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Original poster

Is this a enough?

34 replies

IrisJoy · 20/09/2022 10:54

I am in a relationship with a lovely man. He is kind and funny and treats my brilliantly. He is great with my children, understanding when I am stressed about work, helps around the house (we don’t live together).
however, he isn’t romantic in any way. He did warn me at the beginning of our relationship that he ‘wasn’t very good with compliments or love’. I don’t think he really believes in love. He does tell me that he loves me (very occasionally). But to him that just means someone who he gets on with and has things in common with and has a nice time with. It all feels a bit ‘conditional’. For example, if we stopped doing the hobby we do together, or if the sex dwindled, I feel we wouldn’t last very long.
It's starting to knock my confidence because i adore him but I don’t feel that he feels the same way about me. However, he’s pretty perfect in every respect. How do I learn to deal with the fact that he just isn’t like that, and not let it affect my confidence?

I hope that makes sense!

OP posts:
ComtesseDeSpair · 20/09/2022 11:11

But to him that just means someone who he gets on with and has things in common with and has a nice time with.

Is this something he has actually said, or just what you are interpreting from him not being very forthcoming with words of affirmation and love?

If he’s actually said that this is all you are to him, no different to any other friend, then yes it’s concerning if you’re hoping to be his partner and the principal person in his life. But somebody not being romantic or constantly telling you how they feel about you doesn't mean they don’t love you, and actions and behaviour are far more important than words.

FinallyHere · 20/09/2022 11:55

I know it's not a popular opinion, but I don't really 'believe' in the soft words of love. I believe in love when I see as PP said, actions and behaviour which are consistent with love.

For me that means someone putting their 'loved one' first, even when it inconveniences them. When they put a bit of effort in, to provide support and go over and above for their partner.

Saying I love you or even buying flowers is easy compared, what matters for me is the person doing something useful which is not for their own convenience.

Original poster
IrisJoy · 20/09/2022 12:24

Thank you both.
He has told me that I am special to him etc. and that he wants us to be together forever.
I think you’re right and I need to remember that actions speak louder than words. The way he treats me shows he loves me, even when he doesn’t say it.
I think I am just finding it hard when I say I love you and he doesn’t say it back from example. Sometimes he says ‘good’ or something like that.
I am getting used to that. It just threw me last night when a love song came on and he said that he didn’t think people felt love like that. That someone you live is someone that you find attractive and like to spend time with but that’s all. So it feels like if something changed, eg I put on weight or we stopped having sex or something, he wouldn’t ‘love’ me any more. To me that’s not love. It’s really knocking my confidence. Especially as he often mentions when he finds celebrities attractive etc.
I know this is probably my problem rather than his, I just don’t know how to stop it affecting me.

OP posts:
Watchkeys · 20/09/2022 13:03

How do I learn to deal with the fact that he just isn’t like that, and not let it affect my confidence

You don't. You spend your time with people whose behaviour/actions/words don't knock your confidence, and you leave behind those who do knock your confidence.

I know this is probably my problem rather than his

Yes. You have a problem with the way he speaks to you and expresses his feelings. Does it make it not relevant because it's you who has the issue? Why are you minimising this, and trying to change yourself, rather than saying 'Hang on mate, I've got a problem with how you're speaking to me here, and we need to get it sorted out or I won't be happy in the relationship'?

If you don't like what he's doing, why do you think it's you who needs to change? You can't alter what you like in a relationship any more than you can alter what you like on your plate or in your wardrobe: it's an expression of who you are? Nobody says 'How can I force myself to like olives?' or 'Why can't I seem to get myself to like wearing red clothes?'... we just accept what we like and don't like, and do what feels good to us. Relationships are no different.

FinallyHere · 20/09/2022 16:51

finding it hard when I say I love you and he doesn’t say it back

Try saying it when you are saying thank you for something he has said or done, so you are not expecting reciprocity.

And do be careful, to distinguish between someone who is 'throwing you scraps' to keep you happy and someone who loves you deeply and shows that in everything they do.

Big difference. Huge.

Original poster
IrisJoy · 20/09/2022 20:11

The thing is he does show me in what he does. I just need to remember that is his way of showing he cares.

I just think that he isn’t really capable of loving more than that. Deeply, iyswim. It’s more like he cares about me. That’s just hard when I adore him.
he never speaks rudely to me. He would say it’s a joke when he says something like ‘yeah you’ll do’. If he comments on someone attractive and I call him out on it he says ‘oh man finds…. Attractive. Big shock’. And I get what he means, I think I just feel inadequate all the time. Like I am not enough. If I say that to him he says that I am enough and I am being silly. Which I probably am.
I don’t want to dump him. I love him and he is pretty perfect in every other way. This feels like more my problem because he hasn’t actually done anything wrong.

OP posts:
FetchezLaVache · 20/09/2022 20:14

It all feels a bit ‘conditional’. For example, if we stopped doing the hobby we do together, or if the sex dwindled, I feel we wouldn’t last very long

This is far more of a worry than the lack of demonstrativeness, IMO...

Pineappleskies · 20/09/2022 20:46

Why would you want to spend forever with someone you think is incapable of love?

It sounds very risky.

FinallyHere · 20/09/2022 20:56

I just feel inadequate all the time.

I'd say that it might be worth exploring this for your own self, quite apart from any partner. If you could get to the bottom of that feeling, you would be in a better place to evaluate a life partner.

Original poster
IrisJoy · 20/09/2022 21:14

Yes I know what you mean @FetchezLaVache that’s what worries me. But I do sort of understand his point of ‘well if you dint have fun together (not just sex) then what’s the point?’ I find this hard to argue with

@Pineappleskies he says he doesn’t have that sort of feeling. Nothing he has done has been anything short of kind to me, so why wouldn’t I? As long as I can get my head around him not having the same feelings for me as I have for him.
@FinallyHere yes you’re definitely right. I don’t have great self esteem. Not sure how to raise it without counselling, which I can’t afford

OP posts:
XmasElf10 · 20/09/2022 21:41

My OH rarely if ever says he loves me. He tends to call my mildly rude names (affectionate) as a joke between the two of us which I think is his way of saying it without saying it. However he is absolutely reliable, kind, generous, would do anything for me, remembers birthdays and buys lovely flowers, etc…. His actions very clearly show his commitment to me even though he just called me a “giant hairy doofus” for spilling my coffee!

It sounds like yours maybe is the same way … all action, no words. Much better that way around I think!

User110922 · 20/09/2022 22:19

To be honest, when I was with my ex, he always said "I love you" but I never said it back. And he accepted it. I still cared deeply for him, but I felt too vulnerable to say it back. And he accepted that, and the relationship worked. We broke up for reasons unrelated to this.

Your post isn't so much "is this enough?". It's more "Is this enough for YOU?".
Different people have different boundaries, values, and interpretations on what love is. However, from reading your posts, I'd say that this isn't enough for you.

Please don't turn this into a problem about yourself that you need to fix. This is about him not being compatible with you, and potentially feeding you breadcrumbs.

Yes, he might be a lovely man, but he doesn't sound like a lovely boyfriend if he makes you feel insecure in the relationship. And if this is truly the person he is, you're in for a hell of a lot of heartbreak if you continue on.

I would leave the relationship as it's only going to damage your self-esteem further down the line when you get even more attached to him.

Guiltypleasures001 · 20/09/2022 22:25

Maybe there's a pathology at play
He maybe mirroring you, he may genuinely not be able to have these feelings
Ide be worried in case of lack of empathy and true understanding of deeper feelings

DoingJustFine · 20/09/2022 22:29

I was thinking you were worrying about nothing until I got to this:

Especially as he often mentions when he finds celebrities attractive etc.

Eww.

He reminds me of my first DH. He rarely said ILY. Commented on pretty women. Was almost Sheldon Cooper in how he expressed his affections. It killed my confidence day by day, and I'm still struggling now, years later.

Maybe this bloke isn't as wonderful as you think? Commenting on attractive people to your own partner is just off. You're not his best mate.

ToFindNewWays · 20/09/2022 22:35

Actually he sounds awful. It sounds painful for you. When he said that about the song he was saying very clearly: “I don’t feel love like that for you. I don’t believe in it. I will never have those feelings for you.”

That would absolutely gut anyone OP. I couldn’t spend one more minute in a relationship where my partner had made that clear to me.

Plus the drooling over/commenting on celebrities he finds sexually attractive is so nasty - sleazy and undermining.

He may have nice qualities and be helpful and warm and all the rest, but this relationship will make you so unhappy, so emotionally unwell. You will never feel emotionally safe or fulfilled. Please don’t put yourself through it.

londonlass71 · 20/09/2022 22:58

IrisJoy · 20/09/2022 12:24

Thank you both.
He has told me that I am special to him etc. and that he wants us to be together forever.
I think you’re right and I need to remember that actions speak louder than words. The way he treats me shows he loves me, even when he doesn’t say it.
I think I am just finding it hard when I say I love you and he doesn’t say it back from example. Sometimes he says ‘good’ or something like that.
I am getting used to that. It just threw me last night when a love song came on and he said that he didn’t think people felt love like that. That someone you live is someone that you find attractive and like to spend time with but that’s all. So it feels like if something changed, eg I put on weight or we stopped having sex or something, he wouldn’t ‘love’ me any more. To me that’s not love. It’s really knocking my confidence. Especially as he often mentions when he finds celebrities attractive etc.
I know this is probably my problem rather than his, I just don’t know how to stop it affecting me.

"He wants us to be together forever" there is you answer OP.
Talk to him and tell him. My partner can be a bit like this and I just let him know I'm feeling a certain way. Just open up to him a bit more

ToFindNewWays · 20/09/2022 23:09

It’s not your problem rather than his. It is a problem, which is he has told you to your face he doesn’t believe in romantic love and doesn’t feel that way for you and never will.

Plus sleazing over other women (celebrities or not) is an ugly, lazy, disrespectful way to behave.

Banana2079 · 20/09/2022 23:11

How sweet that he helps round The house even though he doesn’t live there that is definitely a sign of love, Most people wouldn’t do that. I am like your partner my poor boyfriend has had to beg for kisses love and affection for me because of the way I was treated in my last relationship I am emotionally numb And I get the way he feels. If he says he loves you and he warned you then just take it as it is not all men wear their hearts on their sleeves

Banana2079 · 20/09/2022 23:15

But I will discuss this with him, for me I know what I’m doing is wrong and I’m willing to change that however your partner is adamant that this is the way it’s going to be and clearly this is not something you are happy with or wanting to live with forever so therefore this man is not right for you long-term because you will never be happy and you will always be questioning whether he actually loves you - even If he does, and that’s no way to live. In regards to the comments about finding celebrities attractive well he’s not in love with those celebrities and just ignore that you could also say who you fancy it’s not really something to get upset over but you do need to address the lack of intimacy in this relationship which is more important

OnTheBrinkOfChange · 20/09/2022 23:17

All we need to know really is that you are seeing a man who makes you feel inadequate. That on its own is a reason to end the relationship. Whether other women could cope with that it's up to them but I couldn't and it sounds as though you can't either.

Watchkeys · 21/09/2022 09:21

He wants us to be together forever" there is you answer OP

But that's not the answer. I could tell OP that I can fly. Does that give her the answer to whether I can fly or not? Does it mean I can fly in the way she'd like?

He might love her to the moon and back, but if the way he does it makes her feel any less than loved and respected, it's not enough for her.

Trying to change yourself so that the way someone behaves/talks stops feeling bad and starts feeling good is disrespecting your own feelings, just like trying to make yourself like parties or make yourself like crowds. Self respect lies in accepting and accommodating your own feelings, and building your life around that.

Whether he loves her or not isn't really the issue, here. He may, or he may not. If the relationship doesn't make her feel good, it's not for her. Otherwise the argument is that you 'should' be with someone if they say they want to be with you, regardless of how you feel. It's nonsense.

londonlass71 · 21/09/2022 09:40

Watchkeys · 21/09/2022 09:21

He wants us to be together forever" there is you answer OP

But that's not the answer. I could tell OP that I can fly. Does that give her the answer to whether I can fly or not? Does it mean I can fly in the way she'd like?

He might love her to the moon and back, but if the way he does it makes her feel any less than loved and respected, it's not enough for her.

Trying to change yourself so that the way someone behaves/talks stops feeling bad and starts feeling good is disrespecting your own feelings, just like trying to make yourself like parties or make yourself like crowds. Self respect lies in accepting and accommodating your own feelings, and building your life around that.

Whether he loves her or not isn't really the issue, here. He may, or he may not. If the relationship doesn't make her feel good, it's not for her. Otherwise the argument is that you 'should' be with someone if they say they want to be with you, regardless of how you feel. It's nonsense.

It is the answer as to how he feels. We all express love differently and it doesn't seem from her post that she has even approached him or given him an opportunity to work on this. Relationships take work.
I totally understand how OP feels because I felt the same at the beginning of my relarionship, but I communicated which led to a better understanding between the two of us and we are still together and grow closer each day.
The trouble with MN is everyone is so quick to say "Leave, dump him etc." The dynamic if a relationship has so many more facets than what is typed in a small post.
OP needs to talk to him and fully express her concerns.
If SHE feels the relationship would split if the hobby stopped, that's HER. She has no idea how he would feel (unless he has a aid this to her and they have had a convo).

Original poster
IrisJoy · 21/09/2022 14:36

He does show his feelings in how he treats me, which is brilliantly. But you’re right, I don’t feel okay with him commenting on celebrities, or how he says comments like ‘you’ll do’. I do know he’s joking, but it’s not counteracted by positive comments, so it is wearing me down.
I can cope with the fact that he is an ‘actions rather than words’ person. But next time he makes a comment that makes me feel bad I will tell him, and explain why. I think he will stop once he realises. He wouldn’t intentionally hurt me.
if he doesn’t stop, then that’s another issue.
thank you all for you wise words

OP posts:
ToFindNewWays · 21/09/2022 14:49

Good luck OP. Don’t waste years trying to force yourself to feel ok about a relationship which essentially leaves you feeling worse about yourself and insecure.

It doesn’t matter how brilliantly he behaves most of the time if essential elements (feeling truly loved and prized, respected, no sleazy drooling over other people) are absent. The equation will never be balanced.

Watchkeys · 21/09/2022 16:29

Yes, @londonlass71 , it is the answer to how he feels, but as I said, Whether he loves her or not isn't really the issue, here

His style of loving her doesn't suit her.

OP, are you only going to talk to him when he does something that hurts you, and raise it then? Why not discuss it with him as a more general issue, when things are fine? Why can't you tell him what you've told us?