Really need some thoughts on this please.

[EmbossedGlass]

I have posted previously about this...

Earlier this year, a 'friend' of mine began behaving oddly towards/around my boyfriend - lots of very ott flirting, touching him, essentially, making a bit of a fool of herself. Meanwhile, her behaviour towards me also changed - she stopped speaking to me entirely and, when she did, made little digs.

He didn't directly tell her to stop because he said he didn't want to make her feel awkward but he gave her no encouragement, moved away from her, ignored her efforts and hoped that she would take the hint. However, he had said that he would say something if the hints hadn't worked. But it wasn't necessary.

She largely seems to have done so and has backed off a lot. Not completely but her interactions with him are far more within 'normal parameters' now and she's no longer 'throwing herself at him'. Essentially, she's not behaving like a dick anymore.

But I'm really struggling with it all now. She, as predicted by some on here, changed her approach when she was not getting the desired response from him. She sent me a couple of messages asking how I was, saying that she knew we hadn't spoken for a while and being all friendly. I, as advised, was civil in responses but didn't engage any further - which suited me. But I can't tolerate being around her. I can't look at her and I can't be in the same space as her at all. I walked past her a few weeks ago and didn't stop to speak. She confronted me and asked "Are we good?" I just said I wasn't feeling well - which was a truth but not the whole truth.

She's now returned to smiling and hugging me when we meet unless I actively stay away from her. She only does it when he is there though. I feel it is more manipulation as I can't avoid it without looking like I'm being a dick.

Other people have recently commented on her behaviour to me - everyone has seen. One guy (as I said previously) joked that she has a crush on my partner; he feels she is jealous of me; other people have suggested that they feel sorry for her to be so desperate for male attention and others have speculated that all is not well in her own relationship. I said I felt it made look like a twat. Others have disagreed and said she's making a fool of herself and not me. But I can't see it like that. Not in a way that sticks.

I'm too old to be putting up with this shit. I just want to walk away from all of it. The group and the hobby. But, in doing so, I will effectively be ending my relationship too.

I said in first thread that I'm autistic and so things are very black and white to me. In my mind, I don't feel respected and I can't be part of it anymore. I don't have people pleasing tendencies and have no qualms in telling people what I think or walking away but I don't really want to walk away from the group or the hobby and I certainly don't want to walk away from my relationship but, at the moment, I'm struggling to see an alternative or a way of moving past it other than walking away from it all and shutting it off like none of it ever existed.

It occupies pretty much all my waking thoughts just rattling around in my head (autism). I can't get out of my head on this one.

Hi Op

You need to take back the power.
There are a number of ways you can do this!

Some suggested - smile and hug her back!
I would not do this - step back from her!

Do not tell her how you feel / or that she has hurt your feelings. This will play right into her hands.

If she messages you by text/ email ignore her - that is sending a message.

If she blatantly comes up to you and asks ! "what's wrong!, did I do something wrong, are we not friends anymore"
Be very direct, honest! Reply!

" (Her Name), to be honest with you, I don't have much time for you! you have embarrassed yourself the way you have behaved in the past few months.
You know exactly what you've been up to. The fact that a number of people within the group has commented it to me, has confirmed it!, I am fine to be civil to you, but lets leave it at that!" Walk away from her.

Don't mention how you feel, or even your DP's name. She'll stand there with her mouth open and big bewildered look - Fuck her - you don't owe her anything.
Get strong - don't even think about leaving the group.
Some women are unbelievable and use you kind nature against you. I always advise my daughters to be direct - know what you are going to say - don't bring emotion into it.

Best of luck to you .

I''m too old to be putting up with this shit. I just want to walk away from all of it. The group and the hobby. But, in doing so, I will effectively be ending my relationship too.

There's no reason why you giving up a hobby would end your relationship (even if your partner is involved with it.) If you get on well with each other, you'll still get on well with each other.

Having said that, it'd be a shame for you to have to stop doing a hobby if you enjoy it. Is there some other group you could go to to do it?

(sorry if I've missed some updates. I often get some glitches when I post.)

I'm not sure you're ever going to be able to let this go

no, I'm not either...

You may be fine walking away from the hobby, gigs and friendship group, but he obviously is not. Your bigger picture is not the same as his bigger picture. Your idea of disrespect is not his . Your idea of what makes you look a twat is not his idea of what makes a person look like a twat. Etc etc

I wouldn't expect him to walk away. Part of the reason I want to is so that he doesn't have to choose between me and them/her when we are out. If I'm just not there, he won't have that choice to make. But I'm also aware of the wider implications of that. I would be completely separate to a huge part of his life.

I do get that he sees it differently to me. He just wanted her to stop so things would go back to the way they had been before. But I don't feel it can be the way it was before.

He does think she was being disrespectful but he sees it as a manifestation of her own insecurities and so has some sympathy for her. I don't think that excuses her behaviour. He doesn't think it's made me look like a twat but he can see why I do.

The few people who've mentioned it to me have also stated that they don't have like her be aise of this type of behaviour amd another couple left the group last year in part because they didn't want to be around it. So it's not just me. But I wouldn't expect him to feel the same as me.

She told me a couple of years ago that, when we first met, she was jealous of me because she thought I was prettier and more accomplished than she was. My boyfriend thinks that this is a resurgence of that. But I don't likenthe feeling of being in competition with someone which is part of the reason I've withdrawn. I have no interest in it and there have been several occasions when she has obviously been competing with me both for his attention and prominence within the group. He has seen it too. As have others.

It has reached the point of necessary. Tell him you'd like him to implicitly tell her he's not interested.

Thanks.

We're going away for a weekend this weekend so it's possible she'll say something. But wasn't sure whether I should or not.

If anything, I was going to say something like...

"Tbh, you've behaved like a bit of a dick the last few months. [Boyfriend] said he hoped that, if he just ignored you, you'd take the hint which, tbf, you seem to have done in the main. We're not the only ones who have noticed and you've made a bit of a fool of yourself. I've got no interest in being friends with you. I'll be civil for the sake of the group but that's it."

But it would take her to confront me for me to say anything. I certainly wouldn't tell her she'd hurt my feelings. I'm disappointed that this is who she turned out to be and I'm cross with her level of disrespect. I do find it difficult to see how my boyfriend can still regard her as a friend whem she set put to cause so much trouble in his relationship but I think it's more that she is/was a good laugh and good company (when she's not being a dick). I can understand him not wanting to lose that. But I am a lot more black and white than he is.

There's another couple in the group who just ignore her outright and have always done so because they don't like her.

To be honest it does sound a bit like neither of you are really giving her clear messages here. She's asking you if you're ok with eachother and you're saying yes, even though you're not ok with her and she's doing things he finds inappropriate but he's not saying anything to her either. It's hardly surprising she hasn't taken the hint if she's not really being given the hint in the first place. It makes me wonder if you and your bf are really on the same page with this? If you're not ok with her, stop telling her you are. It's not going to help things and gives her mixed messages.

I didn't tell her I was ok with her. But you're right, I wasnt honest with my response because it caught me unawares, I wasn't expecting it and had no idea what I wanted to say. Which is why I came up with a response in case she asked again.

He has clearly, and obviously to everyone, ignored her when she is behaving inappropriately. He was standing talking to another man the other day and she walked over and stood between them. Other than my boyfriend stepping away from her, they both ignored her presence. She laughed at their conversation, put her hand on my boyfriend's arm and both men behaved as though she wasn't there. Yet she stayed there.

Within the context of the hobby, he speaks to her as he would always have done because that's appropriate. Due to our roles, I have no need to talk to her. He does. But socially, he engages with her very little now. He wouldn't be rude to her if she approached him directly to ask him something, for example. But he won't chat with her like he did before.

"Tbh, you've behaved like a bit of a dick the last few months. [Boyfriend] said he hoped that, if he just ignored you, you'd take the hint which, tbf, you seem to have done in the main. We're not the only ones who have noticed and you've made a bit of a fool of yourself. I've got no interest in being friends with you. I'll be civil for the sake of the group but that's it."

Good woman! Stop waiting for your BF to sort it out - Men are not the same as us and don't like the "drama" with other women and choose the easier route of ignoring it.
Sometimes you just need to stand up for yourself - once you've said your piece walk away - don't continue any engagement with her.

She sounds like a right piece of work - relying on you not to put her in her place!
She should be embarrassed!

She sounds a bit unhinged. You need to be firm and clear in your interactions with her. Stop referring to her as a friend, she definitely isn't one. She doesn't bring anything joy or lightness to your life. Cut her out. Remain polite but nothing more. No hugs, no air kisses, no conversation.

he needs to remove her hand if she touches him though. He most know it's inappropriate.

There's another couple in the group who just ignore her outright and have always done so because they don't like her.

You could always take a leaf out of their book. They've set their boundaries around her without giving up their hobby or friends.

Perhaps even just talk to them? Even if you don't use their identical tactics, having some people who understand all the nuances to vent to will be helpful for you - you'll have people in the group who have your back on this.

He does and he doesn't like it which is why he ignores her.

It's not something we talk about. It hasn't been mentioned in weeks. But I know that, previously, he felt that doing anything 'direct' or 'active' would make her feel awkward amd embarrassed and he didn't want to do that.

He thinks that ignoring her will be enough to send the message when she does something inappropriate. A bit like ignoring the bad and rewarding the good with children. So he'll engage with her on a normal friendly level but not if she goes too far. But she's either not reading it or deliberately ignoring it. Not completely, I mean the extreme stuff has definitely stopped but it makes me anxious that I have no idea when and whether she will do something more inappropriate. And, if its been a while and she catches him off guard, he might not get it right either.

I have spoken with them. It was they who brought it up. They don't go every week largely, it transpires, because they don't want to spend any longer with her than is absolutely necessary.

They're quite quiet people so, whilst I know they'd be 'on my side', they also wouldn't want to get involved which is fair enough.

But it's the unconscious messages you're both giving out with your own body language that is the problem here. You might not tell her you're ok with her but your body language is still giving the impression you're ok with her by hugging, and why isn't he physically removing her hands when she touches him instead of just ignoring it? By doing so he's allowing her to think he's ok with it. Unless he has consented to being touched that's a line being crossed right there. I'm not having a go. I'm just seeing a lot of mixed boundaries here where words and deeds are not terribly well aligned, hence why I do think you and your bf may not be quite on the same page with this.

How do you mean, not on the same page?

I do see what you're saying about mixed messages generally though

What I mean is I think he could be doing more and so far he seems to be excusing it. Like when she put her hand on his arm the other day while he was talking to another man. Did he just ignore it or did he physically remove her hand and ask her what she was playing at? He says he doesn't want to make her feel awkward and that may be the crux of the problem. She needs to be made to feel awkward because what she's doing crosses boundaries and is not ok. I'm this case ignoring it and not making a point of pulling her up may well be giving her the message it's ok.

Previously when she was very 'handsy' with him, he just pretended it wasn't happening but said it made him feel very uncomfortable.

There was an occasion when he was bending over to sort something out and I approached him and stroked his lower back. He leapt up, swung round, saw it was me and his face relaxed as he said, "Thank fuck its you!" and laughed. So it's not welcomed.

But he feels that something as direct as moving her hand, for example, in front of others would embarrass her and make her feel uncomfortable. Because it's a direct action. He doesn't really see that it makes me uncomfortable when he doesn't because that's all indirect. He's taking the path of least resistance basically. And, in theory, he's not actually bothered about someone touching his arm - the other women in the group do it. So it feels odd to him to do it. He knows it would be perceived as a snub.

He did tell her to "Go away" on one occasion. He had his hands full of heavy equipment and she slid her arms round his waist, put her head on his chest and hugged him. She did step back but just laughed and looked at me smiling.

She's an idiot.

He says he doesn't want to make her feel awkward and that may be the crux of the problem. She needs to be made to feel awkward because what she's doing crosses boundaries and is not ok. I'm this case ignoring it and not making a point of pulling her up may well be giving her the message it's ok.

I very much agree with you on that.

All this unwelcome unasked for touching! If it were a man doing it to a woman she would hopefully at least speak to a few people including the organiser saying it was making her very uncomfortable and be supported- is there an ‘organiser’ of this hobby? Who can say to her on your dhs behalf that it is not appropriate to continue randomly touching people who have not welcomed any such behaviour?

No, it's just a group of friends doing something for fun. I guess the 'top people' would be my boyfriend and another man. It's not an organisation.

I think part of the reason I'm frustrated by his response is that I know how I'd respond if a man was behaving like this towards me and behaving disrespectfully to my boyfriend. I know because I've had to do it before. I don't think many women are strangers to the persistent unwanted advances of men but I think a lot of men find it difficult to respond to it because the natural expectation is for them to protect women and not feel threatened by them.

If it were me, I'd have said, "What the fuck are you doing? Stop being a dick!" months ago because I've done so before and long before it ever escalated to the extent this did.

I also think he was wary about doing anything that she could use to position him as the 'bad guy'.

Just wondering if there is more to this story. What if they were both involved in some way and her touching and flirting with him is her way of showing you she can... and him not doing much about it is his way of dealing with it as he thinks she might tell you?
I would ditch the pair of them tbh. Life is too short for all this shite

No, she's been married for 20 years and he's only known her for around a year longer than he's known me.

He had a partner previously and she wasn't like this with him. He thinks it's specifically linked to how she feels about me and nothing to do with him at all. She previously told me she was jealous of me when we first met. He says he thinks it's because she wants to feel she could have him if she wanted to 🤷🏻‍♀️

She does all of this in front of her husband and he doesn't bat an eyelid. Which has caused others to speculate she's just desperate for male attention and something is lacking in the marriage.

Normally I would but, other than this situation, which isn't of his creation although he hasn't handled it as I would have done, things are perfect. We both see this as being a long term thing.

Well, unless I walk away.

Your bloke needs to grow a pair and tell her to stop