Very worried about best friend’s husband

[Elsiebear90]

I would really appreciate some advice on this as I don’t know to suggest to my friend and how to help.

My best friend has been with her husband for 8 years, they own a house together (with 200k left on the mortgage) and have a three year old.

From the get go her husband seemed quite paranoid, controlling and antisocial, I expressed concerns as did her family, but she was adamant she wanted to marry him so we all just had to accept it.

Since their daughter was born (she’s 3) he started drinking very heavily, he does nothing around the house and won’t do anything with his daughter (he was lazy before but has got a lot worse). He has become very paranoid, checking up on her and accusing her of having affairs and sleeping with basically any man she talks to including their middle aged married builders.

He thinks his family (he works for the family business) and co workers are plotting against him, he’s even contacted solicitors about suing his family, the other day his brother asked him if he had any loft insulation he could borrow and then sent him on this bizarre spiral of thinking his brother had broken into his garage to spy on him and talk to the builders?! He then kicked all the builders out, kicked one of the doors off its hinges and smashed a chair and lamp to pieces.

He is constantly talking about committing suicide, he even told their daughter to kiss him goodbye as this would be the last time she saw him. He won’t see a doctor and is self medicating with alcohol and drugs (which he never touched before). My best friend’s family think he’s going to snap one day and kill them all, to the point where her dad has given her weapons to protect herself from him.

She has tried to get him to agree he has a problem and he needs help, but he blames everything on her and the stress of the extension they’re having built. She says he is “normal” for a while then he hears or sees something innocent that sends him into a rage and paranoia and he can’t be reasoned with, eventually he snaps out of and then wants to act like everything is normal again.

My friend isn’t in love with him, wants to leave him, but it scared she will lose her house as she can’t afford to buy him out, she’s currently trying to get his family to reason with him and get him to see a doctor, but he won’t. Please help, I’m so scared for them and I don’t know what to advise or how to help.

You could also consider calling the NSPCC helpline for advice: 0808 800 5000 about how to support her and the child and about the level of risk the child is exposed to and how best to act to safeguard the child.

Very concerning. Would agree she needs to move out asap. Very hard situation to help someone with too. Tread lightly so she doesn't get scared and push you away - i.e. offer options that feel less scary and final. just my take! Glad she has a friend like you. Good luck OP and wishing her the best.

My point is…what she is saying about it being about the house, is quite possibly a cover for a whole bunch of other emotions and issues.

and as I said, he is not in “denial” - there is a medical reason and term for why he cannot recognise. As I have already explained.

once he is under mental health services, he will be stabilised very quickly. That’s not the issue, the long term care of keeping him stabilised is.

@BuildersTeaMaker you're assuming the OP's husband has the same mental health diagnosis as yours. I appreciate 100% you're trying to be helpful but there is really not enough to go on for anyone to be diagnosing.

His paranoia could be fuelled by the drugs and alcohol. He could just be a narcissistic abusive bully. He could have a mental illness and also be an abusive bully, exerting coercive control over his spouse. It sounds like the OP's friend's husband has never been a particularly nice person and his behaviour has escalated increasingly over the years.

We don't know if he will be stabilised. We don't know if he even has a mental illness. Again, while I appreciate you're coming from a good place, I don't think it's possible for anyone to say with any certainty this is something that can be fixed by the OP getting mental health services involved.

Either way, there is a small child involved in this mess and she has to be the priority. As an external adult witnessing this, the OP has the power to act in this child's best interests by getting social services involved. If the OP chooses not to do that, then that's on her. The friend is obviously struggling massively to cope and in an abusive relationship - I can excuse her to a certain extent. But the OP just standing back and watching and dithering over what to do when there's a child at risk is inexcusable really. And a child at risk with weapons in the house, too! With a father who is violent and on drugs! It beggars belief.

I think that’s a bit unfair, I was told this information (about his paranoia severely escalating, him smashing up the house and her family thinking he’s dangerous) yesterday afternoon, prior to that I just thought he was an insecure selfish lazy d*ckhead with an alcohol problem. I never thought he could harm them until yesterday.

Surely you understand that reporting your best friend to social services is difficult? I need to make sure I’m not going to make the situation worse for them all as they could easily deny everything and there is very little evidence of any wrongdoing on his part if she denies it all too. I don’t want to make his paranoia and anger worse and make her feel reluctant to open up to anyone and seek support as someone is clearly reporting what she’s telling them.

@Elsiebear90 I do understand it's difficult. I really do.

But as an external person not involved in the situation, and as a teacher with a decade's experience of working with young people and families, I can see that what you're describing is a rapidly deteriorating situation that is putting a child and a woman in danger. I can also see that your friend is incapable of recognising that danger or of ensuring the safety of her child because she has been so ground down by her husband's behaviour.

The fact that she has opened up to you for the first time about this shows that things are escalating and she is becoming frightened. This is a huge warning sign.

As her friend, if she cannot help herself, you have to help her.

You are not reporting her to social services. You are reporting a child you believe to be at risk. This isn't about apportioning blame or getting your friend in trouble. It's about ensuring the safety of a child who is not able to get herself to safety or advocate for herself in any way.

What you have to think about is how you would feel if tomorrow night his paranoia resulted in him strangling your friend, or hitting her, or hitting their child, or setting the house on fire, or any number of other things a dangerously unbalanced man might do, and you know you knew this was a possibility and did nothing.

I know you are in an incredibly difficult position. I know it's easy for me to say this as I'm not risking anything. But from a totally objective perspective, and having seen first hand how quickly situations can go from being a bit shit but manageable to disastrous when it comes to domestic violence, I really think you need to act on what you've been told.

If there weren't a child involved, I'd be more inclined to go gently. But just imagine how frightened that little girl must be in that house. How much longer do you think that should go on for before someone does something?

I’d get very serious with her and tell her that her daughter won’t need the house or school place if she’s dead. She needs to protect her daughter, and herself of course but perhaps the thought she’s putting her daughter in danger might force her to act. My mum’s cousin was murdered by her husband and their 7 month old baby. She went back after leaving him to collect clothes. She can still talk about the house / buying him out with solicitors even if she moves out

I’m just scared to do or advise something that may trigger his paranoia and rage further

I agree OP. It’s all very well posters saying ‘report every little incident to the police’ but sadly the police will not do much and she risks enraging him if he knows she reported it.

I’ve been in this situation (I left eventually) and I know that if I had called the police things could have got very nasty indeed.

She does need to get out though. Would she agree to leave for a week or so to go to family? I also agree about trying to get him assessed.

Her family are very chilled people and they are genuinely worried he’s going to kill her and/or their daughter.

I only got this far, but really, if she doesn't get away soon her obsession over the house will cease to be relevant.

Nothing you can do, though, except repeatedly state that she needs to leave.

Sorry, but so much of this is just untrue.

Social workers are very experienced and used to parents who are trying to hide what is going on behind closed doors.

Social services know what to look for and they won't be fooled.

Recent events would suggest otherwise, wouldn’t they?

She will honestly never know it was you.

Of course she will!

The criteria for having someone sectioned if is there is reason to be they are a danger to themselves and others.

I'd in this situation to the local social services about your concerns as there's reason to be the 3 year is in danger.

A couple of years ago there was an incident in the county where I live where a man like this tied up his wife and three kids and stabbed them and then himself.The two older children were the only ones that survived.

I wouldn’t leave it to chance with social workers, agree with@BuildersTeaMaker he needs sectioning and medication. as soon as possible.

I think he's had a break down. X

Nobody has mentioned that if she did get the house, he would still be entitled to enter with his own key, at least that is what I gathered from thread I was reading yesterday.

OP, my own dd was in an abusive relationship and if she hadn't left him I would have called ss to have the child removed.

🤔I didn’t say he needs sectioning

unless it is by the police it is unlikely , based on above accounts that he’d ever be sectioned,.
that is not how it works- he will only be sectioned if he is mentally incompetent and a danger to himself or others. .
in 20 years my ex was simply never admitted to hospital or sectioned . If he had been he’d probably have had a better quality of diagnosis . I did say that

posters on MN are always saying people need to be sectioned. It just doesn’t work like that . Being sectioned is extremely rare these days and limited to people who have attempted to take their lives, or are killing themselves slowly with eating disorders, or who have attacked someone else. Part of reason they don’t section people as it’s a waste of time due to there not being any beds

@BuildersTeaMaker I don't want to challenge your experiences because you clearly have a lot of relevant and helpful advice gained through sad experience but you aren't entirely correct with all the circumstances for sectioning - probably just the health care lottery approach for mental health

Family member was sectioned for months, partly because they didn't realise that they weren't capable of looking after themselves - no violence, eating disorder, suicide, although they did have a mental health diagnosis. They spent more than 8 months as an in patient in a specialist hospital. We did speak to the gp initially explaining our concerns, who invited them in for a check up and after meeting with them, referred them on - when they refused to engage with this second tier of services, it was decided a section for assessment and then a subsequent one for treatment was necessary.

Not trying to pick squabbles, just pointing out that sometimes there can be that assistance available because if someone has told me two years ago when I was starting to try to sort this out that it couldn't have been done, I'd have felt even more desperate and worried than I did.

Your advice is very considered, and I'm just offering up a slightly different experience

This is an excellent post and says far more succinctly what I came on to say.

I understand your concerns about making the situation worse, but your friend and her DD are already in danger and something needs to happen urgently.

Could you call the NSPCC (anonymously) for advice? Don’t pass the number to your friend and ask her to call - you need to do it. Tell them what you know, and listen to their advice. There is a child in need of safeguarding here and they can talk things through with you.

I am pleased to here that not all mental health services then are completely failing patients. We lived in 3 different health authorities over those 20 years, 2 down south and one up north and they were all about the same.
it is not the staff - they were in the main very good and doing a job that no few people really want to do
itmis lack of money. One area had just 1 single psychiatrist for all adult mental health community care patients. Just one. I had to push so hard for even 1 appointment per year. The talking therapies that should have also been there just didn’t exist. Let alone family intervention therepy- all things that NICE state are on the care path. It was like banging my head against a brick wall.

I know through support groups I went to there were patients who had violently attacked other people still being discharged into community becuase they would not section anyone who “had a home to go to”.

so, if other health authorities have money that’s great…it shows what can be done

She needs to protect her child. If she doesn’t then she will be seen as a problem by social services. Her child needs to be elsewhere.

You sound like a great friend OP. Good advice above 💐

I know through support groups I went to there were patients who had violently attacked other people still being discharged into community becuase they would not section anyone who “had a home to go to”

yes. I had to refuse to accept my very disturbed husband home on a weekly basis....

She's needs to forget about the house for now, put her child's (and her own welfare) first and get the hell out of there. A house is no use to you if you're dead. Would her parents put them up for a while?

He's obviously unhinged and sounds unpredictable, volatile and violent. But sounds like he has no prior record or had any police involvement, so it might be a challenge to get him removed in a way that keeps them safe. Even with a restraining order/non mol order, he doesn't sound like the sort of person who'd abide by it.

As for the house, even if she could afford to take on the 200k mortgage, the husband would be entitled to some share of the equity. Unless they've got other substantial assets (pensions?), then it's unlikely she could afford to keep that house anyway.