Awkward conversation with relative

[GonnaGetGoingReturns]

I've got an aunt in her 80s who is an older sister of my mum but their DM was their only parent. My DM knew her own father and was brought up partly with him but this woman never knew her father and only met him once or twice in her lifetime. My nana (the DM) made some hard choices re the care of her DD (before WW2 broke out) and equally had some hard choices to make re my DM care as a a child - but there's a 10 year age gap between them.

My nana died a long time ago ago, good age etc. My DM was close to my nana but the aunt wasn't as close, though they did see each other fairly regularly. My nana always treated them fairly re attention and financially.

My main issue is the last time I saw my aunt (went to stay with her) about 2-3 years ago we were in my car and on a bus and she talked at me the whole time about her childhood experiences, blaming my nana which I felt was a bit unfair as when I knew her, she was lovely to me. When my parents visited her recently and they went out for the day, again, she talked a lot about her childhood, lack of father etc and monopolised the conversation.

I'm going to see this aunt soon because I'd like to and she has also said she'd like to see me too, but also she's older and I feel I need to see her a bit more as she gets older. I have some friends who live near her too.

My main question is, how/what/why do I deal with her talking a lot about things which make me uncomfortable and which I didn't have any involvement in. I am almost certain that she'll bring up what she brought up before, again. My DM also feels a bit awkward too, if she sees her again.

Probably not what you want to hear but you s**k it up, you listen to your very elderly aunt talk about her experiences, you nod your head and just say ok. You let her talk it out and then you move on to another subject. You have absolutely no idea what this woman went through growing up in the war, having no father around, the hard life she ensured and what she went through and felt. Please show some kindness, compassion and empathy here.

Also the fact that it's been 3 years since you last saw her, says a lot and now all you are talking about is having to listen to her talking about experiences she went through, which are probably still painful if she is still talking about them.

Finally, she's in her 80's think about if you were this age - how you would like to be treated by your niece and wider family. I hope you can manage to rise above this and ensure this visit is about your aunt, who may be lonely, feeling alone and is very advanced in age. Show some interest in her, bring her flowers, a gift, let her chat and talk, show kindness and love, enjoy your visit.

It doesn’t make the slightest difference to your aunt whether or not your grandmother was ‘lovely’ to you — she had a very different relationship with her. She had what sounds like a very difficult childhood. Surely it’s not that hard for you to listen to her talk about it without trying to tidy it up and tell her it wasn’t that bad, really?

@PintofPlain @Ohnolookwhatthecatsdraggedin - thanks for your replies. Both appreciated.

I get what both of you are saying. But why is she bringing this up after all this time? It didn't happen after my nana died (many years ago).

I don't mean to sound heartless but it's a bit hard to see someone when all they go on about is this. My aunt also hasn't been the nicest of women over the years, very critical about my DB and once at a family funeral when I was in my early 20's asking me in the funeral car why I wasn't married yet and making a big thing out of that too. Her husband (my uncle) had to have a word with her re that because she upset me.

I was going to meet a friend for lunch and bring my aunt but after her outburst I felt a bit awkward and didn't want my friend to hear my aunt possibly saying what she said, so I made an excuse to my aunt and didn't go with her.

Just change the subject every time she brings it up and say you'd rather talk about something else.

She is bringing it up because it still hurts.

Honestly my aunt is not alone. She has a son who sees her regularly, she works for someone who treats her like a relative and has grandchildren and great grandchildren who she sees regularly, so she isn't lonely really either.

She's a very active mid 80s woman who is going to Australia later this year to see relatives.

Funnily enough, when I speak to her about her health issues (mostly eye but has had minor surgery and heart but treated) both my DM and I are really caring and concerned. She's one of my DM's sisters so there is closeness/fondness and she is a relative.

2-3 years has been because of Covid and also the fact that my uncle was very ill and he didn't want to see visitors (because he was ill) which we respected. I was very fond of my uncle too.

@rookiemere - we sort of let her talk but do try to change the subject too.

@Ilikecheesycrackers - we know that this hurts. She just never let on to us until recently. It was all very stiff upper lip and don't mention it from her, even after my nana died. I mean in the kindest possible way, what can we do? It's almost like she expects us to do something, but we can't do anything apart from listen.

You had a different relationship. Her experience was very different to yours. Do not belittle her feelings they are hers.

Just change the subject and end sentences with phrases like " well our struggles make us who we are " do you fancy a cup of tea?

"Must have been tough in those days ". Have you been watching xxx?

Etc

My policy is that the oldest woman in the room is the boss. Let her ramble and moan, you don't see her often and she's extremely unlikely to cheer up or change her ways if challenged.

My mum chats shit all the time, she won't change so I just smile and nod.

I don't know what she wants here - maybe just that you listen with empathy. Not getting into a discussion about it but acknowledging - " that sounds really painful"; "that must have been so hard for you" etc.

She will know that your DM had a different childhood experience to her. Maybe she just wants someone to acknowledge that her experience is also valid.

You had different relationships. My maternal grandmother was so fond of me and so loving. I had such a good relationship with her and so many really lovely memories. However, she was cold, harsh and not nurturing to my mother. We have to sit with the awkward truth, we're both right. It hurts both of us to know what it was like for the other one.

My paternal grandmother was actively abusive and her children hated her. Growing up she was always nice to me, though she could get a look in her eye that unsettled me and we didn't have the closeness that I had with "my nan". Again, I know that both experiences are true, but they are very different. You just have to accomodate this.

As you say. you had no involvement in it; or her childhood. Nana was lovely to YOU, but that was much later in Nan's life. Compared to FT 24/7/365 motherhood it's easier to be a lovely Gran ; a part time volunteer job with back up staff ( the GC's parents) and an escape hatch (her own home).

You didn't know Nan back when she was a young mum. She's dead. Nan doesn't need you to re-write her life history or defend her mistakes.

Aunt is an old lady. If she's going senile, you can't change that. If you love her, just let her talk and say what she needs to. It's important to her; it needn't be important to you.

I suspect she is still bringing it up as there is still trauma there, I'm a holistic/trauma therapist and childhood trauma is imbedded deep within us at an emotional, physical and mental level. It never really goes unless you let it come up and deal with it, get therapy, seek help etc. From the sounds of it, it's still there.

Trauma can also make you a bit insensitive as well, I'm not discounting what she has said but in her day and age they got married in their teens, hence why she asked that question, maybe you were feeling quite fragile anyway on the day and that comment went a bit deeper than normal but only you can answer that.

It's good that she is very active and has other's interest's/people esp. her son but sometimes it's easy to judge others for how they act and are, when we haven't walked in their shoes.

You can't do anything so let that expectation drop but you can show empathy and maybe she talks about it as she doesn't discuss it with anyone else so when she see's you or your mother it's a form of release. I think the more you focus on it and make it an issue, it will be. Go visit with an open mind and a loving heart and as others have suggested change the subject. Also has she recently lost her husband?

It sounds like she needs some validation that she went through some hard things that weren't fair or right for a child to go through. She's seeking it from the wrong person though so I don't blame you for feeling awkward. I think I'd maybe let her talk about it for a bit and have some vague but sympathetic phrases ready: "ah, that must have been tough... it sounds like you went through a lot... etc etc". See if listening and acknowledging for a period of time helps and if, after say an hour, she's still going on then start changing the subject. Also, if at all possible, start doing shorter more regular visits as it might help to get it out of her system and start chatting about more normal things?

My mother's cousin only recently started talking to her about his terrible childhood (they are both in their 70s). She was devastated to hear that relatives she had adored had treated him harshly and caused him much misery. From relatively recently uncovered family papers we know that he is not misremembering things. For a long while he only mentioned it to his wife, and then a few years back he and mother started to talk and every conversation came back to it. He was trying to make sense of it all, and by listening to him it helped. It also validated his pain, still very present 70 years on. It was exhausting, and it still is very hard for my mother to accept that relatives who she had been very close to were not always nice.

It isn't easy, but I can understand why she is doing this.

I'd interrupt her and say, 'yes, yes, you've told me this many times, it's sounds like you had a really hard time.' If she carries on I'd tell her there's nothing that can be done now and you'd like it if she could talk about something else, or possibly let someone else talk for a change.

Trauma never really goes unless you let it come up and deal with it, get therapy, seek help etc. From the sounds of it, it's still there.
True, but
She's seeking it from the wrong person though so I don't blame you for feeling awkward.

My DM tends to start going along these lines. I smile and nod then change the subject.

She obviously needs to talk about her experiences. They may be different from yours but perhaps she has been bottling this up for years and she just needs to talk about it. Can't you just listen to her. Tell her you are sorry she had a difficult time growing up and perhaps try and get her to also talk about happier times.

That's the thing! I'm not belittling her feelings (I knew a lot of this from the past) in any way.

@Ohnolookwhatthecatsdraggedin - I wasn't feeling fragile on the day my aunt brought this up but it was suddenly in my car and then on the bus just a tirade of criticism and hate towards my nana which I hadn't heard before. My nana wasn't an angel, but life was very different back then, and also she's dead a few years now, so what can be changed now? Nothing.

Also, my aunt is in no way senile, quite the opposite!

It's a pity because when DB and I were kids she and my uncle were very generous to us both with gifts (that doesn't matter!) but also when we saw them, which was as often as we could do, they were lovely. This just seems to taint things a bit now.

For info (don't want to go into it here as could be outing). Yes, my DM had a different childhood experience to my aunt but as my DM went to live with her mum when she was 11/13 (forget age) after trauma at her own home with her father, there certainly wasn't a loving family atmosphere all the time for my DM either!

@Ohnolookwhatthecatsdraggedin - yes she lost her DH about 2 years ago now but my aunt was bringing this up before he died.

@Suedomin - I will listen to her - in fact me and DM both do, when we see her. We don't ignore her, never would do that and I certainly wouldn't minimise this. My nana had a difficult adulthood (married and divorced 3 times) and only really mellowed at age 70.

My DB is also supposed to be visiting her soon, with us, with his DW and 4 year old son. He has a childhood friend who lives in the same road as my aunt. But my aunt had issues (sorted out now) with DB when he was younger. I'd hope that she doesn't start bringing this up now with him and when his son is there.

My mum and aunt had difficult childhoods- both of them are really introspective now ( I’m their 80’s).
They were both abused by my grandmother ( their step parent), the same woman who was quite nice to me, and was a great mum to her own children.
Their experience is not your experience, and is also not the same as each other’s experience.

Perhaps she didn’t mention it because she had pushed it down, or thought it was ‘proper’ to not discuss feelings. This repression sometimes does make people a bit prickly to deal with.

Perhaps she is just processing it all, and feels a sense of urgency to do so, and her outlet is talking about it to you.

What would happen if you approached the conversations with curiosity and empathy, rather than feeling defensive because she is attacking your nan?

Also, this may be your chance to find out more about your family history. With 10 years between her and your mum, they may have very different viewpoints.

Well that must be hard to lose your husband after such a long marriage. She is probably still grieving, grief is yet another trauma as people we have to endure.

So the person who caused the trauma might be dead as in your Nana but that doesn't negate the fact that the trauma for the person who was on the receiving end is still there and has not been dealt with, released, resolved etc. They still carry that trauma.

Your aunt probably does not know or how to deal with this, remember she grew up in that era where it was all put up and shut up and yes your DM also has her own experiences but it's like you are playing one experience off the other - you feel what you feel, they are valid feeling to you and as a result should be valid to the people that love and care about you. Each and every person should be able and feel safe enough to have those feelings and experience's listened to and recognised.

Anyway, this is my last comment on this thread but I wish you luck with your visit and your Aunt, take care.

@Dotcheck - we've learned a couple of things (not entirely unexpected) from my aunt about her childhood, but not that shocking really. We know the main family history. One of the main things which stood out is her father (who'd been to prison) wanted to bring her up but he couldn't and wasn't allowed access. He was also from another country. My aunt is now saying she feels sad when she sees children with their fathers - understandable. She was also close to both stepfathers when she was younger/older.

I think processing it all is great and to be honest I'm not surprised that she wants to do this now, but, because we're family, it all feels very close to home and I feel (she probably wouldn't do this) maybe a therapist would be more suitable. It just seems a bit late in the day to suddenly drop this on my DM and I - but more so, it seems to be in public, rather than at her home (or our houses). Why would she bring this up in public and not at a place which is more easy to discuss this?

@Ohnolookwhatthecatsdraggedin - I totally get what you say, and each viewpoint should be validated. I don't really need to 'take care' re this - it's just strange and yes, slightly upsetting for me. You're coming to this from a therapist's point of view.