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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

How do I handle my 12 year old DS and and my exH?

30 replies

Outofdepthmum · 19/09/2022 17:19

We split 2 years ago, he has the kids EOW and one of them, DS12 is his favourite. DS is a lovely child but very emotional and I think easily manipulated. Relations between me and the ex are not good, he believes himself to be the wronged party (he isn’t) and is very bitter and uses DS to get to me.

he has had him this weekend and despite blocking me on his phone, used DS’s phone to call me (so I took the call) to bollock me in front of DS for a fine he thinks he is going to get, related to my changing the name on our broadband. FFS.

I said I wouldn’t engage with him in front of DS, it was sly to use DS’s phone to get to me, and he had already sent an abusive email earlier that day which I hadn’t had chance to respond to.

All this could have been sorted out but then I got a voicemail from DS, and the language in it would stop a train. A good few minutes of “mum you fucking piece of shit I fucking hate you so much you’re so shit you should speak to Daddy with respect you fucking bitch” etc etc. on and on, plus a text message of the same tone, and then 2 other voice mails that were slightly more calm.

I was horrified. I haven’t spoken to DS yet about it, I’m due to collect him tonight and I think that he’s left these messages to curry favour with his dad. But they really are awful.

I sent a copy of the text message to his dad so he could see what I’m receiving and he wrote back with a torrent of abuse about how DS gets all this from me, what a terrible parent I am and that this is just evidence of it.

How on earth do I handle this?

OP posts:
2pinkginsplease · 19/09/2022 17:22

12 year old ds would have no phone to send me vile text messages like that again!

id be horrified if any of my children spoke to me like that!

i think your ds needs counselling/support to help manage his anger.

MolliciousIntent · 19/09/2022 17:28

I think you tell your DS that you are incredibly hurt and disappointed in his behaviour, that if he was an adult friend of yours you would never want to speak to him again, and that it will take a long time for you to be able to look at him the same way again. Then I'd take his phone, and disengage completely. I'd also speak to school about getting him some help.

klipwa · 19/09/2022 17:29

Remove his phone.

Inform him of the law against abusive phone calls (telecommunications act 1984).
Let him know how deeply disgusted you are with his behaviour.
Let him know arguments between adults do not need his input.
If he can't treat you with respect, he should go live with his dad.

GreenManalishi · 19/09/2022 17:37

This is called Triangulation and you're right to be concerned,

Don't triangulate children. "Triangulation" is a therapy term used to describe a situation where divorced parents come to pass messages through their children rather than speaking directly with one another. Parents also triangulate their children when they ask them to spy on the other parent, and when they use their children as pawns with which to manipulate their ex-spouses. Implicitly or explicitly, parents who triangulate ask their children to side with them against the other parent, a maneuver which forces children into a damaging situation where they must disown a parent they love, or lie.

Don't allow children to become adult confidants. While children are often motivated to comfort their divorced parents, they are seldom mature enough to actually handle such a role. Parents who mistakenly confide in their children can easily overload them, leaving them feeling anxious, angry, depressed, out of control, and unable to talk about it for fear of further upsetting their parent. Upset divorced parents should find appropriate adult confidants (friends, family, therapists, etc.) when they need to vent or discuss their difficulties adapting to their changed circumstances rather than discussing such material with their children.

The way your DS spoke to you is a result of a problem, not the problem itself. Kids are wired to keep themselves safe and he will have been acting in self defence in front of his dad. Try not to take it personally, get him some counselling or someone to talk to if you can.

You can't control your EXH behaviour, only your own. Make sure he has nobody to battle against and he will get bored in time. You need to take yourself out of the equation as much as possible, if you get any more calls of this nature it's ok to put the phone down, and then turn it off.

SecretVictoria · 19/09/2022 17:38

Had I spoken to either of my parents like that…even at 42 I dread to think of the consequences. This needs clamping down on firmly. TBH, if I was in your shoes, DS wouldn’t be welcome in my home for a long time. He’d be staying with his dad.

titchy · 19/09/2022 17:48

You recognise that this was not him, it was a way of him protecting himself whilst at his dads. You get home, tell him you've missed him and you're pleased to see him and you've got his favourite for tea.

Then tell him you were very disappointed to receive his messages, and you'll talk to him about it later. Let him stew for a bit - he'll prob be very upset and that feeling will grow the longer you wait. Later, you need a heart to heart, how does he feel, what alternate strategies could he use etc.

On the other hand if he's totally unremorseful bollockmhim.

YRGAM · 19/09/2022 17:49

titchy · 19/09/2022 17:48

You recognise that this was not him, it was a way of him protecting himself whilst at his dads. You get home, tell him you've missed him and you're pleased to see him and you've got his favourite for tea.

Then tell him you were very disappointed to receive his messages, and you'll talk to him about it later. Let him stew for a bit - he'll prob be very upset and that feeling will grow the longer you wait. Later, you need a heart to heart, how does he feel, what alternate strategies could he use etc.

On the other hand if he's totally unremorseful bollockmhim.

This is very good advice.

Quoting a law at him as suggested by a PP is not very good advice

daylilies · 19/09/2022 17:54

I agree with titchy and GreenManalishi OP.
Drop the rope - your ex wants you to go mad at your son to cement the idea that you are the baddie. Don't give him the ammunition.

DorotheaHomeAlone · 19/09/2022 18:06

That must have been so hurtful and distressing to receive. Hurtful and distressing in a way your ex can no longer make you feel himself. You know where this is coming from and it’s not your son.

I agree with all the posts above about responding calmly, disengaging and trying to help your son as much as possible. He is a victim here and it makes me so sad to think about what might have preceded those messages at your ex’s house.

I know it’s hard to step away but if you respond emotionally and punish your son hard or try to appeal to your ex you are just playing his game and guaranteeing he will use your DS against you again.

GreenManalishi · 19/09/2022 18:23

@YRGAM if you are referring to the information I posted regarding triangulation, it's not a law, just a bit of information about what triangulation is. Might be helpful reading for others too.

Original poster
Outofdepthmum · 19/09/2022 18:28

Thankyou all so much. I’m so sad and tired and disappointed. I’ve picked him up and he’s testing boundaries straightaway, “I’m so fucking sick of this” etc. I have stayed icily calm, and his phone is in my pocket.

OP posts:
Original poster
Outofdepthmum · 19/09/2022 18:30

One of the biggest pushes to leave his dad was that my son would be rude to me in front of his dad and then look at him for approval, which he got. So the triangulation rings very true, as does alienation.

He’s just started seniors so it’s quite an intense time, plus he also no longer sees his uber-narc granny so he has a lot on. But I can’t and won’t have this behaviour.

OP posts:
Fraaahnces · 19/09/2022 18:32

Parental alienation is also a crime. You need to see your lawyer and get DS’s time with dad revoked

2pinkginsplease · 19/09/2022 18:33

I would also reinforce to ds that his father’s behaviour is why you left him and your son is displaying the same abusive tone of voice which isn’t acceptable .

DelphiniumBlue · 19/09/2022 18:40

Sisterly hugs from me.
That is really hard for you to deal with, so upsetting.
The only tip I can give you is that when I had to confiscate things from DC when they were being horrible teenagers, I'd take the confiscated item( aPS4 on a couple of occasions) to a friend or neighbours house, just in case they were tempted to search the house for it while I was out/asleep.
You can only tell DS that you are sorry he was drawn into this , which should have remained between the adults, and that obviously he must understand that it's too upsetting to have him send you messages like that which is why you've temporarily removed his phone by so that he's not tempted to do it again. Tell him you hope he wasn't put under pressure by his dad, but you understand that he has to protect himself.
Then try and build a few bridges, can you do dinner and a movie or something on the sofa together? Be nice, so he can't go on thinking that you are a bitch, but don't give him the phone back yet. For his own protection. If it's next door do he can't sneak down and get in the night so much the better.

GreenManalishi · 19/09/2022 18:50

Even though it doesn't seem like it, he needs you now more than ever. He's only 12, he's completely out of his depth and probably feels all over the place inside, even though on the outside he is toughing it out like a big man. He's probably frightened to death and can't think straight. Try and pull him in rather than push him away and punish him for what he's done, it's a symptom of a bigger problem not a cause.

Try and connect with him in any way you can think of this evening, both try and get some rest and start again tomorrow. Let him know you understand how difficult it can be spending time with someone who is angry not to let it rub off on you, let him know you get it.

YRGAM · 19/09/2022 19:54

GreenManalishi · 19/09/2022 18:23

@YRGAM if you are referring to the information I posted regarding triangulation, it's not a law, just a bit of information about what triangulation is. Might be helpful reading for others too.

@GreenManalishi no - I meant the one saying 'quote the abusive phonecalls law and kick him out to live with his dad' post. FWIW I thought your post was very helpful and I'd agree with your advice

Petronus · 19/09/2022 19:58

Listen to @GreenManalishi this is such a thoughtful post that gets to the root of the problem. The post directly after suggesting he should stay at his dads and not be allowed back in the house is completely bonkers. Your poor son and poor you.

Creepymanonagoatfarm · 19/09/2022 20:02

Unless there is a court order I would keep ds home and seek legal advice. Your ex is a real danger to ds's mental health.

Original poster
Outofdepthmum · 19/09/2022 20:04

Update is, he had more of a rant and then came and sat with me in the garden. He said he didn’t regret leaving those messages - I played one back to him, and he carried on. Then we played with the dog a bit, and watched a couple of funny videos. Then he talked more about how upset he gets and how he feels like I favour his siblings and how angry he is. Then he said he felt bad for being so rude and we had a cuddle. I’ve promised to try and make him feel more heard and he’s gone for a shower. We are all going to watch the new series of our favourite show together. So, some bridges have been built and he gave me a kiss and we had a little laugh.

Im holding him up as hard and as strong as I can without him thinking he can behave like this. I think I’m on the right track…

OP posts:
Beamur · 19/09/2022 20:06

Lovely update OP.
Such a hard situation and really tough on you all.

Original poster
Outofdepthmum · 19/09/2022 20:09

Thankyou.

I’ve emailed his dad, who has the emotional intelligence of a snail, and said that we NEED to take the heat out, that I don’t allow the children to speak disrespectfully of him and he shouldn’t allow it about me because ultimately it damages them. I’ve asked him for suggestions on moving forward. I don’t expect a great response but I’m trying.

OP posts:
lailamaria · 19/09/2022 20:23

of course that wasn't him, i never went that far but when i used to have contact with my dad from like 6 to 12 my aggression towards my mum would ramp up because that's how he interacted with her, i do still have bouts of aggression unfortunately but since going no contact which my mum supported at 12 it's very much improved and improved our relationship

GreenManalishi · 19/09/2022 20:58

Sounds like you're handling it brilliantly with him, bloody well done. Not sure how much help you can expect Ex to be in getting you all out of this, seeing as he seems to be the one that got you into it. I don't whether looking to him for suggestions and cooperation is realistic. You might get a better result long term by not trying to co parent with someone who is clearly incapable, and parallel parenting instead.

Original poster
Outofdepthmum · 19/09/2022 21:02

I think you’re probably right and there’s a part of me that is just creating a paper trail for if this escalates. I’ve tried.

OP posts: