evening at work on Thursday and will be exhausted when I finish so I won't see him then.

The nature of love is trust. There is no love without trust. Those that seemingly enjoy a loving relationship, have gotten comfortable with the lack of certainty.

We can never be 100% certain of another human being, it’s the nature of the beast.

For that matter, we can never be 100% certain of ourselves in all things and fir always. I always think it best not to expect more of others than we are ourselves.

If you think about it, could he really go on trusting you if he knew about all the doubts you have? We all have doubts occasionally, it’s how you deal with them that matters.

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