At odds with my DH over PIL

[FruitLoopDeLoop]

I have been with my DH for over 30 years and we are both in our 50's. For the whole duration of this time, I have not had a good relationship with my in-laws, in particular his mum.

The things my MIL says to people, including her own DC, are very nasty, and damaging. His mum is also a game player and very controlling. There are too many things to list here, but take it from me, she is very dangerous.

So, as my MIL has aged she has changed roles from toxic bully to ageing, frail victim with Madonna status, who cannot be upset by anyone. In the past my DH has admitted that his mum is nasty, but he never did anything about it, making it more difficult for me to stand up for myself. Now, however, he feels really sorry for her as she is getting old and frail (not so).

Here is where the "at odds" are coming through. My DH wants to visit them more and do things for them, whereas I am the complete opposite. I am older and wiser now and I feel that his mum is not good for my MH. I hold deep resentment and a massive grudge toward her. I do not want to hang out with her or his extended family who sat by and let her treat me that way and even stood up for her when I pulled her up in the past.

When I rarely see MIL, I am friendly and polite whereas she is offhand with me. For example, she always comments that she is not invited over anymore, or included in things, and these things are always directed at me, not DH. It's my fault.

My DH is upset as his parents are coming over tomorrow to drop something off. It is my one day off before a stretch of 6 working days and I have plans. Why can't he see his parents on his own? I think this is perfectly normal. I see mine on my own and my brothers visit my parents on their own all the time. Why do I need to be there? DH doesn't want to upset his mum as she is ageing and frail (she's really not) but I have zero empathy or compassion for the woman.

I can see this being an issue in the future as my DH can see that I just don't care whereas he has gone the opposite way, which I understand as it is his family. I don't voice any of this to him, but he knows as I make zero effort with them now, whereas before I treated them the same way I treated my own family.

No law says you have to be home then...

I can understand how you feel and I can understand how he feels. I think it's perfectly reasonable that he sees his parents himself.

Avoid her. Be out, busy, whatever.
His parents, his duty.
Keep doing what you’re doing which is being polite but distant with her and all your in laws.

Absolutely don’t cancel your plans.
It sounds like a very difficult situation but I think your way of dealing with it is healthy.

Does he not really enjoy seeing them and that’s why he wants you to be there too? Either to make it more enjoyable, or to share the suffering!

Either way, they’re his parents and his responsibility. It’s good to set expectations now that you won’t be involved in any kind of care etc as they get older.

Stand your ground. I have a very very similar situation, it’s only recently that I feel strong enough to know what my boundaries are and maintain them.
Stay calm, even breezy, act like it’s no big deal with your dh, it’s all normal and fine, and then just do what you need to do.
Enough is enough, she’s had her pound of flesh and more.
Stand your ground.

His relationship with his parents should be separate from his relationship with you. In my family I see my parents regularly but never take my dh, he only see them if they come to mine, and unless it's Christmas even then its only a quick cup of tea and chat till he is out again. Same with my pil. We all get on very well, but its important that an adult child still has a one to one relationship with their parents without their spouse.
If she is toxic is it that he isn't happy with spending time alone with them and wants you there for back up?

I suspect several reasons your dh wants you involved. 1. When you're there his mum's toxicity focuses on you not him. He probably doesn't even realise this, just thinks Mum is so much nicer when Fruit is around. 2. His mother makes an issue of you not being there and he has to deal with martyrdom/snide commits etc 3. You are better at saying no to her. 4. It's a family dynamic where everyone pretends they are close and loving, and you not buying into that highlights that it's fake.

Stick to your guns. Their fucked up dynamics are not your issue!

Has your DH even acknowledged to himself that his family dynamics, and crucially their effect on him, are messed-up?

Not "oh my mum can be a bit mean" - I mean properly tried to tackle the issues that a messed-up upbringing left him with. How he feels about his own relationship with his mum - because this seems like classic FOG. He's been on the receiving end of her nastiness and but still feels guilty enough that he thinks he can win her over by going all out to help her. (Spoiler alert - he can't.)

You've set up your boundaries around your MIL, which is fantastic - well done. Stick to them. In the short term you don't need to be around for this visit, of course he can see his mum by himself. But you're also asking about the long-term issue and that will only be resolved when your husband acknowledges and faces the fact that his family are a problem for him, not just you.

My DP has the same mentality that I need to be there when he visits his mum or vice versa, whereas I'll see my parents alone. It drives me nuts and I love my MIL! I think it's because he wants a buffer from her relentless mindless chatter – maybe your DH needs a buffer in a different way, because as a PP says, when she's focusing on you she's not bothering him? Which is entirely wrong, of course, and I don't blame you for being annoyed after the way she's treated you. I suggest you talk again to your DH and make it crystal clear you have no interest in helping a woman who has treated you abysmally and if he loved you he wouldn't expect you to.

Let him have some alone time with the toxic woman.
He can hardly complain can he?
Best time for me was disengaging from my ils.
The sense of freedom was magnificent!
Stopped being in when they arrived - usually 8.20friggin AM.. and never visited them.
Joyful - and triumphant!
And it wasn't even December if I recall!!

Just don't be there. You have plans outside of your relationship and that's fine.

Under no circumstances are you to cancel your plans.

Perhaps if your DH has to see his 'frail' mother alone, he won't be able to dismiss her behaviour as he'll be experiencing 100% of it. I'd imagine that in the past he might duck out and chat to his dad in a different room if you were there and leave you to chat to his mother. This time, he'll have to 'entertain' them 100% by himself. He'll see what hard work they are.

You look after you.

You can support him spending time with his family without having to be there yourself.

When your DH complains, you tell him that he’s had multiple opportunities over the years to stick up for you and change the way things are now, but this is the consequence of his inaction. It’s not your job to make his visits nicer with people that have treated you badly and he either needs to understand or accept that, but if he doesn’t, don’t let it change your plans.

Of course he can see his parents on his own; he wants to continue to use you as some sort of buffer between he and they. If you cop their barbs this means he does not. Additionally he is mired in FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) and those are three buttons his parents, particularly his mother, installed in him. He cannot and equally will not be able to face the truth re either parent here.

You stick to your boundaries and not change your plans in any way.

The article below is a good way of explaining the boat rocking behaviour prevalent in such dysfunctional families:

Don't rock the boat.

I've been thinking about this phrase a lot lately, about how unfair it is. Because we aren't the ones rocking the boat. It's the crazy lady jumping up and down and running side to side. Not the one sitting in the corner quietly not giving a fuck.
At some point in her youth, Mum/MIL gave the boat a little nudge. And look how everyone jumped to steady the boat! So she does it again, and again. Soon her family is in the habit of swaying to counteract the crazy. She moves left, they move right, balance is restored (temporarily). Life goes on. People move on to boats of their own.

The boat-rocker can't survive in a boat by herself. She's never had to face the consequences of her rocking. She'll tip over. So she finds an enabler: someone so proud of his boat-steadying skills that he secretly (or not so secretly) lives for the rocking.

The boat-rocker escalates. The boat-steadier can't manage alone, but can't let the boat tip. After all, he's the best boat-steadier ever, and that can't be true if his boat capsizes, so therefore his boat can't capsize. How can they fix the situation?

Ballast!

And the next generation of boat-steadiers is born.

A born boat-steadier doesn't know what solid ground feels like. He's so used to the constant swaying that anything else feels wrong and he'll fall over. There's a good chance the boat-rocker never taught him to swim either. He'll jump at the slightest twitch like his life depends on it, because it did .

When you're in their boat, you're expected to help steady it. When you decline, the other boat-steadiers get resentful. Look at you, just sitting there while they do all the work! They don't see that you aren't the one making the boat rock. They might not even see the life rafts available for them to get out. All they know is that the boat can't be allowed to tip, and you're not helping.

Now you and your partner get a boat of your own. With him not there, the balance of the boat changes. The remaining boat-steadiers have to work even harder.

While a rocking boat is most concerning to those inside, it does cause ripples. The nearby boats start to worry. They're getting splashed! Somebody do something!

So the flying monkeys (in this instance these people are your H's wider family) are dispatched. Can't you and your partner see how much better it is for everyone (else) if you just get back on the boat and keep it steady? It would make their lives so much easier.

You know what would be easier? If they all just chucked the bitch overboard.

And what gannett wrote also.

Why don't you voice any of this to him? Surely he needs to know why you don't want to be in the same room as her?

I don't get on with my SIL. I think she's a lazy entitled brat who has happily screwed my sister over financially in the past and would do it again given the opportunity. She also subscribes to every conspiracy theory going so it's a nightmare trying to have a normal conversation with her

So I don't see her. I'll grin and bear her company over Christmas for a couple of days every other year and when we do cross paths at other times, I'm polite and friendly because that costs me nothing. If she's over our house, I'm generally "working" or "have plans" that will get me out of the house shortly.

My DP understands my position, she agrees with most of my opinion of her, but not everything (massive blindspot about the financial stuff), but she wants to maintain that relationship, so that's fine. I'll happily facilitate that, and the best way I can facilitate it is to not be in the same room as this woman.

Easier for everyone that SIL thinks that I'm a workaholic who doesn't make time for my DP's family than the truth, that I just can't stand her.

Absolutely not.

I am married nearly 30 years and I can't believe that you have been so tolerant.

Stick to your guns and stop protecting your husband from the fact that he is a very disloyal weak man.

You are clearly not his priority here so I would have a hard look at protecting yourself.

You will never want to be involved with this awful woman as she ages, so continue on this path of avoiding her.

You need to spell it out very clearly to him.
I want NOTHING to do with your mother and I will NOT be coerced into contact with her.

If he wants to make it a huge point of conflict in your marriage that is HIS decision, and he can take the consequences of that.

BUT you will NOT be changing your mind.

Someone so disloyal as to see you treated badly and stand by and allow it to occur is not someone to ever depend on.

Glad to see you work.
I hope you have a life with friends and family away from him.

Keep those people close.
You need them.

Be very wary of someone so disloyal as your husband.

You owe him and his family NOTHING after your treatment by them.

It’s absolutely fine for him to see his parents on his own without you there.

Who cares if he is upset?

Has he cared about your treatment at her hands for years?

Nope.

What a selfish, self absorbed man....more like his mother that you realise.

Let him be upset!

Tell him get over himself just like you have had to.

Jesus Christ, that article is spot on. In fact I cannot reply individually to all responses (gratefully received) as they are all right. Every one of them. My DH, my MIL and her flying monkeys are identified in every single post.

They do think I am the boat rocker and the trouble maker. However, I know I am not because in no other area of my life, in 50 years, have I ever been told that I am nothing but kind, generous and a lovely person who goes with the flow, which incidentally my MIL took full advantage of.

My MIL is absolutely the boat rocker, with everyone else steadying it to please her, and they are all pissed off with me for no longer being the cabin boy/ boat bitch.

She sounds like my mother. My DBs are all o she’s old and frail now, she’s lost Dad and all alone, she’s all alone because she’s a fucking nasty narcissistic bitch. She is certainly not old (67) or frail. They never bore the brunt of her like I did and I refuse to have anything to do with her now.

tell your DH you are happy for him to spend more time with her but to keep you out of it, after over 30 years of putting up with her your done, if he dosnt like it tough.

Fruit I wish you well, stick to your boundaries like glue.

But Attila, I am in awe of that Rocking the Boat explanation! It makes it so clear what roles there are in the situation and why someone consciously not assuming the expected role (they’ve been recruited partly as potential ballast?) can cause so much friction in families.

I've recently decided to step back from PIL's too and quickly I realised how I was taking all the brunt of keeping DH and his parents relationship going. I was the in-between person always saying 'you should message your mum/dad' 'should we invite them for dinner' 'should we invite them away with us' ect. Not only that but when we visit I would be responsible for making conversation and keeping it going as neither side bothers. Then a situation happened where I was treated appallingly by them so now I don't make any effort. DH hardly talks to them and we don't see them anywhere near as much because I'm not constantly doing the leg work and making all the effort. It's quite a good feeling having stepped back from that responsibility now!

@FruitLoopDeLoop
Hope you feel better now about maintaining your boundaries, and yes throw the boat bitch off.
That article is very helpful. I simply do not have the energy for nasty games.

Another vote to do your own thing and don’t feed into it all. From another non-boat steadier! Live yours own life and don’t get drawn in