She didn't know she was the OW- really?

[PawsAndReflection]

I want to preface this with the fact that I absolutely do not condone the affair, and it has fundamentally changed our friendship to the point that I don't know if we can continue to be in each other's lives. That's not in question in the slightest.

A very close friend I has was in a relationship with a married man from 2017 to 2021, at which point she broke it off. He had been married for 10 years, with two children, and is very much the 'lad' type- obsessed with the gym, going out etc. My friend is 32 now (27 when they met) and he is 47.

As far as she's told me, and I appreciate she may not be 100% truthful about all aspects of this relationship, he had given the impression that him and his wife were separated when they met and she didn't find out the truth until 2020 at which point they took a 6 month break. They only resumed after his friends 'confirmed' he'd told his wife and they'd started with divorce proceedings.

They broke up because (among other things) he had gradually come more and more controlling, and she decided she wanted time on her own. She's since met a wonderful man who knows all
of this and hasn't spoken to MM (married man) since breaking it off.

Last weekend she discovered he was 1) still married and 2) his wife had no idea of the entire debacle. She found out because MM had been drunkenly texting her and she saw his profile picture on WhatsApp was a wedding shot.

I was with her at the time and told her just to block and delete but she took it upon herself to message his wife and tell her everything. Screenshots, photos, emails. The whole caboodle.

I can't decide if what she's done is right- I feel at my core that it is but there's a part of me that thinks she must have known! The wife has been in touch a lot asking for details, which my friend has provided.

I just don't know if she's better off cutting this whole situation off. And if I'm being an idiot for even believing this.

That poor wife. Well, at least she knows now. She might have been spending years thinking that something wasn't right and suspecting him of cheating, and either hid those feelings or spoke to him about it and was told she was being ridiculous/crazy.

"She's since met a wonderful man"

Hope your brother lives up to this since she's obviously a poor judge of character when it comes to men

Say it louder for those at the back

Four years. Read that again, four years. Missing birthdays, Christmas, not meeting his family. Anyone who thinks the friend isn't a liar is deluded or naive.

The friend just happened to get a message while with the OP? Yeah right. And the MM 'forgot' his profile picture was his wedding shot? Oh please.

The 'friend' got caught messaging the MM while with her new bf's sister and that's the only reason she told the wife. She got caught out. I wouldn't trust her as far as I could throw her.

It’s not uncommon. There are a lot of married men that turn up on dating apps, who come armed with plenty of excuses to explain away anything suspicious.

there’s also the fact that when feeling are involved, and they can develop quickly, people often don’t want to see what is obvious to anyone on the outside looking in. They’ll believe obvious lies about working away, high pressure jobs, etc…because they want to, because it’s easier to believe that than it is to confront a painful reality. People have a great capacity for deluding themselves.

be careful in how you proceed. Your brother presumably knows this about her, has accepted it, and wants to be with her anyway. That’s his right as a grown man capable of making his own decisions. If you try to interfere he’s unlikely to thank you, and you could very easily end up alienating them both.

You’re assuming that he did in fact miss all these things, rather than split them. He could easily have lied to his wife about having to work away over Christmas every other year for example.

Looks like his friends were in on it too. If they’re happy to lie to the mistress why wouldn’t they lie to the wife? It would be very easy for him to claim he needs to go away for a few nights to support his mate having a hard time, especially when said mate is there backing his story up.

I think you need to mind your own business.

Seriously.

She’s given you explanations, not that she needs to. But whether she had an inkling or not (and the fact she’s just told the wife all in a dramatic fashion indicates not), interfering in your brother’s love life is wrong.

Now go and focus on your own life.

All of this.

In any case, your brother's relationship is nothing to do with you. Presumably he's a grown man.

A relative of mine was in a long term relationship with a man who turned out to be married. She had no idea.

These men are manipulative liars - its hardly surprising they are able to pull this off.

I feel sorry for your friend.

A relative of mine thought she was dating a WFH widower with two very young children for two years.

She was a frequent visitor to the family home, slept in the guy's bed in the main bedroom, sometimes picked up the children from nursery after their half day there, went on little holidays with him and the children, bought little toys and books for them, trained a new puppy... She did a good deal of soul searching about the prospect of being a step mother and decided she was ready.

One morning she was enjoying a cuppa in the kitchen when the wife walked in with her suitcase. She had been able to get a flight home from New York a day earlier than expected and wanted to surprise the family.

It was a day of many surprises.

The wife worked away quite a lot, it turned out. The man was a sahd, not a self employed graphic designer. The nursery had been told my relative was a nanny. The main bedroom turned out to be the spare bedroom, fitted with a queen size bed. The actual main bedroom suite occupied the entire attic space, which was always locked, and described as 'the attic'.

Relative recovered from the shock of it all after a couple of years. Wife and bloke still together. Children none the wiser AFAIK. They were very young when this all happened.

Wow. What a shock 😲

With regard to birthdays, the "other woman's" birthday is a random date to the wife. Unless the two women had the same birthday the MM wouldn't leave the clue of missing her birthday every year.

I had a boyfriend for four years and he spent Xmas with his dad and I spent it with my kids.
It's not proof a man is married.

I was the OW for nearly two years without knowing. Genuinely no signs whatsoever that he was with someone else. He would happily leave his phone all over the place and always available to meet up or stay over so it is entirely possible that she had no idea.

I still think about the situation five years later, the guilt absolutely ate me alive at the time, I was an absolute state so god knows how his wife felt, poor woman.

I think you should give her the benefit of the doubt on this one but if I'm being completely honest you don't sound like that great of a friend to her, maybe time to end the friendship.

Lots of posters saying men can fool women for years but surely rule number one is if they don't want you to meet parents and siblings that should ring alarm bells. Or are you saying they were in on it too? Or explained them all away as dead? Women really need to be more careful with this stuff and thank their lucky stars these guys were just married and not something far more sinister.

If she knew he was married surely she would have told the wife way back when they broke up. Not now. No. It's sounds more like the believed him and how that she has seen evidence that he is still married she has come forth and spilled the beans.

I got a phone call, my then longstanding boyfriend was having a relationship with another woman for 18 months I had no idea. She only found out because my car was parked outside his house one night. Found out later he was also seeing his now wife as well. Neither of us knew this at the time either. Some men are just great liars.

@Windypants21 I'm genuinely interested to know how these men deal with you wanting to meet their parents etc?

I was the one in the long term relationship with him. So I knew his family well, including parents. Don't know how he handled the others can only assume he didn't bring them to his home. I do think his sister knew though but she was loyal to him so she wasn't going to let the cat out of the bag. From what I know his now wife and sister don't get on, so I hope there's a bit of karma there. I got on with them all. This is a very superficial account of all the ins and outs of the whole story, just the gist of it. Oftentimes you don't realise the meaning of small things that were said or done at the time but later when it all comes out what the reason behind it was. Eg I lived in a city about an hour away and would normally come home at the weekend, a small town. Occasionally I would pop home at short notice due to work reasons. So I started getting text messages , 'where you at windypants ?' I thought he was lookjng to see whether i was home, walking the dog, out with friends or whatever but he was obviously checking to make sure I didnt just turn up and catch him in the act. Hope this makes sense.

Oh I see @Windypants21 yes I understand it from the point of view of the partner and how it's hard to see the signs but I don't get how someone who is in a 4 year relationship and is the OW explains away not seeing his family. We all know men's friends can lie but it would be something else for parents to be in on it too!

I used to think he had conned his now wife with lies, in much the same way he conned me with them, and as much as he did con her somewhat, I've come to realise she wanted him no matter lies and all. After all he was seeing 3 of us at the same time.

A friend of mine knows the third woman in this ( the one who saw my car parked outside his house) and my friend says she wouldnt be surprised if she knew about me all along and carried on regardless. So maybe he wasnt put in the position of taking them home to the family because they knew ??

His family had no loyalty to me at all. Good at asking for and expecting help , not so good at reciprocating. Lovely bunch. Well rid. 👿

She’s going out with her brother now, he wasn’t the married man.

@Windypants21 I see what you mean. They didn't ask because they didn't want to know! Thank gawd you're out of it!

Absolutely! It has left its scars but much better out of it Thanks. 🙂

This. Maybe doesn't want the guy, but she is angry at him. She 'knew' in 2020, and didn't bother telling the wife then. Just took a break then went back to him. Only left when it suited her. She knew the whole time even if she ignored it. She's capable of that, I wouldn't want her with my brother either. Probably cheat on him.

Some women will claim they never knew. I know one woman who claimed she never knew, especially when the wife confronted her at her work. But she knew, and went on to cheat on others too. These kind of people don't tend to change, it's not common at least.