Miserable/negative husband- anyone else in this boat?

[shouldidivorcehim]

Name changed for this but I have a real dilemma.

Been married 17 years, 2 kids in their early teens. I feel like my husband is the most negative man on the planet. When we first met, he was positive, dynamic, caring and fun. I honestly dont know what happened to him but for years now he's been critical, negative and moany about literally everything. He complains constantly- 24/7, everything is inefficient and wrong. Its got to the point where I literally dread weekends because I cannot stand being around his constant negativity and complaining. We havent had a holiday in 10 years because nothing is ever up to his standards and according to him its a "waste of money" and the resorts are "laughing at him" for spending his well earned money on their substandard holidays. Some other examples: If anyone ever invites us out for a meal he complains about having to go, then on the way home in the car will moan about how the meal they cooked for us was frozen and it didnt taste how it should have and basically point out every flaw and things they should have done but didnt (no mention ever of how kind they were to invite us or do something nice for us). I was recently given a free ticket to a comedy night out and meal at a fancy hotel so we went. I dont know why I even bothered, for 2 weeks after all I heard was his criticisms of the night out, how the meal was substandard, the comedians werent as funny as they should be and all the things the hotel needed to improve. All he ever wants to do at weekends is clean the kitchen, then play x box, or watch tv all weekend. Never wants to go out anywhere or do anything. Our lives have become this horrible joyless treadmill of chores and sitting on the sofa.

I dont know if I can stand this any longer. He isnt depressed according to him and even if he was, he refuses to talk to anyone about it because typically he says, "counselling is a waste of money- I'm not paying a stranger to listen to my private thoughts" etc etc I honestly dont know what to do- the kids have noticed it as well and often make comments about how negative he is. Recently, I've been thinking about divorcing him because the thought of this being my life for the next 20-30 years makes me want to sob. I am at my wits end.

Has anyone else been in this situation and what did you do? thanks.

So, no, you haven’t told him what you’re telling us.

I think you should. Before thinking about divorce, I think you need to have an honest and forthright conversation with your husband. Big ‘phrasing it kindly’ and talking about the importance of making memories. Tell him he’s making you miserable. See what he comes back with.

He knows how deeply this is affecting me- he has witnessed me crying about it many times after such conversations that end up going nowhere. He has also witnessed me taking the kids out alone many times and Ive told him bluntly how it upsets me that he doesnt want to come with us and how hurt I feel when I see other dads engaging with their families when out and about because he never wants to. He just stubbornly sticks to the same script of "I work hard all week, if I want to relax and play x box or whatever, I will". Nothing changes.

Yes. I was the same. When I told my STBXH we needed to separate, I phrased it as “We are making each other miserable” but I really felt like he was miserable and it dragged me down too. I swear he was only happy when he was miserable! Interesting how he’s now motivated to change without me, he wouldn’t change for me.
Your H knows, he just doesn’t want to change. So you need decide if you can live with it or whether you need to move it b.

@shouldidivorcehim I totally sympathise. It's incredibly wearing , I found it easier to some extent when our son was still at home because it was a distraction. Unlike you we aren't that financially secure because we don't own a house yet work together -he is a high(ish) earner but also has high earner taste and trying to compromise on that hasn't proved easy-- I started out with a fairly skint but funny and clever 'bohemian' and now have a high earning, high spending materialistic H with an anger management problem and has lost his sense of fun and become judgemental of others. Thing is I don't think he likes himself much either but isn't prepared to compromise on the lovely rental house and nice car to distress his life and at 60 I feel somewhat trapped or prepare to be extremely poor .

OP, you don’t seem to get what I’m saying. I’m not having a go at you, so I apologise if it seems that way.

Have you at any point say him down and outlined everything that’s in this post and stated that it is making you miserable and causing you to question your relationship? Not complaining about specific incidents, or trying to coax him to open up or saying it hurts you when other people do things. Have you had this honest and forthright conversation? As it doesn’t sound like you have.

It may be useless and he might not care. However, you don’t know until you have the conversation.

My ex-husband was like this. Its a slow and insidious creep (none of these miserable buggers start out like this!), but it's utterly exhausting and draining. You spend huge mental energy trying to navigate their moods (even if your coping mechanism is to try and ignore it and carry about your day) whilst they couldn't care less about the effect of their black moods on everyone else they live with. Its selfish, entitled, and I agree with @ThisWormHasTurned that it is a form of control; having everyone have to navigate your moods all the time is a very effective way of getting what you want. I know its heartbreaking mourning the person you thought you'd married, but this is your precious, finite life too. Do you really want to live it with all the laughter, joy and heart sucked out of it? Do you want your kids to think this is normal, acceptable adult behaviour?

He may be depressed, he may not, but as he is actively opposed to doing anything to change the situation then nothing you say or do will make it better. Instead it sounds a lot like wallowing in his self-proclaimed victimhood whilst you try to carry the can and hold everything else in your lives together. Coincidentally, claiming yourself as one of life's victims is another very effective way of getting what you want.

Yes, the fear of the unknown is incredibly frightening; that's part of the reason my sad, souless, joy-free marriage carried on a lot longer than it should have. But the lightness I felt when I realised I was finally free of his miserable, miserly moods was so tangible, it was like being freed of a pair of shackles and a rucksack full of rocks. I thought I'd been hiding the burden well, but my family said it was so nice to have the old me back. The joy of allowing myself to be happy, of not having to navigate his moods! Of being able to express an opinion without being ridiculed or belittled for it because it didn't fit into his increasingly narrow, myopic world view.

My EXH was also opposed to counselling- waste of money!- so I avoided it for years. When I was at a similar stage to you I began discretely getting some counselling on the side without telling him, just to unpack everything I was feeling. I'd recommend it thoroughly if its an option for you. Good luck OP, it sounds like you're on the start of a journey. Keep us posted, we're rooting for you.

I'm in a similar position op and no real advice for you. My H is the complete victim mentality - like literally nothing has ever gone well for him in The course of his whole life.

Obviously that's not true. We are financially comfortable, amazing DS who's clever funny and polite but he just can't see how much better off we are then others and count the blessings.

My ExH is very similar - note the "ex". He's always acted years older than he is in terms of being a grumpy old man who's set in his ways, and it never got better.

Screen addiction has a lot to answer for there, too - if he's not glued to a console, he's glued to his phone, often both at the same time. He ruined the last family holiday we ever had by spending all his time on screens.

I went through photo memories of the DC on my phone recently, and EVERY picture he's in, his eyes are firmly focused on the TV or his phone.

It's no way to live. Only last week he asked me to have the DC a day early, because he wanted to visit his friend in another city for the weekend. The next day was DC2's 8th birthday 😔 My 11yo said to me "Daddy's going away instead of spending DC2's birthday with him? Why?"

Kids realise more is going on than we think. ExH has a much older son who has nothing to do with him because the ex never bothered, and if he doesn't buck his ideas up, history will repeat itself.

Please listen to your gut, you KNOW you deserve far better xx

Life is too short in one sense to be sad and unhappy but it also goes fast and you don’t want to look back and regret not living the life you want. your children will only be young once to enjoy and do family things with. I think deep down you know what you want it’s just scary to change everything.

you can express in a serious way how you feel, period of separation or live seperate to see if you really need him or you are happier without. Some parents are better apart and perhaps he doesn’t do much cause he knows you will pick the slack up and entertain the children. He will either realise what he is losing or be happier on his Tod as well so he can have a relationship with his Xbox.

What a horrible way to live.
You know you deserve better, right?

Quite.

Imagine what it would be like when the kids leave home.

@GoLightest
Coincidentally, claiming yourself as one of life's victims is another very effective way of getting what you want

Your statement gave me chills because this is so damn true. Its always a competition with him regarding who is the most tired, whom has it the worst, who makes the most sacrifices for the family, who works the hardest, who bears the brunt of all life's problems, who had the hardest upbringing etc Hint: its always him! Even when objectively, its not even bloody true.

You are right- he uses himself as being a "victim" to get his own way, every damn time. Of course, I am not allowed to be tired (or, if I am, I presume I am lying in his eyes) because if I'm very tired, he is the most tired person who ever existed etc The problem with being a constant victim too is that you never take responsibility to change because it comes from a place of complete helplessness and apathy.

@Cherchezlaspice - no, I didnt take it as you having a go. I think you made a very good point. My issue is that I struggle with confrontation and so what typically happens is, I try to phrase things kindly but then perhaps dont emphasise how much they are bothering me, then I end up crying in frustration. I will be changing that though as I cant go on like this. I will be telling him I am leaving unless he makes active and sustained changes.

I'm sorry you are too.

What on earth is this? I wish I understood why some men do this- act as if their lives have been great epic tragedies when in reality, they live comfortable, successful lives. What exactly do these martyrs want/expect out of life? At this point, I feel if he wont the lottery he'd spend the entire next week moaning about how inconvenient it was to have to go and pick up his winnings!

Oh God mine did that too! When I was EBF and he was sleeping in the spare room he tried to claim he was more tired than me! 🤦🏻‍♀️ If I ever criticised him, he would say “I can’t do anything right”…which was impossible to argue with and he always made out I was too critical. I swear that every single day, I think of something he did and think I’m so glad he doesn’t live here any more.

Write him a letter. If you think you’ll have difficulty saying this to his face, write it down and give it to him.

It does sound like a grief reaction, possibly compounded by lockdowns, price rises and the general shitshow that the world appears to be right now - even the wish to stay on the x-box and in front of the TV when not engaging in repetitive physical tasks (cleaning) can be trying to distract/self soothe from thinking about the loss and other things.

I don't think I was quite as objectionable as that when my brother was killed, but maybe I was - recorded music gave me no joy, I was just going through the motions at work because redundancy was looming, DP was helpless to lift it, as no matter what I did, there was always the sense of a great hole in my life just from knowing one of the bright spots was extinguished forever. And no, I didn't particularly want to go out and pretend I was fine when I wasn't and couldn't see any way how I could ever be fine again, but there was no way I was going to intentionally focus on the really crap stuff when I couldn't change it - he was dead, after all - any more than my head was forcing me to already.

Nobody telling me that their relatives died as well and they'd managed would make any difference to how I felt his absence. And I was still working, got a new job, paying the bills, washing, getting dressed and making it through to the end of the day. What more could anybody want?

But I don't drink, so I wasn't stuck in that place forever by depressing intoxicants. I found comfort in some things, a sense of calm from others, and it lifted in time. Just in time for lockdown #1 and a lovely dose of Covid where I was fighting to breathe for days. Which was a bit shit, to put it mildly.

But I got better and now, I'm OK. Still think stand up is shit/barely concealed spite and anger, but I'm happy.

@Cherchezlaspice I wrote mine a letter. It made no difference at all. He didn't even respond to it or mention it. OP needs to be prepared that this might happen to her if she tries this route.

@NeverDropYourMooncup I'm so, so sorry about the loss of your brother.

But some things you mention simply arent the case in my situation. I have never once asked my H to pretend to be fine and go out when he didnt want to. I have spent ages trying to support him and get him to open up about his feelings even when he never supported me when I lost my parents. I have also never compared my grief to his, I mentioned that in my post only to illustrate that I know what grief does to a person but that I did not take it out in anger on the people I love. He started down this road before his father died so it isnt just about grief. I am not expecting him to go out every weekend, or have holidays three times a year. All I am asking is for him to spend some time with us as a family and I wont apologise for that or be made to feel its an unreasonable ask because it isnt. Why even have kids if you refuse to spend any time with them? I would love him to seek help and would love to support him in that but he flatly refuses and calls it a waste of money so I go back to being helpless to do anything to assist him.

What I object to is the constant and unrelenting narrative on his part that he is a constant victim of life and therefore has carte blanche to be as shitty as he likes to the rest of us. Its not an excuse and its not ok.

Maybe he thought achieving a successful business and a comfortable lifestyle was the path to happiness - but has now discovered that it didn’t make him as satisfied as he thought it would. Being a perpetual victim and acting as though the world constantly wants to do one over on you seems to me like a king in his castle mithering away about the pot of gold inside and the idea others will take it.

The alcohol won’t help and it also sounds as though he has used material success to make himself happy rather than learning to deal with his emotions. i think a lot of men are like this actually - so busy focusing on getting things they totally underdevelop the emotional maturity they need. Then as they get older they either realise their material achievements aren’t doing it for them anymore or they are resentful if they never achieved ‘success’.

He sounds stubborn emotionally and although he acts the victim, clearly doesn’t want to actually do anything about it. And he clearly also doesn’t care about bringing you and his kids down and ah long the joy from your lives. It’s very selfish really, like it’s his ‘show’ and the rest of you are just there to take his moods out on.

You're right and I wasn't suggesting it was the case for you - it was how I felt at the time.

It does put me in mind of an ex whose friend died when they were 14 - he used that as justification for everything awful he ever did until the day his father died - and he's probably still using that as justification for appalling behaviour to whoever is stuck with him now. For him, it was all part of the alcohol.

He needed to have a 'reason' to make it not his fault, as if it's not his fault, he can't be expected to not do it anymore, same way having that 'winning comment' meant he could focus on himself when I was being investigated under a two week referral and not do anything he didn't want to do (like work, eat healthily, all the boring things that weren't drinking, eating junk food and being funded to do them).

Could your husband's drinking have been becoming a problem beforehand? And it's got worse since he's had the bereavement, as he had a 'reason' and now it's preventing him from adjusting to the loss?

Whatever the reason, it's not your fault and only he could do anything about it - but as things are, there's no benefit to him to do anything and a whole load of discomfort if he tried.

These are really good points, and I agree that there is more to life than material success and perhaps, it comes as a big shock to find you still arent happy if that has been your life goal.

I just wish I knew what WOULD make him happy- because it seems like nothing will. He has the family he always wanted, two lovely children, yet the way he talks you would think his life was in the gutter and everyone was against him. Its bizarre. It hurts because he knows how much his behaviour affects me and brings me down and its just like he doesnt even care. If someone I loved told me that my behaviour was making them incredibly sad, I would be devastated and I'd want to do something to change that. It baffles me that it doesnt appear to bother him even a little bit.

I can 100% relate to almost everything in your post. And I have heard exactly the same complaints from numerous friends.

Men seem to become more boring and insular and misanthropic as they age. A lot of middle-aged men also suffer from a kind of mild, low-level depression. My dad was like that. He hated pretty much everyone, never went anywhere, etc. He also clung to my mother and really dragged her down. She'd have liked to go abroad more, join a gym, take dancing classes, etc. But my dad would never have agreed. All he wanted to do was drink and watch TV and potter in his garden.

I often think that a lot of miserable, 40/50-something men would never leave the house if they didn't have to. If they could have things their own way, their wives would be like a cross between their mother and their servant, with a bit of sex thrown in. They don't want their wife to go off and have a life of her own. But they don't want to have to talk to her either.

I once heard a counsellor say that middle-aged women who leave their miserable husbands often think they won't cope. But she said that's hardly ever the case. They almost always cope better than they expected. And they almost always feel angry with themselves for not leaving earlier.

well, he doesnt cheat on me, he doesnt hit me

That isn't a low bar - it's positively subterranean.

You do know that not cheating and not hitting you isn't a default setting by which all relationships should be judged?

OP I am so sorry this has happened to you.
Ultimately it boils down to:
its very sad when people are struggling mentally, and yes lots of mental health issues make it virtually impossible to consider seeking help, but you have tried to support, and given him time, and ultimately his needs dont trump yours.
You are not punishing him for struggling by leaving. You leave because life is far too short. Another minute of this is too long. My dad was like this and we just dont have a real relationship because of it. I feel awful that my mum felt duty bound to make it work, we only have one life and you deserve better than to live under a black cloud.
Wishing you the absolute best of luck in leaving him - you will not regret it.
The PP description of her daughter singing in the shower after he left actually made me tear up. That is what life is about, lovely silly little moments of joy.

@Suetwo beautifully put. I think many men post 45 want a housekeeper, someone to share bills and sex on tap- yet thoroughly expect to be able to be victor meldrew on acid a lot of the time and the woman should be still be thoroughly up for it regardless of their general behaviour or looks.

Not all men thankfully are like the men Suetwo describes.

We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents, what did yours teach you?. We tend to repeat what is familiar to us and dad also has a huge influence on his daughter.