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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Toxic or abuse?

26 replies

Fairyhair · 13/08/2022 09:32

Sorry if this is long. I'm so confused.

I have been married for about 15 years and have 2 boys, 8 and 13 years old. I don't like my husbsnds attitude and we have grown apart with little on common. Thing is, I don't know if it's an abusive relationship, or just lacking in respect (likely mutual)

Since meeting I have trained as a nurse, become a mother, travelled around Australia....I feel I have evolved a lot.

I have always worked full time, even since the boys came along. Thinking the cost of childcare outweighs what my husband could earn. I earn well above minimum wage and have been led to believe more than what he could earn as a plumber (his trade) He hatches the odd scheme, "goes into small business" with his family, they argue, he tells them they all know nothing and are cluelesd and that's the end of that. I've never known him hold have a consistsnt a full time job. He doesn't want to work for anybody else, needs to do his own thing and claims I hold him back with my jealousy?

He often argues with family, tells his family they are wrong, stupid, idiots etc. He'll call his parents and moan about his sister, being quite derogatory and swearing. Jusg tonight he called her a f*** wench and wished her dead. He always knows better than everyone else and will say so.

When I question him or get angry or upset he has asked me if I have ever been sectioned as I'm crazy, it was a genuine question too, he meant it.

For years I have begged for attention and affection, but he says I have to earn it. We have been intimate once in the last year as I don't feel able to without feeling wanted/receiving affection. He has called me frigid on more than one occasion.

His default setting is shouting. If the boys do the slightest thing wrong he shouts and has called them stupid. As far as I know he has never layed hands on them, and I honestly don't think he would. I think my youngest gets scared when he shouts though.
He has slammed things about and kicked bins, cupboards etc in the past.

I have asked him to leave a few times, he refuses. He says nobody else would ever put up with me and the kids will see me for who I am. He says I risk losing them.

In the past he has spoken to women on the internet, but never anything physical, as far as I know. He has goaded me to hit him, saying he can see in my eyes that I want to.

His attitude is that he doesn't need friends, and I think he's likely very unhappy in himself. But he believes everyone is jealous of him.

He rarely does things with kids, he never goes anywhere and gets up at 10 or later on my days off work.
I can't stand him touching me, and believe we're pretty much dead in the water. I've been told by friends I'm a mug for putting up with him.

He shouts about family in front of the kids when he visits his parents and I'm in no doubt I'll be on the receiving end of this if I end it. He'll poison the kids against me.

As I've been looking at separation I've noted that our savings are in his name only (I'm the earner) and our cars are in his mums name. Very naive and silly of me, I know.

We havent had a blazing row for a while , likely because I stopped caring. So, as far as he's concerned we're all fine and he's been pleasant.

Whilst I understand he may be frustrated, this can't be normal attitude to life? There is an obvious lack of respect, but is this abusive? He says not

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 13/08/2022 09:59

Did you meet this man when you were very young (say late teens/early 20s) and had no real life experience behind you?. Were you in a low place emotionally when you met?.

The only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is none. Remember this always and teach your kids the same.

Of course your husband will say he is not abusive. But he absolutely is. What sort of man too uses the kids here in saying that they will see you for who you really are and that you could lose them?. An abusive man, and one who is not above making threats. Such men too use the children readily like this to reassert power and control and because they know its the woman's achilles heel. BTW he is not interested in his children and would likely not even do anything close to 50/50 because they would interfere with his free time.

"I have asked him to leave a few times, he refuses"

Such abusive men always but always refuse to leave. Of course he refuses to leave; you bring money in and do everything around the house so he does not want to lose his personal money tree/slave/house elf/cook/cleaner etc. If you left he would then have to put the work in to find another sap of a woman (he really thinks you are a sap, such men too hate women and ALL of them) to clean up after him. And he's far too entitled and lazy to do that.

What do you think your children are learning about relationships from you two?. Would you want them to behave as their dad does towards their partner or wife as adults?. NO you would not but you're showing them that currently at least, this treatment of you is still acceptable to you on some level. You have a choice re this man, they do not. Show them, particularly your eldest child here, better relationship lessons than the ones you are imparting to them now.

I would also think his sons too have learnt as have you to tiptoe around him as well so as to try and not set him off. However, their dad is volatile and anything can and indeed does set him off. What are they going to remember about their childhoods here?.

I would contact Womens Aid and the Rights of Women organisations rightsofwomen.org.uk/ if you are in the UK; the latter here can give some legal advice.

You and he should no longer be together and your marriage is over anyway because of the abuse. You are married to this man and thus have rights in law; exercise those fully. Discuss all aspects of separation and divorce with a Solicitor and firm up plans to leave this individual. He won't make any aspect of you leaving him at all easy because he will want to cling onto vestiges of power and control. But the freedom you will all feel will be worth it in the long run.

Sapphirensteel · 13/08/2022 09:59

For years I have begged for attention and affection, but he says I have to earn it.
In the past he has spoken to women on the internet, but never anything physical, as far as I know. He has goaded me to hit him, saying he can see in my eyes that I want to.

Ive just picked out 2 awful things, there are so many more.
I don’t think you have to give his behaviour labels to justify leaving him.
Are you happy being married to him?
Do you want to still live like this in 5 years time?
Do you want to be just him and you when the dc have left home?

If even one out of those is No then leave. You don’t have to justify your reasons to anyone. Your decision is enough.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 13/08/2022 10:03

OP

You only have to give your own self permission to leave him. How can you be further helped here into leaving your abuser?.

CloseYourEyesAndSee · 13/08/2022 10:05

Yes it's definitely abusive
you don't need his permission to separate.

category12 · 13/08/2022 10:08

If you're married, it shouldn't really matter legally whose name the savings are under. Practically speaking it might be worth trying to turn it into a joint (perhaps find a better deal on interest and persuade him that way). And certainly for you to stop putting money into it, if not.

The car you'll have to suck up.

GiselleRose · 13/08/2022 10:27

He sounds like a narcissist.

ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus · 13/08/2022 10:34

His default setting is shouting. If the boys do the slightest thing wrong he shouts and has called them stupid.

OP, if you won’t leave this abusive man for your own sake (which I think you should), will you please leave for the children’s sake. They should not have to live with this.

pastypirate · 13/08/2022 12:32

Abuse. Please leave

pastypirate · 13/08/2022 12:32

And stop wiping his arse.

Watchkeys · 13/08/2022 14:26

Whilst I understand he may be frustrated, this can't be normal attitude to life? There is an obvious lack of respect, but is this abusive? He says not

If he was right, and he's 'normal', do you think this would mean you should stay with him? If we all said 'He's normal', would you think you should just put up with feeling this bad? What do you think you would do if you were told, resoundingly, that his behaviour is normal?

(nobody will tell you that it is, he's clearly abusive, but I'm trying to get you to think about the reasoning you're using)

vaingina · 13/08/2022 14:45

Horrible man. Get planning. Let him shout and rage- what do you care? Make sure you say in front of your kids, ‘please do not shout or say vile things please” so they can see that his behaviour is wrong.

coffeeisthebest · 13/08/2022 15:34

Bloody hell. I have forgotten what your question is as I just keep wondering why are still with such an arsehole. Look at what you are exposing your children to...please leave. If not maybe you will end up under mental health services.

Fairyhair · 13/08/2022 18:02

Coffeeisthebest.....I'm a registered mental health nurse.
Thank you all. Some wise and Frank words x

OP posts:
Fairyhair · 13/08/2022 18:16

I just think I needed to hear this, to know I'm doing the right thing for my boys. Attila, brilliant answer! Thank you all. I have a legal session booked on Tuesday

OP posts:
coffeeisthebest · 13/08/2022 18:34

Ah, ok, I am glad to hear that is your profession. Good luck with walking away, you can already see he is a master of projection, and you are doing this as much for yourself as for your kids.

DivorcedAndDelighted · 14/08/2022 07:47

Fucking hell, that's awful. Please leave so your children don't grow up to think you'd is acceptable. Neither of you is happy.

I wonder why you are asking if it is abusive behaviour? I'm sure it IS, but "abuse" isn't a label that you need for it to be acceptable to end the relationship. Maybe I'm off-beam here, but it sounds like you have put up with so much without leaving, perhaps you think your own happiness isn't sufficient reason to break up the family? I felt that way once and, looking back, wish that people had been clear to me that we are not living in the dark ages, and you don't need violence or adultery to give you permission to call it a day. He sounds bloody awful and you deserve better, and your children need to know this isn't acceptable.
Sending you lots of Flowers and hoping that you can trust yourself enough to take this step.

Fairyhair · 15/08/2022 23:22

Divorcedanddelighted, you are correct. I believe my happiness comes after I have considered my children. But I'm starting to believe I should take the situation into my own hands. My eldest has begged that we don't go our seperate ways in the past, it was horrible to witness and has greatly effected my decision making to date.
Today I spoke with a mortgage advisor, I will be able to mortgage to buy him out, but my payments will double. I'll be very strapped for cash to say the least.
I am plucking up the courage to just tell him, but its going to be so unpleasant and I feel on edge before I even start. It's going to be messy.

OP posts:
InTheFridge · 16/08/2022 00:18

It will get messy. Short pain for long term gain.

You are doing the right thing. Good luck.

Fairyhair · 29/08/2022 18:17

Thanks all who gave commented. I got legal advice and I may be liable to pay spousal maintenance....on top of keeping his arse for years!
Last night I told him I was done. I was accused of having an affair (he truly believes it!) Saying the least I can do is be truthful with him, then asked me why I was being so evil.
Says he won't move out, won't let me buy him out and definately will not sell.
So stuck right now ..... !

OP posts:
KangarooKenny · 29/08/2022 18:20

File for divorce , he can’t oppose it, and put it in the hands of a solicitor.
Get as much money out of any joint accounts you can, and put it in your own account.

category12 · 29/08/2022 18:56

You're not stuck, you don't need his permission to divorce him and you'll be able to sort out what happens with the house & finances on the way.

He can certainly be awkward, but you can't really expect him to give up his mealticket without some resistance.

Fairyhair · 02/09/2022 07:55

Saying I was done came after I had a nasty horse riding accident on Friday, no sympathy pr help with the kids from him, as of course its all self inflicted. When I went to check the horses on Monday night he told me "f off to the horses, it's all you're good at, break your leg this time!" In front of our kids. I saw red this time (still in a lot of pain from Friday, not in a good place for his "banter") He insists it was a good luck/figure of speech.

Then Wednesday morning we had to take the kids out, I didn't wake him early enough for his liking and he hit the roof, despite me suggesting he may have set his own alarm. He hit me with all the classics.....

"We have both made mistakes in this marriage but I wouldn't have made mine (other women on internet) if you had been better.
You don't know how to be a good wife.
Look at all I've done for you, what have you ever done for me? (I work full time....he has been unemployed for years!)
Do you really think you're all that?
It takes someone heartless to do this (to the kids)
What gives you the right to say you're done, why can't I?
You think more of your friends than you do your family, maybe if you treated me like that I would be different.
Who is your other man, tell me, I deserve the truth"
I ask him not to do this in front of the kids (in the car) he says it's the only time he can, because I ignore him at all other time.

Then next thing, he wants to plan a family holiday for next year! What doesn't he understand here?!

OP posts:
category12 · 02/09/2022 08:34

He just thinks if he shouts you down and blames you enough, you'll pipe down and carry on as before.

To be fair, it's worked for him for years, right?

He'll start to understand when he gets the divorce papers.

Fairyhair · 02/09/2022 21:08

Category12 true, it has worked for years. My eldest made a comment about "being there for my family" earlier. Looks like my husband is getting to him, just as I guessed he would. I'm so deflated right now

OP posts:
DivorcedAndDelighted · 08/09/2022 11:09

@Fairyhair , I think what your children are learning here is very concerning. I have sons too, and my oldest has suggested, quite rightly, that I should have put my foot down earlier, and that being someone who is SO committed to marriage that you would never leave is a bad idea, because it enables or encourages bad behaviour. Your son is learning now how women should and can be treated. It's important that he sees you showing that your husband's behaviour is not acceptable, even if that is very hard for you. One of my younger sons has some "opinions" about how men are badly treated in divorce and, if I didn't have the support of older children who were looking at the situation with more life experience, I would find that more upsetting. You can't live your life for your children. Prioritising them does not mean that you have to do exactly what they want. They are children; they don't know what's good for you, or for them.

I wonder if the fact that you have horses makes this extra difficult too. I'm also from an animal family and used to have horses. The workload and commitment is so great, it does mean you have more practicalities to juggle, not to mention expense. I know one couple with many animals who really have stayed together for the animals because they couldn't work out how to care for them if they separated. Maybe this is one reason you haven't been ready yet, but it's so heartening to read that you really are getting there.