Mother/daughter relationship. Perspective please.

[Stripypopsicle]

I have name changed for this incase anyone I know linked it to my other posts, but I could really use some perspective on this please.

Having recently been on the narcissistic mothers thread, the more I saw, the more I felt that I could possibly see my own mother in some of people’s descriptions. But then I think maybe I am over stretching and seeing things that are not there.

I feel so guilty even writing this, I’m not sure I’m going to be brave enough to actually post it but I could really use an outside perspective.

I love my mum and she has a lot of good qualities, everyone thinks she is wonderful
And how lucky I am to have her as my mum, but I feel there is also a side to her that only I see and experience (hence why I wonder if my perspective is off and I’m imagining it.)

I have spent ages writing something out but it feels so disloyal and disrespectful to post it, so I have deleted a lot of it and will try and post something smaller below.

Nothing is every good enough for her and I always feel like I have disappointed her or let her down somehow. For as long as I can remember I have always sought the approval of my mother and even though nothing was/ is ever deemed good enough, I cannot seem to get out of this mindset of wanting her approval and validation. She will offer a compliment, but that will always be coupled with a criticism.

She doesn’t seem to ever like it when I am in a relationship. She says I don’t give her enough time, don’t want to share details
with her and unless I can date someone who will enhance the family, then I shouldn’t be with them.

I spend everyday feeling incredibly guilty that I don’t do enough for her and am made to feel her requests are perfectly reasonable and saying no makes me a horrible person. She will often cry and point out all she has done for me and that she’s not asking for much by asking me to do x,y and z.

As a child, materialistically, I had everything I ever wanted, but now seeing it as an adult, I feel like the emotional side of it wasn’t there in the same way, particularly once I was a teenager.

Appearance means a lot to her. We were always told that things were to remain inside the family and not be discussed outside of it. Led to believe that we would be gossiped about etc so I never trusted anyone with anything. This meant I never confided anything in my friends and even now as an adult (mid 30s) I still struggle in friendships beyond a surface level as I don’t feel able to share anything that’s personal and don’t feel I could trust anyone as there is an ingrained fear that it will be used against me or gossiped about. I’ll only share things that wouldn’t be able to hurt me if they were used against me.

When there was some huge family issues going on at home when I was a teenager, I struggled with them alone as we were explicitly told not to tell anyone. We were told what we were ‘allowed’ to say if asked, and had to stick to this for the good of the family.

Physical Appearance is very important to her. As children, we were always immaculately presented and would not be allowed to leave the house if we did not look perfect (even if it meant changing our outfit in the middle of the day).

I am sadly failing my mum and feel totally inadequate because I am overweight. This is not acceptable to her.

She will tell me she woke in the night and couldn’t get back to sleep because she was worrying about my weight and the effects on my health.

Every time she sees me she wants to talk about my weight and asks if I am planning to lose weight/started a diet and wants to know whether I’ve eaten any ‘bad’ foods and if I’ve messed up the chance to lose weight that day etc. my self-esteem has been rock bottom for a long time, and this doesn’t help. This will also be coupled with comments such as ‘you’d have a nice figure if you lost weight’ and ‘you could be really pretty if you lost the fat.’

I am gay, and when I came out to her, it didn’t go well. At first she said it was just because I hadn’t met the right man, and that if I lose weight men would fancy me. I had to fight my corner and explain I didn’t fancy men. She was upset that I wasn’t going to have the life she wanted for me (husband and kids) and when I pointed out I was still planning to have marriage and children, she gave me many examples of how difficult my life would be as a gay woman. She did eventually accept it but I still feel like I’ve failed her somehow.

Whenever I see a tv show where someone comes out to their parents and it’s accepted with unconditional love and acceptable, it always makes me cry. I wish I had that.

I have sought therapy in the past about my low self esteem and confidence, and when she heard I was going to therapy she wanted to know if I’d be talking about her and if so, what I was saying.

Therapy didn’t help and I stopped. I wasn’t sure if this was just because she was the wrong therapist or because we never got to the root of the issue (I never thought any of it could be linked to my mum until now).

I know I need some therapy. What I don’t know is what I need.

Sorry for this long ramble, if you reached the bottom, I appreciate it and would welcome your thoughts.

Yes your mum is emotionally abusive and manipulative to say the least. None of that is healthy or normal. I would recommend psychodynamic therapy and please don’t be afraid to talk about her.

Your mum was your 'normal' so you haven't really questioned it before.

You saw other people's coming out stories, and yours didn't match.

Your mum's parenting is all about her- you are supposed to be how she thinks you are, to reflect well on her, to contribute to her story.
There's nothing in there about what you want, who you are. Hence she struggled when you went off message and said you are gay.

You haven't really asked a question, so I'm not sure how to respond. I've just picked up a couple of things I noticed.

I'd say your mum didn't nurture you, as such, she simply raised you to fulfil the category of 'had a family'.
What's your dad like? Mine enabled her horribly, at our expense.

You may well struggle to work out what you want and to prioritise your own needs, because you were brought up to prioritise her.

It's a life time's work with a therapist

Something else that just came to mind. I have some hearing loss in one ear which means if you’re not in the same room as me, I won’t hear you properly. She will often talk to me from another room and then after I ask her to repeat it will just say “oh it doesn’t matter.” She knows about the hearing loss but it’s like she won’t accept it as it’s one more step away from her perfect vision. 🥺

Yes. I have a chronic condition and she's reluctant to take my limitations into account.

It's disappointing when you realise you don't have the mum you would have hoped for.
I take comfort in thinking that no one's perfect, she's just less perfect than most, and that I've learned a lot of people skills and self management skills from working around her.

The thing is- and this may not be true of your mum- mine's her own worst enemy. She makes herself as miserable as everyone else. She doesn't understand why. She thinks she's the victim of everyone else's unreasonableness. Infuriating.

It helps to live at a distance, if that's an option.

Also, look up grey rock. Basically you limit the information you share, and the opportunities you give her to upset you. It's the opposite of a close intimate relationship. You politely evade anything personal, in favour of encouraging her to talk about herself. Change the subject every time she gets close to something that matters. It takes a bit of practice, but is ultimately incredibly effective.

I’ve changed my name this morning because I may post about my mother, and then I saw your thread OP and it’s as though you are describing my mum.

i don’t have anything useful to add other than to say that you’re not alone and if you are near Cambridge I’d say come over and we can sit here in my garden and bitch about our mothers. The kids are with their dad and I’m doing paella, (and if my mother was here she’d say I’m cooking it wrong.)

Sending massive virtual support.

Ironically, I am fairly near to Cambridge! 😂

Im sorry you’re experiencing the similar with your mum. I did try to PM you but When I pressed it it gave me a list of people!

It's definitely your mum and you would benefit greatly from good therapy. I would encourage you to start this as soon as you can. It's time to free yourself from fear, guilt and obligation.

You might understand your mum better if you read a bit about narcissistic behaviour.

I would get ready to lose the relationship and see the positives in that. It's highly unlikely she will agree to having boundaries.

You have every right to share how you feel OP, your feelings and experiences are your own and yours to speak about as and when you wish. I can tell that even in your OP you are holding back a bit- years of being told not to share will do this to you, I understand. But it’s time to step away from a close relationship with this woman, because blood is not thicker than water and what she’s putting you through is not acceptable. I’m sorry you have to go through life with this. Please take a step back and try to re read your own thread and give yourself the advice you would a close friend. Life is far too short to let anyone treat you like this.
Sending you lots of love, you’re not at fault for her behaviour. Set yourself free.

There’s something odd going on with the pm thing - it’s just done the same to me!

Your mother has no right to know about your relationships, or anything else in your life. You have no obligation to pander to her wishes.
Cut back on the number of visits & calls and stop telling her personal stuff about your life - keep the conversation to the weather & the garden!
Remember, we are all responsible for our own happiness, nobody else - so it's absolutely not your job to make her happy.

Appearance means a lot to her. We were always told that things were to remain inside the family and not be discussed outside of it. Led to believe that we would be gossiped about etc so I never trusted anyone with anything. This meant I never confided anything in my friends and even now as an adult (mid 30s) I still struggle in friendships beyond a surface level as I don’t feel able to share anything that’s personal and don’t feel I could trust anyone as there is an ingrained fear that it will be used against me or gossiped about. I’ll only share things that wouldn’t be able to hurt me if they were used against me.

When there was some huge family issues going on at home when I was a teenager, I struggled with them alone as we were explicitly told not to tell anyone. We were told what we were ‘allowed’ to say if asked, and had to stick to this for the good of the family.

Op, sorry you are struggling with your mother. It sounds like she sees you as an extension of her rather than a person in your own right and she is being very unkind and unsupportive regarding your weight and sexual orientation. She is being very rude and I'd expect that low contact would be a good idea.

Regarding this:

We were always told that things were to remain inside the family and not be discussed outside of it.

Can I please ask the wise posters in this thread, is this really quite bad? My dc are under 10 and I do ask them not to discuss certain things with others, either half-baked plans or some other private stuff. I suppose I should stop asking them to be discrete? It's awful, OP, that you have never been able to trust others and kept your worries to yourself. So my question is, (without derailing pls) is asking your kids to be discrete about some family stuff abusive and controlling?

@Stripypopsicle Yep, your mum is narcissistic seeing you as an extension of herself rather than a person in your own right. You need to assert boundaries. If she makes a comment about your weight say I didn't ask for advice or comments and would appreciate you keeping your thoughts to yourself because I'm not interested in hearing them. Then stick to it rigidly. Repeat it every time until it gets through. If she continues say you'll have to stop seeing her because she is so rude in making such personal comments.

@WindowLady So my question is, (without derailing pls) is asking your kids to be discrete about some family stuff abusive and controlling?
There's a difference between being discreet and keeping secrets. T
I suppose if you feel it's for your benefit rather than theirs then you might want to question what you are asking them to keep secret.

Yes strict boundaries. My mother does the silent treatment if things dont go her way. Exhausting. I agree keep chat vague.

It’s helpful to read that I’m not seeing something that’s not there.

I think she maybe also encourages emotional co-dependence in some ways. Not sure if that’s the right way to describe it or not!

Hiya OP
I am so sorry you are going through this but you are so not alone.Not that this fact will make you feel any better at all but if you just pop over to the AIBU section and look for the thread titled Quotes your narsassisti mother would say,you will find many and I genuinely mean many people,myself included who share so much in common with you,Read the stories you will see and gain so much insight, I found it very cathartic and I felt so not alone,Head on over and check it out,it might be there you find some answers to help you, They aren;t all vipers over there I promise you!

Your post is not disloyal. It’s honest and well written, and looks like many of us can relate to the behaviours described.

I think someone needs to go on a diet here - her. An information diet. She can’t pick at and criticise facts about you that she doesn’t know.

I learned ‘why would you ask that?’ for every weird, inappropriate or intrusive question. It may help with managing interactions.

Something else I thought of.. not sure if this one counts or not, but when at her house she has asked me not to sit on certain bits of furniture as they have a weight limit that I might exceed.

Omg, she’s a right bloody charmer, isn’t she? Even if you were a international supermodel, you would not live up to her impossible standards. She will always find imperfections because she is built that way. What was her childhood like?

I find telling my DM few details and keeping her at a distance helps massively. Yours is manipulating you, the crying is typical of emotional manipulation. If you can, pull back, don’t contact her so much, don’t tell her so many details. Moving 5 hours away is VERY helpful!

@Stripypopsicle My maternal mother used to be like that. She constantly criticized me for so many things I lost count. She raised me for 4 years and managed to break my spirit so badly that it took years to recover. (I still am)
Later, I moved back with my parents and I managed to survive by distancing myself from her and by fighting back. Whenever she said something awfull, I would answer back even as an adult( I know It sound terrible, but I had to fight for myself).

You need to fight for yourself too! Put a distance between the two of you, answer back if she gets on your nerves and don't share anything personal anymore. Even if she your mother, you don't owe her putting up with her appaling behaviour.

What a bitch! Pathetic woman.

You can really only feel sorry for her, go low, low contact. Don't share anything with her, if you have to speak with her, be patronising back.

Mother: Don't sit on that chair, it's got a weight limit
You: Oh really? That's unusual. Is it not very good quality? (faux friendly voice, with a sceptical head tilt)

Mother: oh it doesn’t matter.
You: No worries, if it does matter, make sure you speak loud and clearly. It's best if we are in the same room too, you do remember that I have a hearing issues, don't you mother? (slow and deliberate as if explaining to someone who isn't too bright)

Mother: You could be really pretty if you lost the fat.
You: Oh mother, you must be so insecure to be thinking that. For that it's worth, I'm happy with myself and luckily I don't need to be attractive to you (tinkly laugh)

She sounds awful, your mother. Take big steps away, onward and up. It can be done but do not let that witch hold you back or emotionally abuse you.

Is there a dad in the picture?

my Dad died, but he was worse than her!

Thank you for the examples of what to say, they really help ☺️

*maternal grandmother😅

I’ve called her out on a couple of things the last few days, and she’s not happy. Says that I’m taking out my anger and frustration on her and did I think that perhaps if I wasn’t so fat I might be less irritable and nicer to her?

She's putting any issues in your relationship back on to you and not accepting any responsibility.