Can this be right?

[Dave277]

I've had a row with my girlfriend. We were aiming to have a discussion about boundaries and behaviours with social media use, and it's gone badly before we even reach that point.

Basically she tells me that it's possible for someone (her) to post a Facebook comment, tagging someone else in (an attractive man), and whilst she concedes the POST is flirtatious, it doesn't mean she was flirting when did posted it. To be clear, this does not relate to within our relationship, it's basically become some sort of theoretical argument between us !

I struggle with this because I think if you are posting a Facebook comment that you admit is flirty, then surely you're flirting? She tells me I am wrong and that the comment is flirtatious but when she made the post, she wasn't actually flirting. She says they are two different things. She also says it was a long time ago so doesn't matter. My view is, I didn't actually care if it was flirting I just wanted us to have a talk about boundaries and behaviours on social media use and agree common ground and am a bit shocked that we are miles apart in what flirting actually is. The comment in question was about cocks, albeit jokey. She tagged the guy in. I have no problem saying that in the past I've flirted on social media, we've all done it. And to me, if I have made a flirty comment and tagged a woman in, then yep I would have been flirting. I just thought that was pretty obvious really. I wouldn't split hairs like this and I just wondered what other people thought of it. I was pretty sure that if you post a flirtatious comment (and admit it was) then by definition you're flirting, but she's telling me it is two different things.

One of the reasons for the discussion is because she previously told me she'd ordered a hoodie off a bloke (who'd she'd said was fit) and had mentioned her tits to him, which worried me a bit as we'd been together a while by then. I felt a bit uncomfortable. She changed the story and said I'd misunderstood somehow. I left it but I knew she'd said it to me. Anyway fast forward to last week and the post crops up, showing she was tagging this guy into a post about her tits, as in, being bigger than average. She came clean and admitted previously lying to me. So that was that, and then she's said to me that it's possible for a social media post to be flirtatious, without it meaning the person posting it is actually flirting. Comments appreciated. Thanks for reading.

Hi. We were aiming to have a talk about boundaries and behaviours with social media use. It was just a case of fitting it in, it wasn't massively urgent. And then this old Facebook post came up and I've been shocked at her stance. If it was the other way round I'd simply take a quick glance and say "yep, that was me flirting, so what" (as it was in the past). She has decided to dig her heels in on the hypothetical in this. She is flat out telling me I am wrong and that it's perfectly possible to post a flirtatious comment to an attractive man, without that meaning she is flirting. I see no point trying to have a broader conversation because I just can't understand the splitting hairs approach. Which is nothing new, she always does it. I have literally begged for her to speak in plain English. Even the last relationship councillor was telling her to be more like that.

You sound like a lovely guy and she doesn't deserve you. Please get out of this toxic relationship.

Thank you (and everyone else) for your responses. She has low self esteem and sometimes says she hates herself over how she's behaved. She has in fairness tried things to demonstrate she can change. My problem with her stance on this issue is it gives me no hope of trust developing. To me, if a couple are going to establish boundaries and behaviours for social media use, surely the wording of any posts/ messages has to be relevant? She seems to give herself a free pass, saying that regardless of the post content, she knows, is absolutely sure, that she didn't find this guy attractive and therefore it wasn't flirting. As she says, yes the post content (jokey reference to cocks) was flirty, but when she tagged him in, that doesn't constitute flirting. To me, my worry is that in future if we have an issue over this sort of thing, she can use the same evasive approach; a case of, nevermind what the post or message was, I know full well I wasn't flirting. I've begged her in the past to show more ownership of her actions, eg all the lying. And I guess I'm back there again over this, I'm just dismayed at the use of clever wording. I don't trust her, and am still hanging in there trying to build trust. The conversation on boundaries and behaviours with social media was my idea. She's still all for it - desperate really - yet is coming to it off the back of this crap. To me it just means that there could be flirtatious messages in future and she'll dismiss it as an issue because she "knows" it wasn't. I'm gobsmacked and the good thing about me making this post on here and getting feedback is I feel like I'm not going crazy. To me you mainly judge flirting on what was said, not some unprovable inner feeling as to why you said it. Tagging an attractive man into a Facebook post about cock meets my criteria that's for sure. I think she's dug herself into a hole on this, as she sometimes does. She's very stubborn. She is adamant she won't behave like this in our relationship and says that should be enough. I just feel she's talking crap. I honestly couldn't give a monkies about the old post. It's just crushing that we're miles apart.

I love her and want this to work but she makes it very hard with stuff like this

aka 'I love her and want this to work but she makes it hard by lying to me and disrespecting me.'

She's shown you who she is. Who she is makes you feel uncomfortable. Take responsibility for yourself and leave, rather than expecting that she change herself to fit your needs.

What example were you set when you were growing up? Were your parents loving and respectful towards each other? Did they love you, listen to you, and respect your feelings? You've learned, somewhere along the way, that being lied to and cheated on is what love looks like. It isn't. This is an unhealthy relationship with someone you're not compatible with. It's your responsibility to get yourself into a better situation where you are respected and listened to, it's not her responsibility to turn into someone she's not.

She has low self esteem and sometimes says she hates herself over how she's behaved

So she has some work to do on herself before she can entertain the idea of being in a relationship. She hasn't even managed to have a healthy relationship with herself yet, so how would you expect her to have a healthy relationship with anyone else?

Right. My relationship with my DP is as follows- we have a nice time. We love chilling together or going out. We have amazing sex, we have hard days and shit days. He picks up bits of shopping I need, I walk his dog when he's stressed.
Neither of us EVER worry about other people in this relationship because we are both fully committed and completely in love. We both leave phones around, we both trust the other that any interactions with the opposite sex are appropriate and it isn't even a conversation to be had as I feel absolutely no desire to be with anyone but him, and I trust he feels the same about me.

There is better out there for you, don't settle for this. Be with someone who feels sick at the smallest thought of hurting you like this.

She is adamant she won't behave like this in our relationship and says that should be enough

She doesn't get to decide what you 'should' feel. That's massively disrespectful of her. Take your eyes off the flirting issue; it's a symptom, it's not the problem. The problem is that she doesn't want the same relationship that you want. You can't change what she wants (ie 'tell her how she should feel') because you respect her. You also can't tell yourself how you 'should' feel, because feelings don't work like that.

You're a decent, respectable, respectful man. Respect her feelings, allow her to be who she is. Respect your feelings, allow yourself to be who you are. Respect the fact that the two of you don't match. You're not compatible. Move on, knowing you've taken responsibility for understanding and accepting your own feelings. That's all you have to be responsible for. Not her, her troubled mind, her difficult behaviours. You look after you. Until you start doing that, you can't offer a healthy relationship to anybody else, and you're not offering a healthy relationship to her. If you were, you wouldn't need her to change.

I agree with everyone else that this specific argument isn't the main thing. But I know what it feels like to get stuck on a point of detail.

So you could ask yourself- what's the definition of "flirting" to me?

Could be a) making yourself feel good by reaching out to someone with the intention of them validating your sexual appeal, but clear you won't take it further. Or b) reaching out to someone for that validation aiming to take it further and testing the water.

Sounds to me like your gf is saying "I wasn't doing B so I wasn't flirtING" - ie being flirty with an aim of action in view. You are saying that she was doing A - seeking validation, what she would call making a flirtatious comment or being flirt-Y.

It sounds like you are unhappy with both motivations and activities- posting things that show her as a sexual person (look everyone, I have big tits) or things that suggest she wants to do more (I have big tits, @ random man, would you like to shag me?)

She's got low self esteem, mental health issues, lies, manipulates and tries to end the relationship weekly. Let her.

You didn't break her, you can't fix her. You'll damage yourself trying.

Yes, @OrlandointheWilderness , it's a good point to say what a healthy relationship feels like. There are no concerns about trust. There are no concerns about behaviour towards other people. It just doesn't cross your mind. As soon as it does, the relationship has become unhealthy, because your boundary has already been crossed.

How old are you both 13 ?
Take this advice. Get off social media Both if you. It's a pointless waste of time. Your relationship will be loads better without it.

"I want to support and look after her, but I need honesty".

You will never get that from her. A person cannot act as either a rescuer or saviour in a relationship; neither approach works as you are all too clearly seeing. You are not a rebab centre for her nor should be acting as such to this individual.

What do you get out of this relationship now?. Think about this very carefully.

You need to walk away from her before she drags you further down with her.
Stop bogging yourself down in your sunk costs; future investment in what is already a bad investment is not going to somehow come good here.

No, it won't. She doesn't respect him, and he doesn't respect himself. Focussing on social media is hugely missing the point. A healthy relationship isn't defined by the level of social media use.

Again, thanks for all the replies. Picking up on this one, to me, I don't really have a rock solid definition of flirting, but a woman tagging a fit bloke into a jokey comment about cock qualifies. And to be fair my partner is saying it will never happen in our relationship. She thinks that should be enough. I'd prefer we agree that doing the thing I've highlighted is flirting. I guess that would make me feel more confident moving forward. She wants it both ways. The specific instance in question WASN'T her flirting but she acknowledges the post WAS flirting. That hair splitting worries me. I'd simply not argue the toss. If I tagged a woman into a post referencing the equivalent, I'd hold my hands up, and just say yep, fair enough, no worries, that was me flirting. It won't happen in our relationship and I hear you. I wouldn't fight it and argue with clever wording. I'd want to build bridges not create doubt.

At best she's a massive flirt who gets off on leading other men on (a dangerous game). At worst she's a compulsive cheat and is turning it all around on you, blaming it on you being paranoid, not trusting her. She isn't going to change. This behaviour is a function of her personality (or personality disorder, classic BPD behaviour). From what you've said, I'd bet that she's been carrying on with the other bloke after you got together. The best lie is the one that's closest to the truth.

She sounds a bit like my ex - when challenged on her compulsive flirting she always countered with something like "don't be silly, I'm just being friendly, I'm like it with everyone". Reality was she was flirting with everyone, and would sleep with anyone who didn't push her away.

I agree with a PP that she's showing some behaviours consistent with how narcissists operate. It sounds like she love bombed you in the beginning, creating a false picture of her personality, with which you fell in love. Now the mask has slipped and you realise she is habitually dishonest and manipulative. But you're still in love with the person you thought she was.

Sadly, that woman doesn't exist. What you've got is what you've got - a dishonest, manipulative person who is incapable of being in a healthy relationship.

You have told her how hurtful it is for her to keep threatening to end the relationship. She has promised to change. She threatened you again yesterday. She won't change, and you can't fix her.

Be aware that if you end the relationship, she may well flip into victim mode and threaten to kill herself. If she does, phone 101 and report this to the police. (This is the official advice from mental health charities and the police, not me being harsh.)

You deserve a lot better than this OP.

OP, it doesn't matter what your definition of flirting is. She's behaving in a way you don't like, and disregarding your feelings. Do you want a partner who treats you that way?

I think she sounds rather childish. She is not respecting your boundaries and doesnt seem to care. It all seems very difficult to me - should it really be so hard?

she was tagging this guy into a post about her tits, as in, being bigger than average and tagging a fit bloke into a jokey comment about cock

OP, it seems to me that your GF's need for affirmation from random men is greater than her sense of respect for you and, indeed, all taste and decorum.

The flirting post was before we met, I just used it with her as an example. I honestly thought it was nothing, just a "yep.. let's have a look... Yep no worries, ok that's flirting, I recognise your understanding of what flirting is and it won't happen in our relationship". Honestly, I just expected it to go like that. It wasn't meant to kick off as it has. The one about her tits, she told me that last year, so she did lie to me. The purchase was a year earlier, and the incriminating FB post. So why she said it last year, god knows, am just pointing this out for accuracy.

This is the source of frustration over her wanting it both ways. On the one hand she says she was not flirting. On the other hand she says she "gets it" and admits the post was flirting. And she is adamant this will not happen in our relationship, and hasn't. So mixed messages, some positive.

No I absolutely don't. It's a work in progress. She would be the first to admit she is damaged and was not ready for a relationship. When we talk, sometimes she gets it and the penny drops. But she is very stubborn and digs in. In the past she's realised this is a flaw and apologised. I love her and I still want to try to make it work. I don't expect perfection. Just honesty. It may be that at a later point (her life is full of drama at the moment) I show her this thread, as a dose of reality. I'm sure part of her is kicking herself over the stance she's needlessly taken. She is not a stupid person, I won't mention what she does for a living but you could call her a high achiever. She is very stubborn and admits she is damaged by the past tragic events. None of us would swap places with her. No one person should go through what she's gone through. I know it's not my job to fix her but I am where I am and if it doesn't work out I want to know I gave it my absolute best shot. There is simply no preparation in life for a relationship like this. At times it is brilliant. I really do appreciate all views expressed on here, it's very insightful and has reassured me that I'm not crazy.

Thank you. This is quite an eye opener. It's hard for me to give a full picture on a forum, I am strong enough to walk away from a relationship, I've done it twice before due to incompatibility. In this situation I want to know, should I do that, that I did absolutely everything possible. She is damaged. That was never an issue for me. That may make be weird but hey ho. I'm a strong person. I just need trust and honesty. Both her and I know and accept she has caused damage, possibly terminal damage. It's not like either of us think it's all sunshine and roses. She knows its basically make or break, which is why her ridiculous stance about flirting is such an own goal on her part.

Just ask yourself this question honestly.

Can you be arsed with this for the rest of your life?

Really?

Yeah I'd love it 🤣

No is the honest answer and she knows I'm at my limit