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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Teen encopresis. It’s a behavioural thing.

95 replies

Drybutnotcool · 01/08/2022 11:27

I posted in SEN chat but I’d appreciate the relational wisdom of this section.

I am losing my fucking mind with encopresis teen
He’s 13. Big strapping healthy lad, he’s at mainstream school with an EHCP for sensory processing and ASD. He’s holding his own academically but socially he’s wonky.

And he stool-withholds. He says he likes how it feels. Then he gets impacted, has overflow diarrhoea and soils himself. But he doesn’t care. He saves/hides the poo pants and says he sniffs them sometimes. I find them stashed, under cupboards and behind drawers.

He saw a cognitive psychologist who recommended essentially sitting with him until he got used to just being able to sit and void on the toilet. He can do that now, but he won’t.

Added to this, apparently he doesn’t do this at my ex husband’s house. My ex has taken delight in explaining how all of this is all my fault, there’s clearly a lot of tension in my house, etc. He is a DisneyDad extraordinaire and lets the kids do what they want, for the 2 nights per month they stay with him.

I have tried everything I can think of - and god knows I’ve read anything I can lay my hands on. We saw the paediatrician who deals with encopresis, privately and he just said “well it’s behavioural. So not my department” hence seeing the psych.

He went to his Dads for 10 days and got back yesterday and I’ve just gone into his room, and been hit by the stench. He was lying in bed watching the telly, in soiled pants on soiled sheets.

I have 2 other children, also SEN, btw and this tonight has sent me over the edge. If anyone has any wisdom please share it now. I feel like I’m losing him and yet I don’t know what to do.

I said I’d take him back to his Dads but his dad won’t have him. And of course it’s all my fault, even though he came home from there already impacted.

please help.

OP posts:
TLIMSISNW · 01/08/2022 22:13

@FrasierCraneDay You said “I would come down on him like a ton of bricks.”

Yep. You sound like you know what you’re talking about. 🙄

FFS.

Ohsugarhoneyicetea · 01/08/2022 22:13

My ASD child started this as a toddler. There wasn't much info available then but I found an American doctor who was writing about it and I joined his closed group forum for parents and read everything I could. I read about the teens who were still doing it, 18 year olds. And I was very determined that was not going to be my child. So I took a fairly aggressive approach, laxatives everyday so he had no choice but to go. It took a few months but we more or less beat it. He's now 16 and still prone to holding on a bit, the odd stained underpants, but he goes at least every other day, no big accidents. If it were my child, I would be giving him 2 Dulcolax every night until he started to go without it. Megacolon is a risk from with holding behaviours and the complications are serious.

TLIMSISNW · 01/08/2022 22:17

We find that shouting and coming down on them “like a ton of bricks” 🙄🙄🙄was as effective as a chocolate teapot.

We are strict about laxatives as per pp and after eating a meal, they have to sit on the toilet as that’s when their most likely to pop.

it’s awful though. Exhausting. Utterly, utterly exhausting. They’ve had surgery, been under the bowel team for years. We will beat this. One day. One day!

FrasierCraneDay · 01/08/2022 22:17

I did say that and that's exactly what I executed. I don't see how derailing the thread to have a go at me is helping. I posted what happened in my household and what worked. If you don't like that then fair enough, but don't clog the thread up with your nonsense.

To the op, I did get very strict and very fast. Cleaning themselves didn't work, so I bought adult nappies. No ifs or buts, you want to shite all over the house, you wear this, if we have visitors I won't keep it secret. It's amazing what the threat of embarrassment can do, especially when it's controlled by them.

demotedreally · 01/08/2022 22:25

Just to join this thread as it is super interesting. My ds who is coming up 7 is not properly trained either. He has accidents. Things are improving very slowly - first he decides he didn't want to have them at his new school (in Jan), and now rarely does. Now he sometimes has one on way back from school or more often in the playroom where he sneaks off to play and poo. He wouldn't really say that he likes how it feels really, he is not that articulate. Not diagnosed Sen although he is likely on the cusp of something.

I'm very taken with this idea about unresolved trauma / control. He was quite prem and bursting through my previous stitches which could be it. More noticeably he has always been traumatized but cutting nails and hair - I've always said he feels like I'm cutting a piece of him off. So maybe this is the same.

I'll turn up the love and routine and see if that helps him more.

TLIMSISNW · 01/08/2022 22:26

My own nonsense? You really haven’t dealt with this issue. No one who has lived through this would be such a dick to exhausted, exasperated parents navigating such an awful issue.

Also, coming down on people like a ton of bricks for behaviour that they themselves do t want to do but can’t stop. Just because he can co trip it at his dad’s, doesn’t necessarily mean he can control it in other environments. You really do t get this at all.

if you could ‘ton of bricks’ it out of them, do t you think we’d all do that?! Do t you think we’ve all lost it and shouted and cried and begged at moments of weakness and overwhelm? I don’t think you’ve got any idea at all. I think you believe you do but you don’t. This can go on for YEARS. I’ve lived with this for over a decade. It’s exhausting. You have no idea.

TLIMSISNW · 01/08/2022 22:28

Fat fingers and crying, make for lots of typos.

so exhausted if this. How I wish it was as simple as discipline. Then I wouldn’t be sat here now, feeling broken by yet another cleaning session this evening. FFS.

FrasierCraneDay · 01/08/2022 22:30

TLIMSISNW · 01/08/2022 22:26

My own nonsense? You really haven’t dealt with this issue. No one who has lived through this would be such a dick to exhausted, exasperated parents navigating such an awful issue.

Also, coming down on people like a ton of bricks for behaviour that they themselves do t want to do but can’t stop. Just because he can co trip it at his dad’s, doesn’t necessarily mean he can control it in other environments. You really do t get this at all.

if you could ‘ton of bricks’ it out of them, do t you think we’d all do that?! Do t you think we’ve all lost it and shouted and cried and begged at moments of weakness and overwhelm? I don’t think you’ve got any idea at all. I think you believe you do but you don’t. This can go on for YEARS. I’ve lived with this for over a decade. It’s exhausting. You have no idea.

Ok, I am not being a dick at all. I said what worked for me and my child. I am truly sorry that you feel that way but maybe take a step back? The world is not against you. I tried the soft approach, the understanding approach, the screaming in frustration approach, what worked was no ifs or buts, is MY way approach. If you have such a reaction to a success story I think you may need a break from the internet.

TLIMSISNW · 01/08/2022 22:34

It’s not a success story that’s upset me. Obviously.

im glad there’s one less family living like this.

it’s the smug ‘I’ll have it my way or the highway’ approach. As if we haven’t tried that. You sound like you think you could come into our homes and fix our issues. You couldn’t.

you fixed yours. Bravo. We've tried what you did. I tried that. I’ve tried it all.

it’s not the internet I need a break from. It’s people blithely thinking they know best.

FrasierCraneDay · 01/08/2022 22:38

TLIMSISNW · 01/08/2022 22:34

It’s not a success story that’s upset me. Obviously.

im glad there’s one less family living like this.

it’s the smug ‘I’ll have it my way or the highway’ approach. As if we haven’t tried that. You sound like you think you could come into our homes and fix our issues. You couldn’t.

you fixed yours. Bravo. We've tried what you did. I tried that. I’ve tried it all.

it’s not the internet I need a break from. It’s people blithely thinking they know best.

I was not being smug at all, you've made it that way. If I was being smug I wouldn't have admitted how hard it was and the stages we went through. All I have done is said what worked for us

TLIMSISNW · 01/08/2022 22:41

Fair enough. I’m too broken to argue or even figure out if you’re a dick or if I am. I’m so tired of this.

FrasierCraneDay · 01/08/2022 22:45

TLIMSISNW · 01/08/2022 22:41

Fair enough. I’m too broken to argue or even figure out if you’re a dick or if I am. I’m so tired of this.

Neither of us are being dicks, just different experiences and different approaches

Lostlostlost3 · 01/08/2022 22:50

@TLIMSISNW and @TheSnootiestFox you guys sound like my kind of parents. It's so lovely to read that your starting point for this is love and compassion. As a parent to an autistic boy and a teacher I can promise you that your approach is brilliant.

I've also come across many parents like @FrasierCraneDay in my time... the less said the better.

I think the minimum starting point for treating any human has to be with compassion and understanding. Continence is a basic human right that should be supported not dealt with via shame, embarrassment or fear.

TheSnootiestFox · 01/08/2022 22:52

FrasierCraneDay · 01/08/2022 22:45

Neither of us are being dicks, just different experiences and different approaches

Show quote history

@FrasierCraneDay well, you and I will have to agree to disagree on that! You are being a dick and you know it. Thanks for your support. @TLIMSISNW it's not you 😁x

FrasierCraneDay · 01/08/2022 22:52

Why the less said? Please enlighten me

FrasierCraneDay · 01/08/2022 22:57

This reply has been deleted

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TheSnootiestFox · 01/08/2022 22:58

Lostlostlost3 · 01/08/2022 22:50

@TLIMSISNW and @TheSnootiestFox you guys sound like my kind of parents. It's so lovely to read that your starting point for this is love and compassion. As a parent to an autistic boy and a teacher I can promise you that your approach is brilliant.

I've also come across many parents like @FrasierCraneDay in my time... the less said the better.

I think the minimum starting point for treating any human has to be with compassion and understanding. Continence is a basic human right that should be supported not dealt with via shame, embarrassment or fear.

Thank you x Reading this has made me so concerned that I've somehow caused this and I've just called DS down, sat him on my knee (yes really) cuddled him and told him how much I love him and how we'll get this sorted for him. We've had a really good deep and meaningful and he's agreed to try and sit on the loo for me while he's off school. He wants a grown up to tell him it's all going to be OK and some support, not plastic sheets and a bollocking.......

TheSnootiestFox · 01/08/2022 22:59

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

@FrasierCraneDay If I did things your way I'd have a suicide on my hands. It's been a close call before over the years. So I'll take my smelly sheets for now and no corpse, thank you kindly.

FrasierCraneDay · 01/08/2022 23:01

And I was supposed to assume that? Know that? By what, osmosis?

TheSnootiestFox · 01/08/2022 23:03

FrasierCraneDay · 01/08/2022 23:01

And I was supposed to assume that? Know that? By what, osmosis?

I have never, ever in my decade or so on mumsnet been moved to call anyone a fuckwit before, but tonight might be that moment. Good evening to you.

bobbythevet · 01/08/2022 23:05

As a professional in the (behavioural) field, I'd recommend getting this book and working through it, it's pretty user friendly

Functional Assessment and Program Development for Problem Behavior: A Practical Handbook amzn.eu/d/6dsfvEU

Lostlostlost3 · 01/08/2022 23:06

@TheSnootiestFox I have tears in my eyes reading that. Just in case no one else says...

You are doing the right thing.
You are doing the right thing.
You are doing the right thing.

Your boy is lucky to have you. I never expected to be on this road (does anyone?), but my starting point for my little boy is to always make sure he has good self esteem. No matter what. No plastic sheets or shouting in this house 😊

FrasierCraneDay · 01/08/2022 23:07

I am honoured, needing to call me a name over the internet, god love you.
So from a teen deliberately pooping, to a solution that specifically worked for me, to being a fuckwit Grin

mikado1 · 01/08/2022 23:08

Play therapist here...agree with the psychotherapy recommendations and the consideration of trauma/control element, like something is being held onto that is so difficult to let go. This sounds incredibly difficult and I hope you and your children can get some relief from this. As well as therapy, and creative psychotherapy might be a good option for this age (you might know if this would be a good option), breath work, yoga, bubble blowing, physically and verbally letting things out might be worth trying. This could be merged with a routine approach. Try not to think of 'I might have caused it' ...wishing you all the best

BuntingBonanza · 01/08/2022 23:11

I had a sort of similar issue as a teen, not encopresis but a toileting issue that I half wanted to stop and half couldn’t. I have/ had sensory issues plus a lot of anxiety and probably ADHD (currently awaiting diagnosis) and would sort of enjoy, or not even enjoy as such but I guess kind of fixate/ hyper focus on the feeling of holding whilst at the same time getting anxious about having to go up to the bathroom and then procrastinate about going until it was too late and I’d have accidents while I would then hide, I wanted to stop but also couldn't. It wasn’t chronic/ daily, it would flare when I was over anxious and mostly only happened at home. I don’t think punishment would have helped for the holding or accidents and my parents were relatively understanding of them in terms of thinking it was out of my control but I would get in trouble for hiding the wet clothes/ sheets etc which I think was reasonable.

I guess I would try to separate the anxious and habitual behaviours he can’t easily get control of even if he wants to (Eg: withholding, accidents, anxiety around sitting on a toilet) from the behaviours which he can (Eg: lying in it for extended periods, hiding or stashing soiled underwear). I would consider putting in place consequences for that second set of behaviour, just because he has this condition doesn’t mean it’s reasonable for him to be keeping soiled underwear to sniff or lying in his soiled clothing because he likes the way it feels and those behaviours are making an already stressful situation much worse for you to deal with. I think it’s reasonable for those kinds of behaviours to have consequences attached to them, and whilst obviously it’s difficult to use reward type positive reinforcement when the person can’t really help the unwanted behaviour (Eg: accidents) I think abstaining from the stashing kinds of behaviours are more likely to be something he can get control of more easily so may be better behaviours to initially target?