I can't believe it's taken me this long to work out - I'm sure my mum has NPD

[Knotnowdear]

She was always very critical of me as a child and didn't show too much interest in me, preferring men. She moved a "lodger" who was actually a boyfriend into our family home when I was around 11 and proceeded to play Dad off against him.

I moved out at 18 and pretty much stayed low contact, she never reached out to me. I did an experiment once, that was to see how long it would be before she contacted me - no arguments, I was quite dutiful, albeit frustrated by the random man in my house, and it was 5 years. I subsequently moved overseas and have been gone for more than 25 years.

I'm back in the UK now and she has been ill after quite a large operation, so I've just spent the last 3 months supporting her in her home. For this I had to leave DD behind during her A levels (DD is close to 20 due to our relocation so not as bad as this may sound). It's been an absolute nightmare. I work a 10-12 hour day running a large global team and support DD on my own financially.

She spent the whole time criticizing me. I wasn't available to her, I was rubbish at looking after her garden, the food wasn't good enough, I'm terrible with men (her obsession), she was too worried to ask me for something during the day, the bed isn't made correctly, the hallway needed hoovering, I was over-watering/under-watering - it was relentless. I was trying to run two houses, DD remotely and my day job and rushing out between Zooms to offer her water, run to grab prescriptions, dash to M&S during "lunch", make home made food etc and it was incredibly stressful. The slightest twinge involved me taking her to the doctor for a 1-2 hour round trip during the working day and they would without fail say there was nothing wrong.

After 3 months I set up a team of carers to visit her every day at a not inconsiderable cost. Her sister is there with her now for a week - able to give her attention all day - and all of a sudden she can open the dishwasher, can walk her dog, is eating, feels she is getting better and "what on earth are those carers going to do every day". I feel literally murderous. She made a good number of tinkly laugh jabs about how shit I was while I was up there this evening while lapping up all the attention her sister can devote to her.

Also, while I was up there I did another little test - I mentioned I was getting chest pains, which I am. She completely dismissed it and hasn't mentioned it since. I need to get to the GP.

Oh and she's only got photos of Dad, "Lodger" and the most recent boyfriend up. yes, the one she met at "Lodgers" funeral. She's 79 and these three months have been the longest I've been with her since I was 18.

Thoughts? NPD or just somebody difficult?

To me NPD is simply the trend of what we are calling assh*les now. Your mother sounds dreadful. I'm sorry you feel you have to upend your life to take care of her but I admire you for it. I'm afraid I would just tell her to sod off and let her find someone else to take care of her.

Thank you. I think it was her need for attention that I couldn't give her and her miraculous u-turn (after flogging me daily) as soon as somebody turned up who gave her that attention. Similarly with the men. She's only interested in me now that they've died, but I don't give her what she wants, so she's highly critical. We had lots of weeping and histrionics too. Shaky hands and small, baby voice. Tonight (I've been gone a day) she's all tinkly laughs and "oh we achieved so much". She literally couldn't walk into the kitchen 2 days ago and today she managed a lap around M&S.

Well there is a crossover between assholes and NPD for sure. NPD is a psychiatric term of course. I myself think there are lower level, middle level and upper level narcissists. I think the upper levels are NPD territory. The middle and upper level - there is clearly something g wrong with them and they are damaging to be around. Lower level narcissists are more common I think and just come across as self-obsessed.

I think when you look up the traits of upper level narcissism or full blown narcissism, they are kind of distinct.

Anyway, unless there’s something in it for you OP I would quietly disengage from this awful sounding woman. Go back to your home. Back to your daughter. Not spend another penny on her either. Why did you do it?

I'm not surprised you're feeling murderous. My MIL was similar - endlessly self centred, nothing was ever good enough, self pitying, snide and manipulative. It's bloody draining to be around, and really hurtful to be treated like this by a parent

No one can diagnose your mother with anything over the internet. However, I would say that it doesn't really matter whether she has NPD or is just plain nasty. What matters is the impact on you, and her behaviour is hurting you and maybe even doing you emotional harm. Lord knows you have tried, and done so much for her. It's all been thrown back in your face. Please start focusing on your own health. I know how much this hurts, but nothing you ever do for her will be good enough, and you're not going to get what you need from her x

I don’t know if she’s a narcissist OP, but the love of male attention beyond the norm is always a bit of a flag I think!

You know you need to disengage from this. Physically or mentally, depending on what you need to do for your own sanity. She is not going to change..she classes you as her enabler so she will do anything to keep you in that position.. for everyone else she is a performer. Up to you but if you don’t have your own firm boundaries and strictly enforce them, you are heading for a nightmare. because she absolutely will tell everyone you are awful if you back off and you need to be prepared for that. I feel for you op, but you need to make sure you look after yourself

Thank you and yes, I agree. Oxygen mask on first. The reason I asked is because I lurched from her into a number of similar relationships where I was belittled and abused constantly but didn't really see the red flags as it was so normal to me. I'm out now though and until this point was doing quite well!

It seems like the penny has dropped. Because I'd been away for so long and left her at 18, I didn't really put two and two together.

I need to work out to do. I've been doing dutiful daughter and I'm not sure if the rest of the family don't consider me a monster for "abandoning her". But it was for a reason. I really don't know if they see what I see. She can be very charming. She was literally fizzing with excitement when she got 30 mins with her favourite (male) doctor this week.

Oh well, if she likes her sister being there so much and found fault with everything you did, then her sister's got the job.

You know what OP, frankly who cares what the hell is wrong with her. Some of your post i recognise in my own mother and frankly it's just exhausting. You can either let her suck the life out of you or you can set your boundaries as to what you will tolerate and let her get on with it. she just wants people at her beck and call. Don't play her game to the detriment of you and your daughter.

Who gives a shit what the family think, they’ll think what they want, nothing you do will be good enough for her or them as they’ll be similar in their behaviour, it’s like a disease, they will also want you onside so they don’t have to deal with her shit. Huge mistake there getting back in touch after all this time, these people never change, quickly plan your escape out of there, you know you can’t continue like this.

Well thank you. You've all been more than clear.

Boundaries have been put in place - I'm back with DD and there are carers going in every day. If she doesn't want them then I will cancel them and put the money to better use.

I suspect when her sister goes back on Sunday we will be back to the "woe is me". I've put something in place for her that nobody else has and I've been the one supporting her for the last 3 months so I think I'm going to be firm.

I appreciate all of your insights. It's so obvious isn't it but I find it so difficult. I'm much better at work but then I guess there are guardrails there that you don't have with family.

I'm sorry you've never had a good relationship with your Mum, it sucks doesn't it?

Can you have an honest conversation with your Aunt or do you think she would blindly be on your Mum's "side".

Wait ... you're not paying for the carers - are you?

You need to reassess what’s happening with your mum, including what you’re financing.

"It's so obvious isn't it but I find it so difficult" - its not obvious when you are in the midst of it. I hope this will proceed in a way that is healthy for you.

Yes I'm paying for the carers and all she's done is criticise. She keeps asking what they are going to do - but I've asked them to do what I was doing!

She was acting like she couldn't do a thing so I booked them all in at let's call it a lot per month - and now she's miraculously able to do everything while her sister is there.

Literally about 3 days ago I had to escort her to the GP, - 5m from the disabled parking spot to a chair closest to the door, supporting her, and now she's gadding around M&S, walking around a park and getting her hair done tomorrow.

I think she's playing me like a fiddle. I know this is because her sister is giving her a lot of encouragement but I'm literally doing my best while I'm working full time.

You don’t need a label, your Mum treats you like shit. Disengage. You owe nobody an explanation.

She sounds exactly like my stepmum. The thing I've learned is that people like this will always find someone to look after them, and they will consistently drop and pick up people based on whether there's something better on the horizon. Its very hurtful when youre dropped in favour of someone new (who generally is more amenable as they dont yet know the truth). So I now stay firmly but politely at a distance, ready to help if the shit hits the fan but no more. Its helped me enormously to realise that she will always land on her feet. Narcissists can be very charming and they are masters at getting round people. So if I were you I wouldn't worry too much about her. Amd as for the family - well they will learn the hard way if they get sucked in!

So she had an affair with the lover being under her roof as a 'Lodger'? My mother was definitely grandiose, narcissistic and voracious for male attention. She had her 18 year old lover live in our house along with my alcoholic stepfather (3rd husband) for half the year and holidays. Their affair continued from when I was 12 til 22. It, inter alia, really messed up her four daughters. You have my sympathies.

A sick/convalescing narcissist is soul destroying.

Narcissism is very common,
Most people aren’t diagnosed as they don’t think there’s anything wrong with them, you don’t get diagnosed based on how you make overs feel
I’d recommend Dr Ramanis YouTube channel https://youtube.com/c/DoctorRamani

Flipping hell. You are me five years ago! This is the strangest thing. I don't want to post my life history but the back story about the lodger, how difficult your mother has been, it's oddly familiar (are you my sister?) . I also took care of my mum after an operation , and it was the most soul destroying and miserable time of my life. My mum is a person that when she is well she soaks the life out of you like a leech, you don't notice until it's too late. When she's ill she rips you to shreds just for some sheer distraction to her miserable existence. Once you see what it is, you can't unsee it.

I read all the books, covert narcissism to the bone (or so I decided 😀), everything fitted. Triangulation was constant, gas lighting was mind-numbing, and the nasty, nasty things she did with a little tight smile and a slight flash of anger. Always deniable though, always making you a little unsure of your footing. She did a good job on keeping me in place, she had me working very hard for the littlest bit of attention, I can laugh now but for a while... not so much. She was physically abusive when I was a child as well.

You have a daughter so you know what the relationship is supposed to be, that helps. I would not pay for my mothers care for anything, so you are a better person than I am.

Now I am not bothered about labels, unconcerned about being the perfect daughter to the cruel mother. I am absolutely judged for it, but I learned not to care. You have a choice, dutiful daughter who looks the part? Or being honest about yourself and taking a step back.

Apart from the men, and the fact mine is dead, we could have the same mother. The horrid laugh while criticising, the poor me act, no one could ever be ill apart from her…. ugh, I remember it well.
Cancel the carers, just say I’m so glad you don’t need them any more, you’re doing so well with Auntie there. Then disengage. Ignore any other relatives. If they’re bothered they can look after her.
If your DD is planning to go to Uni could you “have” to move house far, far away?

'Cancel the carers, just say I’m so glad you don’t need them any more, you’re doing so well with Auntie there. Then disengage'

I would do this too, absolutely. Paying for carers, for someone who is manipulating and gaslighting you, is madness