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Original poster

Teen encopresis. It’s a behavioural thing.

95 replies

Drybutnotcool · 01/08/2022 11:27

I posted in SEN chat but I’d appreciate the relational wisdom of this section.

I am losing my fucking mind with encopresis teen
He’s 13. Big strapping healthy lad, he’s at mainstream school with an EHCP for sensory processing and ASD. He’s holding his own academically but socially he’s wonky.

And he stool-withholds. He says he likes how it feels. Then he gets impacted, has overflow diarrhoea and soils himself. But he doesn’t care. He saves/hides the poo pants and says he sniffs them sometimes. I find them stashed, under cupboards and behind drawers.

He saw a cognitive psychologist who recommended essentially sitting with him until he got used to just being able to sit and void on the toilet. He can do that now, but he won’t.

Added to this, apparently he doesn’t do this at my ex husband’s house. My ex has taken delight in explaining how all of this is all my fault, there’s clearly a lot of tension in my house, etc. He is a DisneyDad extraordinaire and lets the kids do what they want, for the 2 nights per month they stay with him.

I have tried everything I can think of - and god knows I’ve read anything I can lay my hands on. We saw the paediatrician who deals with encopresis, privately and he just said “well it’s behavioural. So not my department” hence seeing the psych.

He went to his Dads for 10 days and got back yesterday and I’ve just gone into his room, and been hit by the stench. He was lying in bed watching the telly, in soiled pants on soiled sheets.

I have 2 other children, also SEN, btw and this tonight has sent me over the edge. If anyone has any wisdom please share it now. I feel like I’m losing him and yet I don’t know what to do.

I said I’d take him back to his Dads but his dad won’t have him. And of course it’s all my fault, even though he came home from there already impacted.

please help.

OP posts:
Original poster
Drybutnotcool · 01/08/2022 19:28

She looks like someone who would get it. I’ll try and get to her!

OP posts:
aurynne · 01/08/2022 20:33

This must be so infuriating and frustrating Drybutnotcool.

You say he doesn't do this at his father's house. Is there a possibility to tell him that he just cannot live at yours, and will have to stay at his dad's, until he can poo in the toilet at your house?

NrlySp · 01/08/2022 20:55

Couple of thoughts - maybe helpful, maybe not.
could he wear adult nappies? Might make the mess easier to deal it’s.
hypnotherapy?

it sounds really tough

Lostlostlost3 · 01/08/2022 20:56

Charmaine has been helping my little boy and everything has been based around routine. Toilet breaks are built into his everyday 20-30 mins after meals for 10 mins at a time. There's no exception. My little boy is a lot younger so not sure if a teenager would oblige. Maybe routine based would be the way to go then you aren't relying on him waiting for a feeling, which he may not recognise or like? Could you explore things from a sensory processing disorder perspective? Possibly with occupational therapy?

Again, we use Vicky but for a younger child: sensory-solutions.newzenler.com

Lostlostlost3 · 01/08/2022 20:58

Charmaine Champs Facebook support group attached.

Teen encopresis. It’s a behavioural thing.
WhichBitchIsWhich · 01/08/2022 20:58

What would happen if you turned the wifi off overnight and didn't turn it back on until he had his arse parked on the toilet in the morning?

(I have both NT and ND DC btw and turning off the wifi is the absolute ultimate motivator for all of them)

Lostlostlost3 · 01/08/2022 20:59

OP sorry for the spam but you might find this book useful for all things sensory "the out of synch child". Good luck Flowers

DrRuthGalloway · 01/08/2022 21:04

It may be far too late for this - but it is what worked for my daughter who was witholding urine for 24 hours at a time ..

I put an alarm on a tablet to go off every 2 hours. When the alarm went off, she went and sat on the toilet. It took a couple of days to sort out a problem that had been going on for months.
I think it's because it took all the battle of wills and emotion out of the situation. She was a lit younger though. Maybe they'd try it for a couple of weeks?

Zoeslatesttrope · 01/08/2022 21:06

Ideas for some sensory substitutes?

www.autisticatedalmayne.co.uk/2016/04/

bevelino · 01/08/2022 21:07

OP, it is very hard what you are going through. Have you tried hypnosis as it can help modify behaviour if the child is receptive?

urrrgh46 · 01/08/2022 21:25

Hi OP - I don't have any words of wisdom - so sorry! We've had toileting issues with ours (autistic children) but largely been grown out of. We went through a lovely poo smearing stage 😳 But I wanted to offer virtual support of you knowing that there are parents here who even when they don't fully understand do NOT judge! And wouldn't in real life either!! Now if anyone has any words of wisdom to get the 12 yr old autistic to get washed and changed more than every few weeks.....

FrasierCraneDay · 01/08/2022 21:36

There's no way in a month of Sundays would I put up with this, one of my dcs has sen so I'm not completely lacking in knowledge. You say he doesn't do this at his fathers? Well that's where he would be staying. Nobody should be living in a house smelling of adult human shit, it's revolting. As you say it's not behavioural, he can turn it off and on, I would come down on him like a ton of bricks. If he can't go to his fathers then make his home life as shite as yours. No Wi-Fi, no devices, his bedroom would have a bed (covered in plastic sheets) and a wardrobe, nothing more.

urrrgh46 · 01/08/2022 21:40

@FrasierCraneDay that's not how autistic people, particularly those with demand avoidant profiles and lots of sensory processing issues and possibly other mental health issues work! If it were as simple as do as I say or lose your Wi-Fi (insert any other desired item) then no one would have any issues with their children would they? I have one who had emotionally based school avoidance - I could have removed EVERYTHING he had and he still wouldn't have gone to school and would have been totally uneducated to boot!

FrasierCraneDay · 01/08/2022 21:42

urrrgh46 · 01/08/2022 21:40

@FrasierCraneDay that's not how autistic people, particularly those with demand avoidant profiles and lots of sensory processing issues and possibly other mental health issues work! If it were as simple as do as I say or lose your Wi-Fi (insert any other desired item) then no one would have any issues with their children would they? I have one who had emotionally based school avoidance - I could have removed EVERYTHING he had and he still wouldn't have gone to school and would have been totally uneducated to boot!

I appreciate that but if the child doesn't do it at his fathers then it can be and is controlled

Soontobe60 · 01/08/2022 21:45

baroqueandblue · 01/08/2022 13:08

If you do look for a therapist, try to find someone who can work from the Object Relations/Kleinian model of development. Faeces is conceptualised as hostile weaponry tied to feelings of rage and hate/suppressed love, and what the child/teen does with their own faeces is based on unconscious symbolic meaning, eg. they withold it, control it, use it for purposes of controlling their environment and reactions/behaviour of others, etc. Basically, they have a relationship with it that serves some objective buried in their early lives. The toilet can symbolise things like being devoured/falling into a void, and toilet training can evoke unresolved issues around authority and power struggles. It's all tied to some grave, early disturbance in their inner world; even how they handled or made sense of their parents' relationship/separation/divorce can be a significant factor that, as long as it's buried and unresolved, continues to influence their behaviour. The key insight is that it's about their relationship to/sense of ownership of their own 'productions' and is an emotional problem first and foremost, although the nature of the emotions changes over time in response to other developmental and circumstantial influences which entrench the behaviour. A book called The Presenting Past by Michael Jacobs has a great section on the 'anal stage' and its emotional and symbolic relevance to the young child. How that then develops into encopresis in some children is something that would be therapeutically addressed by a Kleinian/Object Relations psychotherapist.

I'm sorry @Drybutnotcool and @TheSnootiestFox , this must be incredibly difficult, upsetting and demoralising to deal with, for you and your boys.

As a Senco, I’ve worked with several boys (and their mums) who absolutely fit this description. They’ve all had early trauma, absent fathers, mothers who were / are victims of DSV. There really is no easy one-size-fits-all solution.

Soontobe60 · 01/08/2022 21:46

FrasierCraneDay · 01/08/2022 21:42

I appreciate that but if the child doesn't do it at his fathers then it can be and is controlled

Show quote history

Overall, it IS about control

TheSnootiestFox · 01/08/2022 21:47

FrasierCraneDay · 01/08/2022 21:36

There's no way in a month of Sundays would I put up with this, one of my dcs has sen so I'm not completely lacking in knowledge. You say he doesn't do this at his fathers? Well that's where he would be staying. Nobody should be living in a house smelling of adult human shit, it's revolting. As you say it's not behavioural, he can turn it off and on, I would come down on him like a ton of bricks. If he can't go to his fathers then make his home life as shite as yours. No Wi-Fi, no devices, his bedroom would have a bed (covered in plastic sheets) and a wardrobe, nothing more.

But this is the thing, you don't get the option to put up with it or not. That's how the child behaves. You either manage it and keep trying to find a solution or you make the child feel completely insecure and unloved by reacting. Jesus, Mary and fucking Joseph @FrasierCraneDay , your child is having issues and you basically put them in surroundings like a prison cell? That would make things a million times worse!

FrasierCraneDay · 01/08/2022 21:49

A room without Wi-Fi or tech devices is a prison cell Confused I didn't say they should be locked in it! Get a grip

TLIMSISNW · 01/08/2022 21:57

FriaserCraneDay You have no idea how hard this issue is to live with. It’s exhausting.

Its a bit like how everyone is a perfect parent until they actually have kids. You think you know what you’d do, but it’s not that simple. It may sound it, but it’s not.

I have DC with SEN. I also have DC who withhold. The withholding is the most exhausting and demanding element of parenting I’ve experienced. It’s so hard. You seriously have no idea.

TheSnootiestFox · 01/08/2022 22:00

FrasierCraneDay · 01/08/2022 21:49

A room without Wi-Fi or tech devices is a prison cell Confused I didn't say they should be locked in it! Get a grip

@FrasierCraneDay I think you're the one that needs to be getting a grip. Jesus 🙄

bluegardenflowers · 01/08/2022 22:02

You can buy large pull-ups so they are disposable. I suppose screen time bargaining isn't an option

FrasierCraneDay · 01/08/2022 22:03

I absolutely do not need a grip but thank you for the concern. I don't recall saying I've never dealt with a child withholding? That's because I have, and we came out of the other side. I was strict then and I still am now, but if you want to vilify my whilst living in a house smelling of faeces and unable to have visitors then you go ahead, best of luck OP

TheSnootiestFox · 01/08/2022 22:07

Soontobe60 · 01/08/2022 21:45

As a Senco, I’ve worked with several boys (and their mums) who absolutely fit this description. They’ve all had early trauma, absent fathers, mothers who were / are victims of DSV. There really is no easy one-size-fits-all solution.

Show quote history

Now, I'm really interested in this as as far as I'm aware, he hasn't had early trauma. He was the most wanted and loved firstborn to a professional middle class couple and although my marriage was crap and subsequently went pear shaped, he was about 9 or 10 when that happened and I've been flagging this up since he was three! I've also got another son who is 21 months younger and had exactly the same upbringing and has no issues. Is it always trauma related?

TheSnootiestFox · 01/08/2022 22:09

FrasierCraneDay · 01/08/2022 22:03

I absolutely do not need a grip but thank you for the concern. I don't recall saying I've never dealt with a child withholding? That's because I have, and we came out of the other side. I was strict then and I still am now, but if you want to vilify my whilst living in a house smelling of faeces and unable to have visitors then you go ahead, best of luck OP

@FrasierCraneDay I'm not the OP, and believe me I've done the strict thing and what he actually responds best to is endless love and reassurance. But hey, you do you.

serenghetti2011 · 01/08/2022 22:11

Op this is also my son he’s 11
i have tried everything. He’s recently had a duel diagnosis Asd/adhd and is very much a sensory seeker and enjoys sitting in it. The smell especially as he’s bigger is so bad. Changing an 11 year olds bottom is not pleasant at all. I’ve come down on him. I’ve been consistent and strict I’ve got angry you name it. Every child is different, I suppose the longer it goes on the harder it is to unravel.

saying that my son went off and did 2 huge poos un prompted on the toilet earlier which is unheard of. He’s not on laxitives and no continence nurse as she left last December so paying a fortune for pants, wipes pull ups which are almost too small now. But am so glad I just need to be strict, if only I’d thought of that in the last 11 years. Anyway In some ways I’m glad I’m not the only person going through this, but on the same thread it’s hell trying to get to the bottom of it - sorry my son does it at home and at his dads though and doesn’t at school so of course there is control but it’s on his terms and unpicking it feels impossible. Hope things improve op,