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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

In a creepy situation

75 replies

OldFan · 22/09/2022 11:52

My best friend (ex partner) is experiencing issues with a gang (I've seen them, so I know it's real.)

After one of the incidents, I felt I had to come and stay at his place for moral support (I did volunteer to do this without him asking, to be fair.)

He has a disability, which is part of why the gang are targeting him a bit more than other people.

I get that he has a disability, but I don't think most men would put a woman in this position if it could be helped. After all, there's nothing I can do if they break in while we're asleep or whatever.

Psychologically, he doesn't want to leave the flat empty as he doesn't like the thought of them breaking in (which they would do if the place was empty.) I've said to him that he can move over to mine while he waits for a move by the council (he will get some medical points so it wouldn't take as long to get a move as the average person.) I have room for all his stuff. We already moved over anything of financial or sentimental value.

I just am a bit resentful that he's 'making' me stay here when he has that option.

It's council so he can't easily just move flats. With his disability, he wants to apply for sheltered housing as it would have more security, so he doesn't get the same issues again.

I'm just letting off steam really.

OP posts:
ShaneTwane · 22/09/2022 14:07

OldFan · 22/09/2022 13:57

This is common. You can move out any time you want.

Me or my ex? He definitely can't get a new place whenever he wants. That it's common is exactly why authorities don't act to move victims in most instances.

You. You are free to move out whenever you want. He shouldn't be forced out of his home no matter what. If he chooses to stay he is an adult and thats his decision.

Original poster
OldFan · 22/09/2022 14:09

You said you chose to move in and he didn't ask but now you're resentful he is making you stay? This is common. You can move out any time you want.

I could, I guess. I've made another thread under a previous name about how I end up in these sorts of situations of having to move in etc with him and do a lot of stuff, and it's very draining.

I got into Christianity recently though, so it's even more like I feel I should sacrifice myself for others, potentially lay down my life for a friend etc.

OP posts:
CPL593H · 22/09/2022 14:21

OldFan · 22/09/2022 14:09

You said you chose to move in and he didn't ask but now you're resentful he is making you stay? This is common. You can move out any time you want.

I could, I guess. I've made another thread under a previous name about how I end up in these sorts of situations of having to move in etc with him and do a lot of stuff, and it's very draining.

I got into Christianity recently though, so it's even more like I feel I should sacrifice myself for others, potentially lay down my life for a friend etc.

I don't think the "laying down your life for a friend" exactly applies when said friend has an option that will ensure their safety that they are refusing to take.

I'm not having a pop OP but this is not a safe or healthy mindset.

Dery · 22/09/2022 14:29

“I got into Christianity recently though, so it's even more like I feel I should sacrifice myself for others, potentially lay down my life for a friend etc.”

This is it, really. You offered to move in. That was very kind of you - but it was your choice and you’re now choosing to stay there. If you’re doing it out of a sense of moral obligation, then it isn’t fair to resent him and say he’s put you in this situation. You’ve put yourself in this situation.

You’re obviously a great person and very caring friend but you don’t need to die for him or anyone else - please remember you’re much more use alive than dead!

With that in mind, I agree with PP - it’s completely fine for you to say this doesn’t work for you any more and that - for your own safety - you need to move back home. You’ve made clear he can come with you and if you go, he might be more inclined to follow. It’s a real shame he’s not being better protected and it’s wrong he should have to leave but his and your safety is the most important thing.

Good luck, OP.

AffIt · 22/09/2022 14:39

Does your friend have any access to funds that he could use to employ support? I know they're rare, but male carers / companions do exist and would allow you to move out while helping your friend stay safe.

Additionally, have you taken your complaints to your local councillor or MP? The squeaky wheel gets the oil, as they say.

FunnyTalks · 22/09/2022 15:04

I agree with PP that by offering a place to stay you've done all you could & should. You need to have healthy boundaries otherwise the relationship risks co-dependency which will not be great for either of you.

As a tangent, are hate crime laws never applied around the categories of disability and old age? Vulnerable people are so often targeted and exploited by gangs and con artists.

Maytodecember · 22/09/2022 15:09

OldFan · 22/09/2022 12:40

It sounds like a difficult situation, I can understand his reticence in moving though, without anywhere permanent to call his own

I'm not suggesting that he officially leaves his flat in a way the council would know about. We would still be popping in/checking on the doors etc every couple of days to see the state of play.

Does he have security measures in place? Would he continue to stay there on his own?

Yes, several security measures. He bought a ring doorbell as part of the measures, but one of them smashed it with a hammer at 7.30 am. The person had their face covered.

@CPL593H I have stressed to the police how serious it is. Unfortunately there's a bureaucracy/protocol with all the agencies and they don't consider it serious enough yet (despite the gang threatening to kill him.). In our experience it just annoys systems if you complain, and they become less supportive rather than more so.

If the police are being that unhelpful I think he should contact his MP, the local Crime Commissioner too. Or go to the press.
It sounds an awful situation for both of you. Some people are just lowlife scum.

mumoffloofs · 22/09/2022 15:17

I'm glad to see PP has mentioned hate crimes. It's not clear from your OP whether he is being targeted due to his disability, but this should be mentioned to the police. There have been very serious cases where a series of disability hate crimes have resulted in very serious violent crimes. I'd also ask whether they are considering the reports as a pattern of behaviour or if they're just dealing with each incident in isolation. If he's getting nowhere with the police, he can make a complaint.

fdgdfgdfgdfg · 22/09/2022 16:03

He hasn't put you in a dangerous situation, you've put yourself in one. You offered to go and stay with him, you're still there.

All you have to do is walk out of the house and go home. That's it. It's really that simple. Stop being such a fucking martyr and put yourself first.

But you won't do that will you.

Original poster
OldFan · 25/09/2022 00:40

He hasn't put you in a dangerous situation, you've put yourself in one. You offered to go and stay with him, you're still there.

Yes, then I said we should leave and go to mine, but he wouldn't. And what bloke would accept a woman doing that anyway? Coming to somewhere dangerous? Or do I have overexpectations of men? I suppose it is a very stressful time for him.

It looks like he has been given a tier one move because the consultant wrote directly to housing who pushed it with the police. But he refuses to go to the council bed and breakfast. I mean, I can understand that of course to an extent. But I've been in them twice and it wasn't so bad.

I can't make him do anything so we'll just have to see how it goes and what the council decide and what he actually does.

Someone said to me they wouldn't have him in a more 'age-appropriate' hostel because of his care needs (I maybe described things wrong to them, IDK, I was trying to get something done over the weekend. He does ok with things.) Hopefully they'll budge on that maybe.

The most obvious outcome is he'll stay at his or mine until he gets a temporary flat or permanent flat.

If you’re doing it out of a sense of moral obligation, then it isn’t fair to resent him and say he’s put you in this situation. You’ve put yourself in this situation.

Even Jesus asked if his cup could be taken from him. Grin I know that isn't the same though. But it's human to be annoyed sometimes.

You need to have healthy boundaries otherwise the relationship risks co-dependency which will not be great for either of you.

Yep it has gone on for years really @FunnyTalks . We're exes but still live in each other's pockets.

Stop being such a fucking martyr and put yourself first. But you won't do that will you.

I used to be into all that but I don't think it's right now. If everyone helped each other out we'd have a better world.

On the up side, no incidents for the last few days Smile Just the woman upstairs has a new boyfriend who seems to be growing drugs there.

OP posts:
Mingot · 25/09/2022 01:28

Are they trying to cuckoo and use as a trap house?

Call the police and ask for the most senior person at the vulnerable person department.

LuckyLil · 25/09/2022 08:20

OldFan · 22/09/2022 12:15

We have contacted the police, many times. He gets me to handle most involvement with them now.

Maybe he could notify the Council/Housing Association (whomever manages the flat) that he is moving out due to the issue

Unfortunately, it would count as making himself intentionally homeless. If he did come to ours we couldn't tell the council. He would still pop in every other day to fetch mail, so would be keeping an eye on the place.

At the end of the day, stuff is replaceable and people aren't - it is worth encouraging him prioritise accordingly perhaps?

I agree, but it's a psychological hangup he has, that he doesn't like the idea of something that's kind of his, being broken into.

In a way it's useful to stay here (though I don't think he's thought of this) as the more stuff happens, the more he stands a chance of the police making the council move him immediately for his own safety (this is very, very rare and they won't at the moment.) But of course this is a risky thing to do.

I'm council and I'm allowed to stay away from my property for up to three months before I have to notify them.

LuckyLil · 25/09/2022 08:26

OldFan · 22/09/2022 13:48

If it's a HA property they will take this seriously and should likely have a specialist ASB team to help?

It's council and no they don't take it seriously/view it as their responsibility yet. I doubt HA will either.

Council say they 'have a protocol' and they will only emergency move a person in this situation if the police send them a certain form saying they consider it Tier One due to the level of danger. The police are still deciding on this but it's very unlikely that they will at this juncture. If you think about it, the council can't easily move people due to them experiencing ASB/crime or they'd have to be moving thousands of people all the time. So they have bureaucracy about how they do it and it's virtually unheard of- I've only ever known one person who had it and her abusive ex was part of a major criminal family group.

Medical points are our best bet.

I don't want to worry you but 8 have a supporting letter from social services and I'm in the highest band for medical points, the waiting list is still years.

NormalNans · 25/09/2022 08:26

Do you have issues too? You seem to be tying yourself up in knots of obligation and who should be doing what. Ultimately, you volunteered to stay, he shouldn’t have to second guess that you didn’t mean this. You’re now annoying with him for putting you in a situation where you’re vulnerable. He didn’t, you did.

The police / housing thing is connected but a different issue. Go back to the police and if you think they’re focussing on your ex because of the disability, tell the police this - it may be a hate crime or at least a safeguarding issue if he’s vulnerable.

saveforthat · 25/09/2022 08:31

You keep saying you offered to stay but expected him to decline the offer. Why did you offer then?

Dery · 25/09/2022 08:33

OP - people aren’t suggesting you shouldn’t help him. You’ve been amazing. People are saying you shouldn’t put yourself in danger or die for him. There’s a healthy balance to be struck between looking after others and looking after yourself. You can’t help anyone if you’ve poured all your resources out or you’re dead. That’s what people are getting at.

LuckyLil · 25/09/2022 08:35

Not sure where 8 came from lol

As you've found, all tier 1 gets is emergency bed and breakfast, not a new property. With my supporting letter stating I need adaptions and can no longer safely access steps I was still given a target of between 4 and 13 years on the waiting list for a new property.

LuckyLil · 25/09/2022 08:37

If he refuses bed and breakfast then what exactly is he expecting, a straight swap to a new flat? Tell him that isn't going to happen and he either needs to take the bed and breakfast or he'll be stuck there for years waiting for a flat.

TellySavalashairbrush · 25/09/2022 08:46

This is definitely a matter for adult social care involvement (I’m a social worker) ring the duty team at your local council they will do an assessment with your ex, this can then lead to other agencies getting involved , housing association, police , etc. cuckooing is a very serious matter and will be dealt with as such by social care.

AlisonDonut · 25/09/2022 08:55

Women as human shield - that old chestnut.

I'm not sure what it is you want people to say.

You are entitled to want to be safe.

You are entitled to a place of your own.

You say he is an ex but also best friend? What person puts their best friend into danger like this?

Celeryfavour · 25/09/2022 09:14

There's no point complaining when it's him who doesn't want the assistance the council have offered. And there's no point offering your support if you don't want him to take it up. Maybe if you move out it would encourage him to take up the offer of temporary accommodation?

Plet · 25/09/2022 09:15

Why on earth did you offer if you didn't want to do it and expected him to say no? And are annoyed that he said yes?? That's really insincere. He didn't put you in that situation, you did!

Stop being such a bloody martyr and move right back out. Being a Christian does NOT mean being a massive doormat and moaning about it to boot.

LuckyLil · 25/09/2022 09:44

Celeryfavour · 25/09/2022 09:14

There's no point complaining when it's him who doesn't want the assistance the council have offered. And there's no point offering your support if you don't want him to take it up. Maybe if you move out it would encourage him to take up the offer of temporary accommodation?

He may already have blown it with the council and no longer be considered in urgent need it he was happy to refuse an urgent offer of temporary accommodation. He certainly won't have got himself further up the list by refusing the offer.

fdgdfgdfgdfg · 25/09/2022 09:50

He doesn't give a shit about your safety, you know that already, you know that because you've started a thread about it, so stop trying to get yourself killed for a relationship that is over.

The only thing you're going to achieve by staying is to create more work for the paramedics when they have to attend two people instead of one

The4teddybears · 25/09/2022 09:59

He needs to approach the housing as homeless. . Under these circs they will allow him to live somewhere safe ie yours, as long as he keeps his tenancy running . But while they investigate he must have ‘intention to return’ so he must always say he will intend to return when the danger goes . This way he won’t be classed as intentionally homeless. Surely then they’ll find him homeless and along with his medical issues should get high priority.

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