Why do mature supposedly smart men do this?

[Monroewasabombshell]

I am trying to decide whether to get back with my ex (separated for 2 years). We have no children, both early 30s, and were together for 7 years.

For the record, I perceive myself to be a smart, liberal, hard working type of woman. I have built a solid life and career for myself, have a great group of friends, work out, and generally just really enjoy life. I don't feel like I need a man to complete me, but I did/do love my ex. I would say my ex is very similar to me in the characteristics I have just described.

In the time we have been apart, he has been playing the field a bit. I guess making up for lost time, as we met in our early 20s and were pretty serious from day one.

In the last 2 years, he has had 1 official girlfriend of 5 months. That relationship ended with him leaving her because he didn't feel he loved her, multiple one night stands and situationships, and a casual fling of 1 year. The casual fling was more fuck buddy than relationship, but surprisingly they used no contraception whatsoever once they became comfortable a few months into the fling. When I say no contraception, I mean no contraception. No protection against STDs and no birth control. They relied on the pull out method.

I ended the relationship, so he is well within his rights to do what he did with dating, but I am really questioning who he is right now. I cannot understand why he would do this, and the fact he took such a risk with his fling is really making me question whether to go back into the relationship. Why do supposedly smart men take such risks?

He wasn't relying on withdrawal he was relying on her getting an abortion if she got pregnant.

That's what men assume women they're not married to will do.

They just dont tell us this.

Or they've discussed it and decided on abortion if things go wrong together

Not everyone assumes

Some people talk like grown ups

I, like most women, get pregnant every time I have unprotected sex

What? Most women do not get pregnant every time they have unprotected sex. That’s a ridiculous claim.

I think you should try again. You were young and circumstances didn’t allow for it to work. I wish I had the opportunity to reconnect with my one that got away, I’d jump on the opportunity.

it is weird you know so much about his sex life tho.

You can't honestly believe most women get pregnant every time they have unprotected sex

In fact the majority of women don't get pregnant every time they have unprotected sex

The 'pull out' method seems incredibly risky.
Once men reach the point of no return during sex, it is exactly like they are under some kind of spell, and I can't imagine it's particularly easy to stop.

It wasn't only him taking a risk with this method, was it? Presumably the gf was happy with it too? I think it's a bit unfair to describe her as a fling if they were together for a year, especially if both happy to take risks with contraception. But maybe she wasn't happy, or maybe she secretly wanted to get pg?
But whatever. It's in the past, and I hope nothing comes back to bite him. I would give him another go, but with contraception!

I have the same thoughts. We are both a bit older now and have both realised that what we had was special.

Yes, I guess so. I am getting all the information second hand from our mutual friends and trying to piece it together to make sense of it and decide whether I should go back to the relationship and whether he is actually ready to settle down completely.

It was definitely a fling, and not an official girlfriend. He confided in one friend about her, but none of our friends ever met her. She is nowhere to be seen on any of his social media either.

I am going to assume she secretly wanted to get pg as it doesn't seem logical that two people would continue to have sex for one year with no birth control. The question is, was he also secretly hoping to get her pg. That seems unlikely to me because she was a fling and not an official girlfriend.

I want to give it another go, but this time, I need us both to have plans for how it's going to work before I commit again.

This is going to sound very harsh but I don't think you should commit to/invest in/whatever a relationship with a man who is irresponsible.

He's v irresponsible in 2 wars - risking pregnancy with a non serious long term partner. She may not want to have a termination, he's on the hook for 18 plus yrs of child maintenance, if he's a reniteky decent person, would have to forge a relationship with his child, his next partner would have to be a step mum if their relationship goes anywhere, he wouldn't have h in s first child with his wife/long term partner, his partner wouldn't get that (uncomplicated/ first with him either ..... A huge huge thing to take such a risk on, repeatedly.

Secondly he's very irresponsible about STDs.

If you were to be his next partner, is he even going to suggest mutual screening (which is not fool proof either) himself? I'd like to see whether he did.
Why would anyone take that risk with a non serious, non longterm partner either?

2 ways, obviously.

His behaviour dies not speak of someone who's responsible, who takes care of others and himself, who thinks about consequences, who realistically assess risks etc.

That's all different from being "smart".

You won't find out whether he's ready to settle down with you by picking over details of what he did when you were apart, delivered to you second hand. Only time and how he treats you will reveal that.
To be honest, I think you're going to struggle with this. You had feelings for him throughout your time apart and obviously feel some sense of rights to know the details of what he did then, almost as though you were never apart. In fact, you should really know nothing of that time unless he chooses to share it. Your level of interest and analysis of his relationships suggests they may well be an issue that haunts your future.
If you trust the gossip he appears to have been very irresponsible and I can understand how you wouldn't feel the same. But I suspect the fact that he's had these relationships and you know far more than you should about them might also make it hard for you to feel the same.

Practically, you'd both have a full sexual health check. I'd also want to be certain that none of his lovers are pregnant before getting involved with him again. So that requires some months of wait and see. Can you trust that he's no longer sleeping with any of them?

Relationship-wise, you split for a reason. You'd be the one taking the risk of moving, of losing your job and your home, on the off-chance things are different now. It's a huge gamble for you, while he just sits back, at home, and waits for you to get back into his bed! I think you might be focusing on the women as a proxy for how unequal this reconciliation would be, how fraught with uncertainty it is for you.

On a general note, humans being the flawed and often very foolish creatures we are; I find people who take risks think that - when they get away with the risk - that's proof/confirmation that that risk can be gotten away with, that they'll get away with it again etc etc.

So when they get away with the risk of unprotected sex once, twice etc (which is not that hard to get away with a few times because there are only about 5 days per cycle women can generally get pregnant and even a mid 20s couple with no fertility issues oy have a 25 per cent chance of getting pregnant each cycle) .... They think it's proof the risk can be taken,bit sad ok, it'll be ok again; but risk per cycle, played out over an increasing number of cycles becomes "odds". And odds will catch you sooner or later. They're getting higher each time you the the chance/risk... Not in line with the "got away with these times, will continue to get away with it" totally flawed mentality that contraception riskers have.

In he and his ex whatever the fk she id's case, they possibly just didn't take quite enough risks around the right time. Also there are men who have sperm in their pre ejaculate and men who tend not to. Not possible to know without looking at it microscopically.

Maybe he's lucky and is one of the latter.

But he could easily have not been or they could easily have reached the point when their odds turned sooner or later.

And the man you're thinking of getting back with could have a pregnant ex, an 18 yr plus financial commitment, a life long emotional commitment/responsibility etc.

He doesn't seem to have given much of a fuck. He doesn't seem to have given much of a fuck in a number of ways - the child, any future relationship with you (or anyone else) etc.

Not a great idea to invest in someone so lackadaisical, flaky, irresponsible.

The question is, was he also secretly hoping to get her pg. That seems unlikely to me because she was a fling and not an official girlfriend.

Well no, that's not really the question.the question is why, knowing she wasn't using any contraception either, he chose to have sex with her without using any for a (?) year.

And if you have come to the conclusion that perhaps she secretly wanted to get pregnant, why wouldn't he? So doubly why would he have unprotected sex, relying on withdrawal with her for a year?

He is therefore;

Extremely irresponsible and risk taking if he really didn't want a child with her.

A man who believed she'd get an abortion if she got pregnant (I'm not keen on the "abortion as birth control" contingent, don't know about you). But he couldn't be sure she would and couldn't make her; so still a massive risk. And if he thought, like you, that perhaps she secretly wanted to get pregnant; doubly how could he think she'd def have an abortion.

A man who was theoretically ok with the concept of impregnating her and the consequences.

DH and I used the withdrawal method. Was 100% reliable. 7 pregnancies, all planned down to a month or two. It wouldn't have been disastrous if it hadn't worked. And given the available options it was much the best for us at the time. Withdrawal requires a huge amount of trust on both parts as it can be more risky than other methods. But it's not a hugely irresponsible option if the man had good control.
No method is 100%. Every time you have sex there is a possibility that a pregnancy could result. Only safe option is not to have sex.

Give it another go-get tested first and take no risks, at least if it goes wrong he'll be out of your system!

If MN has taught me anything, it's to be wary. I think that he is probably still shagging this women while talking about getting back together with you.

Most women who have unplanned pregnancies in casual relationships have abortions.

It's not so much of a risk for a man to take.

Most men do it.

To me it sounds like you broke his heart and he was a bit reckless afterwards.

However, I can’t see how you really can love him if after 7 years you wouldn’t try and get a job where he was (as he couldn’t move) or wait it out a bit longer until one of you could move.

having said that maybe since you’ve split you realise that actually you do love him or is it because it is practical to do so now?

If I were his friend I would tell him to be wary.

If I were your friend I would tell you to give it a go but don’t move there until you are sure.

Or it could be that he’s the easy option for you now? You’ve quit your job so are at sea a bit and humans always seek familiarity. Our brains always prefer us to go with what we know.

I absolutely loved him. I gave up my first job to follow him for 2 years to another city where he was based. I made a number of sacrifices and was very patient, which he acknowledged. When I had to move city, he didn't follow me immediately, though made a promise to after his secondment was over which was 2 years later. So we had 2 years long distance. When those 2 years were up, he moved to my city but couldn't get a job, so he had to leave after 3 months. It was at that point that I decided to end the relationship.

That last bit is what I am really struggling with. Was he really theoretically ok with the concept of impregnating her and the consequences?

I am really struggling to move past that. He is either lying about the nature of his relationship with the woman or he really has changed and has become someone I just don't recognise. All evidence points to the latter which makes me extremely nervous.

The fact that he did pull-out with a fling would make me lose respect for him. I think he had a casual assumption that this woman would get an abortion if she got pregnant, and no man should do that.

If his friends are telling you negative things about him there is a reason. I have been that friend and reason was that he was not a good pick. A fun friend but a bad boyfriend. It’s a neutral way to wave big red flags in your face. They have a reason.

Two people had sex and agreed the contraceptive method. Both were reckless but passion and hormones does that to people deliberately.

My reading, he has the serious hots for this person. Beware of the whole situation.