Impossible to split? very long story

[HangerLaneGyratorySystem]

I'm 60, H is 66, married 30+ years. We've always had a rocky relationship, I was completely irresponsible in allowing it to go on and on, but we had big debts (and subsequently pensions aren't too good esp mine) and small kids so I left it and waited. When the DC were younger he was awful, aggressive and lazy. I saw him being described in so many threads on MN which opened my eyes. I never kept a diary or log of his behaviour but it affected the DCs too. I know I was wrong never to tackle it and that's led me to this age, and this dilemma.

Now DC are late teens/early 20s and the youngest has severe MH issues, housebound and under a specialist. can't be left alone. Before this became clear, I had seen a solicitor and planned to leave, I was then 56. But DC was so unwell, all resources, time and emotions were spent supporting just to prevent suicide or self harm etc. Since the extent of the illness became clear H has reigned behaviour in, so now he's just constantly irritable, occasionally blows up at me, and we bicker all the time. I refuse to engage so as to shield DC as far as possible. He still believes he has done nothing wrong in our entire marriage, says he is blameless and I have ruined his life so not the sort to sit down and discuss the problems. He has no family and only a handful of not very close friends. He has a small private pension and is currently working part time to top it up before he claims the state pension. If we split the equity in the house we will end up in small flats or have to move a very long distance from everything we know. The DCs know that I am planning to split and want us both to be happy. Herein lies the impossible situation: Eldest DC is looking to move out anyway, but unwell youngest thinks the split will lead to some sort of idyll where both parents have a nice house and can do things like go on nice holidays and pursue their own interests.

Thats not going to happen. We will both struggle with a share of the equity, we'd need to top up with mortgages and the loans we can afford won't buy us much. We can't travel, even my going out for a few hours is difficult, and we can't leave unwell DC alone. But even if we could travel, neither of us will have any money left to do so. DC said to me I need you to leave and go and have a happy life, in a nice house (with them) and show me its possible. When I said it might not be as simple as all that, she asked "are you telling me that I am struggling to recover from this illness, and you are saying I might have to move into a horrible house and that you STILL won't have any money?! When are you EVER going to be happy mum?" And you know, that's a fair assessment isn't it? Not an attractive prospect.

I can't provide the future for my DC think that we could/should have. The future is uncertain, frighteningly so as I head towards retirement not in 100% good health, retiring on (just over) basic state pension still owing a mortgage and with little or no support. I will never be able to do what DC thinks I should do, what they know I'd like ideally, and provide safe secure housing for us all. if it was just me, I could say yeah you know, sod it, I'll risk it, I'll try to get the peace of mind and freedom I deserve. But it isn't likely to be just me for a long time if ever; prognosis for unwell DC is that they may recover to an extent but will always need extra help, and that the upheaval I am planning will badly affect the chances of recovery in any case. I waited 4 years thinking they'd get better and now I am 60 I am thinking how on earth can I wait any longer? And the longer I wait, the less I can borrow on a new mortgage in any case.

I might have missed stuff, please ask questions. I also expect a lot of people to say you can just leave. A whilst back I posted a bit on here and a poster told me that I was using unwell DC as an excuse not to leave. I've got a friend telling me H and I would simply get two council houses, or I could go to a refuge (and she believes its that easy). Others saying you need to leave so you'll just have to move into a flat (with no room for oldest DC, plus we have a dog). And yet more saying its entirely irresponsible to go ahead with this split at your time of life with no one to look after unwell DC whilst you are at work etc etc, move away from what few friends and family you do have and lose your lovely house and garden.

I read recently that splitting up at this age may simply replaces one unhappiness with another and I seem to be the case in point. I'm scared for us all.

That sounds like a terrible amount of burden on your shoulders, and I'm sorry things are like this for you. I don't have an answer for you, but you are in there amongst all this, and you matter too. It doesn sounds though DD is resentful towards you, and this isn't reasonable, you don't have a magic wand and she's soing to have to accept that at some point. If there is no sure sign of her recovery in the short term you need to either accept this status quo for the rest of your life, or find a way forward for your own peace, whatever the size of the home you end up in. You're going to hear a lot of advice, ie move into a hostel, council house etc, and you know that most of it is just not applicable. There are no right or wrong answers really, just choices that have outcomes. Wishing you all the very best, you sound like a loving and caring mum, and you matter too.

What a terribly difficult situation. You seem to be torn several ways.

If you weren't looking after DC, or weren't able to, what would happen to her? Does she get any kind of benefits (I assume she can't work). Would she split her time between you and XDH so you could work a bit?

It does sound as if she has very little understanding of the realities of your situation or of the part she is playing in preventing your happiness.

You'd be entitled to a share of his pension by the way, in a long marriage pensions are marital assets, and if DD is going to live with you forever you could probably argue for more than 50% of the equity.

You can choose to be happy though. No walking in egg shells, inviting friends over, no longer having to support a lazy husband etc will take huge pressure off your shoulders. You DC will get better and begin to live their lives.

You just have to find the positives and make a plan, with real facts and figures.

Wht not rent for 6 months and see how you feel after? You are worth the investment.

This sounds very hard. Please don't blame yourself - you are coping with so so much and holding a lot together.

It might help to list out

Your ideal life aged 61 onwards, if money was no object
Your worst case scenario of life if you split
Your worst case scenario of life if you stay

I am sure there will be solutions. You have got this, you just need someone to coach you a little and see the wood for the trees.

I think your response to your dd should be that money and a nice house doesn't equal happiness - you have the nice house now. You're not happy. I think you need to frame this differently, for yourself, and for your dd who should learn that happiness is a feeling, not dependent upon income. That makes a much healthier mindset for her to recover from.

You need to split.
I split up with exH a couple of years ago.I have moved from the south east to Somerset and have bought a lovely home with my DS and DiL. I have the downstairs flat and they have the upstairs bigger flat the house has been divided into. Mine is more of a granny annexe.
My half of the equity went into the house and DS and DiL took out a mortgage which they pay.
The area is much much cheaper than the southeast and we are loving our new home.
I would have bought a houseboat if it meant it was the only way I'd stay in that miserable marriage.
A lovely house and garden isn't important, a happy and relaxed life is. Move cross country if you need to just do it. Don't waste any more years.

Can you buy a one bed place outright to rent out and rent a house for yourself and DC? Once your DC are independent, you could then move into your 1 bed place.

That is so much to be on one persons shoulders ((unmumsnetty hugs))

You have one life @HangerLaneGyratorySystem Would you be happier where you are now or in a small place somewhere else? I think the latter would be preferable to what your life currently is. It would be scary but moving somewhere far from where you are now so you can afford a house, and could bring you a whole different life, with new people and places to visit.

It's toxic to remain in your current situation, and it may very well be affecting your DC'S mental health, even if you are somewhat protecting them there is probably a lot of tension in the air. My mum split from my dad later in life, moved into a smaller flat, and she is so, so much happier to be away from him. I would say cut your losses and divorce asap.

Could you buy a part buy OP and use your equity for the 25% bit outright. That way you have stability but without necessarily having to have a crap place or even a mortgage at all?? There is a special scheme for part buys over 60- this doesn't mean an over55 development, as that would be difficult to have your young adult with you.

OP,

I stayed in a bad relationship 'for the sake of the children' and especially a suicidal child, but I realise that the toxic environment was partly to blame for the suicidal feelings.

I should have left long ago and deeply regret it.

But I am going to live in the poor house because of it and am absolutely dreading it. People tell me that it will be worth it and that money cannot buy the peace that we will have, but I have yet to be convinced because it has not happened and I have not seen it with my own eyes. I can only hope.

Does your husband take on any caring responsibilities for your DD?
Would it be possible to split your current house into 2 flats? You and husband separate/divorce , you live in one flat with DD, he in the other and you share caring duties. Not ideal but saves disrupting DD and possibly as cheap as moving.

Thank you everyone; some food for thought here let me see if I can pick up some comments and questions:

@Maytodecember - his caring is limited to going to shops/chemist and being in the house when I'm not, gives lifts to the hospital or station. He helps with the dog and does some DIY, mows the lawn, loads the dishwasher. I say "limited" but if I had to take on all that as well as DD 24/7 it would be hard.

We are already more or less in 2 areas, he has a big studio bedroom, me and DCs have a bedroom each and a small sitting room. But we all share the kitchen and bathroom. I don't think its feasible long term - the trouble is again our ages - if we wait any longer neither of us can get an affordable mortgage. I have actually considered saying lets separate but remain more or less living like this for her sake. But I just think if he can't keep his temper now then how more likely is he to be reasonable when I tell him the marriage has to be dissolved? What you suggest is the easiest way, but it keeps us bound together - would it be the cowards way out for me? Convenient? Comfortable? Imagine in 3 years time if we tried to sell up - he'd be starting again at 68/69; I don't think that's fair and I do want to be fair. None of us want him to have a miserable existence.

But yes I have definitely considered pretty much what you are suggesting and its a way forward.

@ImJustACuriousBird that sounds scary too - can you elaborate?

@Velvian This is news to me, hadn't considered it. Will definitely look into it, its like hedging your bets, getting an investment property whilst maybe trying out other areas to live. Good idea - what made you think of that?

@Crikeyalmighty - shared ownership - means every monthly payment I made would be towards rent and not owning outright? I have looked at these schemes we have some lovely places going up round here, but I thought the pitfall was resale and again, my age. I need to own outright by the time I retire.

@LadyGardenersQuestionTime "she has very little understanding of the realities of your situation or of the part she is playing in preventing your happiness" - I never want her to think she is preventing my happiness, no child should think they are responsible either way. She'd be devastated. Being to blame wouldn't stop her being unwell.

Also pension - I'd need 2/3rds equity to get at least a 2 bed, so I'd accept that in lieu of pension sharing. its a clean break and I'd feel that although he'd end up in a smaller flat, he'd have enough coming in to get a little mortgage himself or do stuff he wanted to do. Its important to both DCs that he is not in a crappy place.

Thank you to everyone else who has commented so far, people have been much kinder than I thought they might. And yes it is a lot, its driving me insane. BTW I saw a book recommended on here called Decision Time - it talks about making life changing decisions where there is no good outcome, just a bad one, or an even worse one. Been a game changer, I've got about 60 pages left. I'd like to make my decision by the end of this month so I've arranged to talk to the psychologist on how unwell DC will handle it.

I suppose I also need to acknowledge our long life together - H and I are the witnesses to each others entire adult lives - and how fucking sad it all is. Some friends think I should celebrate the split - doesn't seem like something to be particularly cheerful about.

@ImJustACuriousBird that sounds scary too - can you elaborate?

What is it you need to know?

You have a lot of mental anguish, you must feel unwell with it all yourself. My thoughts are with you.

Personally, I would have to leave. Your current situation is untenable for me.

I would rent initially. Why not rent a flat like what you could afford to buy and see how you get on? It's a trial for you and your DD. Then you know if it's suitable or not.

If not, rent something more expensive and if/when money runs out you can reassess. Yes you won't own but that's not the end of the world.

Your DD essentially said:

• she wants you to be happy
• she wants you to show her a happy living environment.

Living with your husband must be unbearable for all of you. I would expect not having to live with him will vastly help your DD, even if it won't/can't help everything.

you are saying I might have to move into a horrible house and that you STILL won't have any money?! When are you EVER going to be happy mum?" And you know, that's a fair assessment isn't it? Not an attractive prospect.

@HangerLaneGyratorySystem DC is somehow equating money as the only prospect of happiness. Of course it's not fun being skint, but you'll be happier emotionally if free of your husband. You could explain that to her.

Many of us are relatively poor but happy. The freedom and peace of no longer having an asshole around is wonderful.

I have a severe mental health condition by the way and happily live an independent life, as do many. I turn to services if I need help rather than being reliant on family in that way. I imagine that's perfectly possible for your DC in future, so don't give up hope or assume you'll be her carer for life at all. x

@HangerLaneGyratorySystem , the buying a 1 bed idea occurred to me as you may be able to buy that outright and live in it in your retirement. A 1 bed is no good for you now, but the rental income from it will cover a good part of the rent you would need to pay on a bigger place for yourself and DC in the meantime.

OP don't underestimate the impact that you being in an unhappy relationship will be having on your DC's mental health. I speak from experience here.

I'm so sorry. I can't see how you can leave. Your dd sounds so incredibly entitled. What a horrible way to view it: 'Your'll never be happy mum'. When what you really feel like saying is I'd leave if it wasn't for your MH issues'. What is going to happen to her, job wise or how she is going to live, in the luxury she expects, when you and Dh pass away?

I agree with three tulips that only your attitude can change : the choosing to be happy and having friends over.

What a sad case.

Everyone saying leave hasn't grasped the fact that OP probably can't even afford a 1 bedroom flat in a shit location. Of course for her MH and happiness it's best to leave, but if you can't afford it, the choice of using a ???victim support agency (which she wouldn't get because she's not leaving an abusive Dh is she?) to help you get a flat isn't appealing.

OP not sure if you're still reading.

You've got such a burden on your shoulders and what I'm going to say initially may seem like adding more, but it's nothing compared to the reality.

If you stay in any way connected to "D"H then there's a likelihood that as you age you end up having to care for him too.

Up against that, any option you take in terms of living somewhere else is going to be better than having to deal with that on top.

Money wise is your dc claiming everything they can like ESA & PIP? If you have an illness or disability that is likely to last long term you should claim PIP before you reach retirement age so you have a chance of the mobility element. Otherwise if you claim when you have retired you will only get Attendance Allowance which means no mobility element. If you will only get state pension you may qualify for pension credits, even if you only qualify for a penny it means you will get some council tax relief & other things. You need to explore any way to increase your income, a solicitor may advise you to fight for a bigger chunk of the house split as you have a disabled dc living with you.

If I were in your position I would be steering towards splitting.
In the kindest way it is not your responsibility to ensure that your husband or ex husband is happy - that's down to him.
Your youngest - I'm not sure of their age can begin a new life wherever you move to.
Make sure they are getting the right support financially with benefits and other services.
The situation seems desperate now but things do change.
Encourage her to manage her own expectations and not to somehow transfer what she feels she deserves onto you and make you feel as if it's what you need in life.

Small pleasures can be personal goals and will feel like big achievements.
From experience I can say that it's not easy but also that there is no feeling quite like being in your own space doing what you want when you want.
I've found that what you need is actually very little. A secure place to live, food to eat, pleasurable ways to spend your free time which do not need to be expensive
Be it ever so humble and all that...
Very good luck

Good morning OP

I have had a DS in a similar situation as your DC and I could not imagine coping with that with the backdrop of your DHs behaviour, you must be exhausted and struggling to see the wood for the trees.

I think you have more options than you realise, you just don't have any easy or clear ones, and I think that you need to clearly define what your priorities are. You say that you need to be mortgage free by the time you retire but that the property you will be able to afford will be substandard for your needs. You are currently in a shared home situation with a tedious and difficult housemate. Is house ownership an absolute deal breaker in this? My mother in laws assets, hard won and held onto (buying nothing but stickered food for decades for example) is currently paying for her care home fees and she will retain very little. I can understand the need to own your home though, I feel the same.

Your title suggests that remaining in the status quo is an option, an undesirable one but still an option. But is it really? Your children are getting older and will not live with you forever, do you want the last few years of family life to continue as it is? Can you imagine retiring and spending more time in that environment?

Your options include

Staying with your husband as housemate:-

1. Staying as you are (I don't personally think this IS an option but it is on the list)
2. Moving all of you (including DH) into a more suitable property for all of you in the local area, where you can clearly separate space (i.e. build a second kitchen)
3. Staying in your current property and doing some building work to define space, could you build into the loft space? add an "granny flat" extension?

Separating with your husband:-

1. Moving to the property in the local area you could afford and making do, looking at ways to make space work (I'm a fan of smaller living)
2. Looking into shared ownership (Does your local council offer this? - The rent can be cheaper than you may think?)
3. Getting on the waiting list for council/local association properties and renting (probably)for the rest of your life. It does offer security and you will likely be able to stay in the property for as long as you need to. The negative is that waiting lists are generally long, your current situation should help push you up the list a bit, if you wait a few years it will not.
4. Renting privately - Most expensive option in my opinion and with the least protection
5. Buying with someone else other than your husband? A friend? One of your DC? Sharing the mortgage....
6. Moving to a cheaper area/country and buying outright, or with smaller mortgage. This may not be viable in the shorter term.

If buying you could look at different options to try to save money

1. Buying through auction - comes with significant risks
2. Buying land and building yourself - I know nothing about this
3. Looking at alternative living options - caravan/canal boat etc (not sure you would like this, or would be viable for your DC but could be a cheaper short term option while you decide).

I know a lot of these options are instantly dismissible but think them through maybe they will spark other ideas!

In my life I have lived in council accommodation, bought shared ownership through the local house association and bought a property through auction, as well as buying traditionally. The shared ownership worked well for me, was affordable and rent included factors fees as well as buildings insurance and was reasonable. The council property offered security that I needed at the time and the auction house was ... stressful! I also lived in a caravan for 9 months when I was young and I liked it but couldn't do it long term! I have never rented privately. I am currently looking to remortgage and will be paying my mortgage until I am 70... so I intend to work till then, but i love my job so that is something I am willing to do.

Once you start moving it will get easier. The thing about making decisions is nothing is set in stone, everything can be changed. I fear it is inaction that may do the most damage in your situation.

I hope you have a good day!