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Original poster

Need to get my head round this friendship

43 replies

KnowtheBand · 30/08/2022 09:31

I've namechanged because there's going to be some detail and I fear it will be long, sorry.

I've known a man for a really long time. We've always had a very mild flirtation after a drink, but I was married and he's a divorced man who gets through a lot of girlfriends.

He has a very attractive much younger female "friend" and whilst I believe she only sees it as friendship (she's young enough to still want children, he has three adult children), I'm sure he'd jump at the chance for more. When she is at an event he barely talks to anyone else and he's quite handsy with her, which she doesn't seem to mind.

I know she has been at least part of the problem in many of his relationships. He is very clear that anyone who is with him will have to accept this friendship, which is obviously very important to him, but I can see that it would be very difficult for any woman to deal with.

Anyway, I've been at two events with him this weekend. The first she was there, I had fun with the group, but very little to do with him, as he was otherwise occupied.

The second she wasn't there, we had a really fun afternoon with the group, then went on to party into the evening, just the two of us. Nothing "happened" but we would have absolutely looked like a couple, in fact some strangers told us what a nice couple we made. I suspect we stood out because we were having more fun than couples often do mind.

He was very well behaved, but he held my hand all the way to the train (we're far too old for that, but had been drinking, slowly, all day by this point). We were nicely sozzled, but not incapable. Then we said a quick goodbye and that was that. He asked me to let him know I was safely home, which I did and he replied thanks for great day etc. I haven't heard from him since and don't expect to, until the next time we're out in a group.

So he's a fun friend with occasional sexual tension which isn't going anywhere. That's fine with me, I'm not getting in the middle of the thing with the younger friend and TBH although we have fun at a party together, I'm not sure there's anything there to give any relationship much substance. I'm not looking for "someone", just to enjoy life for a bit.

However, I do also feel a bit used in that if younger friend is available, I'm not needed/wanted at all, the same way I'd feel if a female friend was only interested if they didn't have a better offer iyswim

Step away altogether or enjoy it when it happens?

OP posts:
Isittrueornot · 30/08/2022 09:37

Step away. You’ll get hurt and if not hurt, angry and frustrated or your self esteem will lower. Basically, there is nothing good in it for you.

Original poster
KnowtheBand · 30/08/2022 09:49

Isittrueornot · 30/08/2022 09:37

Step away. You’ll get hurt and if not hurt, angry and frustrated or your self esteem will lower. Basically, there is nothing good in it for you.

Yes, it interesting because whilst I don't disagree with you and am very much approaching the whole thing with caution, atm it gives me a bit of a boost

OP posts:
goldfinchonthelawn · 30/08/2022 10:01

I wouldn't have much respect for a man who graded his friendships with women on their sexual desirability and basically blanked some B-graded friends if the Grade A woman was around, then schmoozed them when she wasn't.

I would find that so off putting it would be hard to like the man who did it. So, yes, I would not make an effort with this man at all, and certainly wouldn't read anything into his honouring B-list you with a bit of flirting only if no one sexier (in his opinion) is available. Ew.

But if you genuinely don;t care at all that he does this, and quite enjoy the flirtation when it happens, stick with it on your terms. But don't assume it is anything other than a momentary ego-massage for him.

hattie43 · 30/08/2022 10:09

I think you are going to end up hurt so step away . Until he resolves this ' crush ' on the younger woman you can assume he's not emotionally available . I also think if he and this younger woman were going to get together it would have happened by now so maybe she's not interested .

TheYearOfSmallThings · 30/08/2022 10:14

I think he sounds like a messer, and I also think if he really wanted a relationship (or even regular sex) he wouldn't be out holding hands and "looking like a couple" with various women, but not trying his luck at the end of the night.

You are just there to pamper his ego and you can absolutely definitely find a man who actually sees you as a real person to actually be with, as opposed to someone to make him look good.

billy1966 · 30/08/2022 10:16

He's a sleazy older man sniffing around any off chance with this "friend".

THAT you can be sure of.

What on earth would you see in a man like that.

Nothing flattering in it.

You are messing with your low self esteem to even entertain this.

Original poster
KnowtheBand · 30/08/2022 10:19

I don't think he's "grading" his friends. It's that there's one woman who he'd like to be more than friends with, even if he's not admitting it to himself.

She is a very lovely and interesting woman. Possibly the most beautiful woman I know and tremendously accomplished in a careers and a side business, plus does loads of charity and humanitarian stuff. I don't know how she does it or where she finds the time. She mixes with the great and the good one weekend, fits in fine with the likes of us the next and will be on a mercy mission in a worn torn state the next. All the while remaining very modest and remembering to ask about what you spoke of last time!

When I first met her I thought it was all too good to be true and there must be some sort of scam around her, but we've known her a long time now, so if there is she's playing a very long game.

I can quite see why he's so infatuated, but I don't think there's anything there for him. In fact, in terms of damaging friendships, his with her is probably more harmful to him, than mine is with him.

To be clear I don't want a proper relationship with him, or anyone else atm, but it is good to get out and have some fun. He's a good looking chap himself and kind, actually. I don't see him from one month to the next, but if I was stranded with e.g. a broken down car or a flooded kitchen, he's someone I could call and know would come.

OP posts:
skgnome · 30/08/2022 10:24

Ok he’s “handsy” with her and holds hand with you - he’s not looking for friendships!
he’s at least looking for an ego boost
you saying you feel like the friend option B… really?
yes some people are closer friends with others and I’ve been in the situation where I hang more with someone - because we click more, and if that person is not around I just chat with someone else… but what you describe is jealousy- which is not normal on friendships where nothing else is going on
you seem to at least have a minor crush on him - which can be totally innocent and you may not even want to act on it…
but honestly I would recommend to back away

Original poster
KnowtheBand · 30/08/2022 10:26

I agree he doesn't come out of this well if you've seen him with the young woman, but her life is such that we don't see that much of her and in every other way you'd think he was lovely. Always quick to help, generous with time and money, thoughtful.

There are definitely issues he needs to sort out though, but again I don't want to be "the one" just enjoy the odd night out. It's actually quite nice to spend time with a man knowing there's no expectation for it to be going anywhere.

OP posts:
Original poster
KnowtheBand · 30/08/2022 10:34

TheYearOfSmallThings · 30/08/2022 10:14

I think he sounds like a messer, and I also think if he really wanted a relationship (or even regular sex) he wouldn't be out holding hands and "looking like a couple" with various women, but not trying his luck at the end of the night.

You are just there to pamper his ego and you can absolutely definitely find a man who actually sees you as a real person to actually be with, as opposed to someone to make him look good.

He probably doesn't want a relationship. I don't either. That's OK. In fact he did declare after his last relationship ended that he was staying single.

Actually I've sometimes wondered if he's gay and all the women are just a front.

It's all very interesting to watch.

OP posts:
gannett · 30/08/2022 10:47

I don't really know what advice you want - if anything the one who needs to get their head around the situation is him!

Seems like you've assessed the situation with a clear head. He's infatuated by her but she doesn't see it that way.

You enjoy mildly flirting with him and don't seem to want anything more than this - seems like either party's unavailability doesn't have an effect on this. You flirted with him when you were married. He flirts with you despite crushing hard on this other woman. You both know where you stand, I think? It's fine if you're fine. If you low-key want more then you need to pull back but if you're really OK, then that's that!

He's probably on a hiding to nothing and not making himself happy by crushing on his other friend but that's really his problem.

Original poster
KnowtheBand · 30/08/2022 10:49

gannett · 30/08/2022 10:47

I don't really know what advice you want - if anything the one who needs to get their head around the situation is him!

Seems like you've assessed the situation with a clear head. He's infatuated by her but she doesn't see it that way.

You enjoy mildly flirting with him and don't seem to want anything more than this - seems like either party's unavailability doesn't have an effect on this. You flirted with him when you were married. He flirts with you despite crushing hard on this other woman. You both know where you stand, I think? It's fine if you're fine. If you low-key want more then you need to pull back but if you're really OK, then that's that!

He's probably on a hiding to nothing and not making himself happy by crushing on his other friend but that's really his problem.

Yes, thank you, that's exactly how I see it. I guess I was pondering how it looks from outside and as PP have explained, it doesn't look good.

He's a big boy and hopefully can look after himself, but I do sometimes think lovely young woman knows what she's doing and worry for him.

OP posts:
Original poster
KnowtheBand · 30/08/2022 10:52

I definitely don't want more. I did begin to wonder how the evening would end, and was a little surprised, but it was a relief that it ended quickly!

Us being together would mess up all my (overlapping) friendship groups.

OP posts:
gannett · 30/08/2022 11:05

KnowtheBand · 30/08/2022 10:49

Yes, thank you, that's exactly how I see it. I guess I was pondering how it looks from outside and as PP have explained, it doesn't look good.

He's a big boy and hopefully can look after himself, but I do sometimes think lovely young woman knows what she's doing and worry for him.

Show quote history

I've known a few lovely young woman types and in my experience they don't really think about the amount of people who crush on them. It happens a lot so they're unfazed by it and their strategy is to just plough on as normal - but they're also so focused on the zillion projects they have in their lives that men and relationships are not really uppermost in their thoughts. (I have a friend like that who actually finally got together with a man she was really into, only to break up 3 months later because she didn't have time for a relationship on top of her career, activism, charity work and hobbies, all of which were more important to her.)

Original poster
KnowtheBand · 30/08/2022 11:53

gannett · 30/08/2022 11:05

I've known a few lovely young woman types and in my experience they don't really think about the amount of people who crush on them. It happens a lot so they're unfazed by it and their strategy is to just plough on as normal - but they're also so focused on the zillion projects they have in their lives that men and relationships are not really uppermost in their thoughts. (I have a friend like that who actually finally got together with a man she was really into, only to break up 3 months later because she didn't have time for a relationship on top of her career, activism, charity work and hobbies, all of which were more important to her.)

Show quote history

I don't know if that's quite what happening here. She does apparently want to have children and finished with her last boyfriend because he didn't.

Friend gives her a lot of time working on her house and business premises, for example, so it is possible he's being taken for a ride. OTOH that's his choice and he seems to like it. I had my fence replaced replaced recently and he told me off for paying someone to do it when he would have done it for me.

OP posts:
TheYearOfSmallThings · 30/08/2022 13:35

if I was stranded with e.g. a broken down car or a flooded kitchen, he's someone I could call and know would come

In fairness there is a lot to be said for that!

Original poster
KnowtheBand · 30/08/2022 13:49

TheYearOfSmallThings · 30/08/2022 13:35

if I was stranded with e.g. a broken down car or a flooded kitchen, he's someone I could call and know would come

In fairness there is a lot to be said for that!

Yes, those people are to be nurtured, especially when you're on your own without a partner to turn to. I hope I don't take advantage but on a practical basis having no one to help with these things is one of the hardest things about being widowed. You don't realise how many routine things actually take two adults or at least need two adults to get them done smoothly.

OP posts:
LemonDrop22 · 30/08/2022 14:23

First off, I'm not sure why you're writing them off as a potential couple with potential kids ... Older men can and do have kids. Just because his are grown up, doesn't mean he's totally closed off to a second family. Like some men, he may feel it's worth it, to have a beautiful young ish woman as their partner.

If he absolutely doesn't want more kids and that crops up in their communication (or relationship if it got that far) she'll have to end it like she did her last one. That's more her wasting time and getting hurt than him.

If she hooks up with someone else and he's disappointed - well, he needs to be realistic about the dating prospects and partner preferences of a considerably you get woman. He's have been punching to get her anyway.

Dunno why you're concerned for him. If he puts her above other prospects and gets disappointed, that's entirely due to his own ambition/lack of realism/shallowness.

But you've said he says he plans to stay single anyway so ....

Tbh you're giving him a lot of head space for supposedly being pretty laid back about the while thing. It sounds like you might have feelings, and yes, you'll get hurt here - because if he wanted you (above others) he'd be with you.

Original poster
KnowtheBand · 30/08/2022 14:33

LemonDrop22 · 30/08/2022 14:23

First off, I'm not sure why you're writing them off as a potential couple with potential kids ... Older men can and do have kids. Just because his are grown up, doesn't mean he's totally closed off to a second family. Like some men, he may feel it's worth it, to have a beautiful young ish woman as their partner.

If he absolutely doesn't want more kids and that crops up in their communication (or relationship if it got that far) she'll have to end it like she did her last one. That's more her wasting time and getting hurt than him.

If she hooks up with someone else and he's disappointed - well, he needs to be realistic about the dating prospects and partner preferences of a considerably you get woman. He's have been punching to get her anyway.

Dunno why you're concerned for him. If he puts her above other prospects and gets disappointed, that's entirely due to his own ambition/lack of realism/shallowness.

But you've said he says he plans to stay single anyway so ....

Tbh you're giving him a lot of head space for supposedly being pretty laid back about the while thing. It sounds like you might have feelings, and yes, you'll get hurt here - because if he wanted you (above others) he'd be with you.

Yes, I'm giving it some headspace because it's an unusual situation, for me. Also because I find the people aspect fascinating.

He definitely doesn't want more children, but that's not the reason she's not interested. She's 20 years younger and has plenty of options.

As for wanting to be with me if he wants to be...not if I don't want to be with him he won't. But I don't think he does want to be with me, nor doninwant him to.

I think I'm someone he likes and has fun with as part of a pretty wide social circle. Both single, so handy partners sometimes in a world where everything's set up for couples and where coupled up friends tend to be free for social things less often.

OP posts:
LemonDrop22 · 30/08/2022 14:35

As for wanting to be with me if he wants to be...not if I don't want to be with him he won't. But I don't think he does want to be with me, nor doninwant him to.

No offence but why did you feel the need to start a MN thread about him?

If you're that indifferent, I'm not sure why you'd even bother.

essex956 · 30/08/2022 14:43

KnowtheBand · 30/08/2022 10:52

I definitely don't want more. I did begin to wonder how the evening would end, and was a little surprised, but it was a relief that it ended quickly!

Us being together would mess up all my (overlapping) friendship groups.

If it is true that you're not interested in anything at all other than friendship I'm surprised you're giving this so much headspace? Especially to the extent of asking for advice on a forum?

Say you had spend the weekend in the company of a group inc. a good female friend. One of the days she spoke to you constantly, the other she didn't focus on you as much as she was flirting with her male crush. Would you be on here asking why she chose to flirt with her male crush over spending time with you?

If you genuinely see this as platonic between you & him then it should be no different

Original poster
KnowtheBand · 30/08/2022 14:43

LemonDrop22 · 30/08/2022 14:35

As for wanting to be with me if he wants to be...not if I don't want to be with him he won't. But I don't think he does want to be with me, nor doninwant him to.

No offence but why did you feel the need to start a MN thread about him?

If you're that indifferent, I'm not sure why you'd even bother.

Because I had a good weekend with a slightly unusual end to a fairly highly charged evening and it made me think.

Until this weekend I hadn't seen him for about 6 weeks and I promise had barely thought of him at all.

Also, sorry drip feed, but OP was long enough, I'm due to go on holiday with him and others, but not lovely young woman, twice in October (long weekends) and I suppose this weekend made me think about the slightly changing dynamic ahead of those weekends.

OP posts:
Original poster
KnowtheBand · 30/08/2022 14:47

essex956 · 30/08/2022 14:43

If it is true that you're not interested in anything at all other than friendship I'm surprised you're giving this so much headspace? Especially to the extent of asking for advice on a forum?

Say you had spend the weekend in the company of a group inc. a good female friend. One of the days she spoke to you constantly, the other she didn't focus on you as much as she was flirting with her male crush. Would you be on here asking why she chose to flirt with her male crush over spending time with you?

If you genuinely see this as platonic between you & him then it should be no different

Show quote history

I guess that's probably it. No one would have told us we made a lovely couple and we probably wouldn't have walked back to the station hand just hand.

I am happy that our freidnship isn't going anywhere else, but I'm not sure that evening was platonic. I wouldn't have been happy if DH behaved like that with another woman for example, but as we're both single, no harm done iyswim.

It is a slightly usual situation though and I'm in the last few days of the long summer holiday so I have plenty of time for pondering

OP posts:
Sandra1984 · 30/08/2022 14:50

Forget about logistics and what’s going through his mind. Do you like this man? Do you have a crush on him? Would you want to get romantically involved?

Original poster
KnowtheBand · 30/08/2022 14:51

TBH, I suspect te gossipmill may be going and I'm half expecting friends who were there to "warn" me about things, but it hasn't happened yet.

Whether that's because they're not really interested enough to be talking about it or because they're not telling me, I don't know 😆

OP posts: