Is there shame in divorce these days?

[bunnytailbreakfast]

Hoping for some insight.

To give some background. DH welcomed twin girls in the world this time last year. They are our only children and it has been a challenging year, but they are our world.

However over the years it feels DH and I are just drifting further and further away. We bicker and argue over the silliest things. We seem to want different things for our future (both agree on wanting what's best for our girls)

It's getting to the point where things feel like there's no improving and this weekend he's going to go to his Mums for the weekend to give us some space.

If I'm honest I wonder if divorce/house sale and move might be easier when the girls are younger as opposed to when they're a little older and aware of what's happening...

I can't help feeling this dragging feeling in my head that there's a sense of shame/failure in divorce.

For context, I grew up with parents (catholic) who had a very volatile relationship. Despite being very obviously incompatible my Mum talked about divorce like it was something that people just didn't do and if they did then they had somehow let the family down. My Mum, unlike me, was financially dependent on my father which likely had a big bearing on this.

I just wonder what people think of divorce these days? I have lots of married friends yet only one couple who has started divorce proceedings so it seems difficult to gauge

My parents divorced when I was about 5, best thing they did! Even when it was frowned upon in the 70’s.

Im married 20 years and very few of my childrens friends have both parents at home.

Better happy than miserable.

hi

i dont think there is as much stigma around it these days tbh. I was brought up catholic too and the sanctity of marriage was impressed on me greatly. However these days i think there are less and less people who hold those beliefs hence less stigma attached to divorce. just my opinion anyways

Er, no! Just like a lot of things in life, marriage doesn't always turn out the way we hope. And if that's the case, you get divorced and move on! Just like if you got a new job and hated it.

Don't let shame (imagined shame at that!) Get in the way of having a happier existence.

I think in some communities there's still some stigma around it - these are usually religious communities and so it's no surprise that your Catholic background is a factor.

In wider society there really isn't - there's an acceptance that people can change and grow apart and that there are times when splitting up is best for everyone, especially if you can do it amicably. While my kids were growing up, my husband and I were among a very few couples who were still together (and that didn't last either as he became an alcoholic). It really wasn't a big deal. You and your husband need to talk and ideally if you're going to split, do it in an adult, amicable way. One co-parenting couple I know work better as friends and co-parents than they ever did when they were married.

Not shame, no but understandable to feel sense of failure. Most people i know make divorce into a succeess story if they do it in mid life or young.

My friend never married but split from her LTR father of her children, coparents beautifully, has new relationship, lost weight looks great so the failed relationship has given way to a better life.

You are asking the wrong question. It shouldn't be "is divorce frowned-upon", it should be "how can I save my marriage".
Lots of people get stressed after a birth. I should imagine that it is triple (at least!) after twins. Try to work your way through it.

No there's no shame (I'm divorced with 2 young children).

What I would say though is that your children are young, having young children esp in the first year puts a massive strain on a relationship. Let alone twins!!!
I would be looking into ways to communicate better, go to couples counseling etc.

I didn't consider my divorce a failure. It was a huge success. It gave me my life back.
Sod all the work at it nonsense. Marriage doesn't need work if the partners love and respect each other. My 2nd husband is brilliant. We don't need to work on anything. It just works.
OP no one will think less of you if you divorce unless they are narrow minded bigots.

I'm divorced and have no shame at all. Relief that I'm not sticking it out in a relationship that took years of my life and offered little in return (except a couple of wonderful kids) but certainly no shame.

You get one chance at life and you need to make the most of it

I am almost divorced (separated almost 5 years) and don't feel shame as such but I certainly won't be celebrating my divorce as some people do. I meant every word I said when I got married and I never saw divorce in my future (who does) and I am still very sad that my marriage didn't work out. Shame isn't the right word though, as my ex had an affair and broke my heart so there really wasn't any other way for me but maybe there is for you two and you could explore that first? As a pp has said, having young children is a killer and it's very difficult to keep hold of your relationship with each other in the middle of it all but I would certainly want to know i'd tried my best before throwing it in.

Divorce can absolutely be the best move for many people (me included in many ways) but it is also ugly (even when as amicable as possible), stressful, expensive and heartbreaking.

Echoing previous posters. However, you may find that some still pass comment. I sat at a wedding table last year while an older relative tutted over another family member leaving her husband and how 'the younger generation aren't prepared to work at it'. I separated from my husband 5 years ago so it was all a bit awkward. You do develop a thick skin and people do tend to ask lots of questions. I'm quite private and like to be in control of how much I share... and yet if people find out you're divorced they will ask all sorts of questions.

When I went for my initial solicitor appointment, one of the first things he said was not to see it as failing. I didn’t end my marriage lightly, I had tried to years to get things back on track but my STBXH had given up. It was quite tough, we are church goers and I worried about criticism..but actually people have been very understanding and supportive.
I would say in your circumstances don’t throw in the towel straight away. Having young kids puts a huge strain on your relationship. Have you considered marriage counselling?

I don’t think there is any “shame” in it as such, as a man people look at me differently when I say I’m divorced, with that kind of “ must have been your fault “, look in their eyes.
with the move to no fault divorce in the UK, I think hope more men will be brave enough to call quits on poor relationships, as most us just bury our head in the sand and pretend everything is okay.
im glad I divorced ( not at the time), and no regrets or shame about it.

I don't think there is shame in divorce but coparenting is hard, and personally I wish my marriage could have worked as I hate the complexity of coparenting and some of the negative impacts on my children/me.
For example exH new partner seems lovely and my kids adore her, but I irrationally dislike her because I don't like my children having another woman in that "mum" role. It's hard not to be childish about it.

Counselling would be a good idea if you still want to try to workthrough this. Also if you read, the book "too good to leave, too bad to stay" has some really good tips and also can help identify if you really would be better divorcing.

Thankyou all for such supportive words.

When the girls were a few weeks old I discovered DH had registered with an online escort agency. He swears he never went through with anything and was just looking. I trawled through everything and couldn't find evidence that he had gone through with anything.

But, if I'm honest it rocked us exponentially. The girls were just a few weeks old so we were both totally exhausted and I just couldn't see how I'd parent alone so I let him stay in the family home and we tried to work through things. I suggested counselling and DH agreed. I said that I thought he could find someone for us to see (a running theme of all of our arguments is often that I feel I am taking on the mental load in our relationship, arranging/coordinating/buying everything we do).

He did find a therapist but one for just himself. (Fine I thought- he can work on himself and we can work on ourselves together after) I started my own therapy too.

He had one therapy session and decided that the therapist was patronising and looked down on him (a common complaint of DH when he meets people). Since then nothing.

He is, for the most part, a supportive husband. But I feel like we want different things for the future, I've noticed since having children how accustom he was to me doing/thinking of everything for him.

Our wedding anniversary was early this month and he said the night before he'd be getting me flowers the next day. He arrived home from work (in a big city with lots of shops nearby) empty handed and my heart broke.

I would have been happy with a £1 bunch of daffodils, it's just the complete lack of thought and initiative and given what I caught him doing, I'd think that he'd be trying a little harder? Perhaps this is always who he was and I was blind to it?

Ffs

Bit of a drip feed omg there

Ltb

I'm divorced but am a solo parent by choice (I used a sperm donor to conceive), and no children with my ex husband.

I don't view my divorce as a failure, but the time spent in the relationship that was in retrospection clearly wrong and incompatible as a waste of precious time.

Are you certain there is no comeback? You need to consider how effective of a co parent will be? Would you need lawyers, or would you be able to come to an agreement by yourselves?

I think it depends on your circle of friends/work colleagues/acquaintances. The more diverse the crowd, the less judgement there will be. The more conservative the crowd, the more moral judgement might be passed.

You get one life is my motto nowadays! Enjoy your kids and your life!

Yes, taking into account what you added in your update, I would (and did) be gone by now. Signing up to an escort agency shows planning and thinking about being unfaithful. My exh was unfaithful to me when my eldest was 1 and I was pregnant with our second (I'd also had a v traumatic premature birth with our first). He swears they didn't sleep together but I will never know the truth so decided to assume they had. I also couldn't face the thought of being a single parent with 2 very small children so decided to put it behind us and I did, for ten years, until he had a full blown affair.

This time I wasn't going to stick around and we separated.

It doesn't sound like your dh is sorry for what he did and is trying all he can to make you believe he is sorry and that he would never do that again. Single parenthood is tough but not as tough as living with someone you don't know and don't trust.

I'm divorced. I've never been made to feel shame by it.

I have friends who have divorced and remained single, others who have divorced and remarried. I know a few couples well who really should divorce but won't for various reasons.

I know who are happier and who I, personally, have more respect for

Things that I have found over the last few years...

You don't need permission or approval to end a relationship. It is your decision and yours only. You have to live your life. No one else.

People sometimes get weird - I found some men particularly were spooked by the fact that someone of their age was getting divorced (potentially it made them realise that not everyone puts up with all sorts of shit in order to stay married).

People will gossip. Ignore and get on with life.

People will say stupid things (my mother, particularly!)

When you're single people feel more comfortable in letting you know what they think about your life. You don't have to listen to them.

A relationship that ends isn't a failed relationship. Every relationship we have teaches us something.

OK LTB

He breached your trust and is disrespectful of you. This isn't a case of "bickering"

I think you are seeing his true colours as you aren't bending over backwards for him cos of the twins. But in Amy case psychologically he thinks it's ok to use escorts when married. That speaks volumes about his attitudes to women and sex generally, and you his wife specifically.

Cut your losses now. You deserve so much better than this

I'd rather be divorced than in a loveless/lonely/abusive (delete as appropriate) marriage

I think that you're afraid your parents reactions rather than general society who won't care.

Anecdotally, my oldest child found divorce the hardest while the youngest hasn't at all but this is because ex and I are cordial and there's no new problem partners or other kids so it's all straight forward.

Sorry, I understand it was a drip feed.

I think I just feel so embarrassed, embarrassed that the husband I thought adored me would do that, and embarrassed that I didn't end it there and then.

My only reasoning is that my head was all over the place, the girls were still tiny and not long out of NICU so I was adjusting to everything and terrified at doing it on my own.

I'm more confident now as they're bigger (although its certainly not easy!) but I do long days on my own whilst DH is at work anyway so I know I could cope, and I do have some family who live nearby who can help.

I just feel so sad at the thought of all the time I spent with someone who feels like a stranger now. And feel sad I brought children into this world, even though I wouldn't change a thing about them being here- if that makes any sense.

As it happens we were looking to sell our house and move to another house. So I have an idea of the value of this house and we have made some money which means (in theory) we should be able to sell, split the proceeds and I can buy a smaller home for me and the girls.

Can't believe I'm even thinking about this.

Rarely.

But my question would be why would it matter? You know yourself most people couldn’t care less, so why wouldn’t you focus on whether you want to be married or not, not what people think of it