Awkward conversation with relative

[GonnaGetGoingReturns]

I've got an aunt in her 80s who is an older sister of my mum but their DM was their only parent. My DM knew her own father and was brought up partly with him but this woman never knew her father and only met him once or twice in her lifetime. My nana (the DM) made some hard choices re the care of her DD (before WW2 broke out) and equally had some hard choices to make re my DM care as a a child - but there's a 10 year age gap between them.

My nana died a long time ago ago, good age etc. My DM was close to my nana but the aunt wasn't as close, though they did see each other fairly regularly. My nana always treated them fairly re attention and financially.

My main issue is the last time I saw my aunt (went to stay with her) about 2-3 years ago we were in my car and on a bus and she talked at me the whole time about her childhood experiences, blaming my nana which I felt was a bit unfair as when I knew her, she was lovely to me. When my parents visited her recently and they went out for the day, again, she talked a lot about her childhood, lack of father etc and monopolised the conversation.

I'm going to see this aunt soon because I'd like to and she has also said she'd like to see me too, but also she's older and I feel I need to see her a bit more as she gets older. I have some friends who live near her too.

My main question is, how/what/why do I deal with her talking a lot about things which make me uncomfortable and which I didn't have any involvement in. I am almost certain that she'll bring up what she brought up before, again. My DM also feels a bit awkward too, if she sees her again.

I am sorry this is all coming out now but she has a chance before she dies to get all of those supressed emotions off her chest. Maybe ask her if she has ever thought about writing it all down, you could even offer to scribe for her.. thus creating a space where her thoughts and feelings are heard and acknowledged and kept.. and this would also be in a space where it might be more appropriate. You could gently suggest counselling or getting her to write letters to her mother and her father even though they are dead. She may never be able to come to terms with missing out on a happy life with bith parents.. talking about it might help her in some way. Can you reframe the 'what's the point of bringing it up now?' Feelings you have into 'get it all out while you can auntie.. it is better all round'. If it becomes awkward in public... think of a few answers.. This is obviously important auntie, can we talk about when we get home? Would you like to come and see me sometime and talk about this some more? I can see this is painful for you.. but I also want to enjoy this outing, this time together.. lets set some time to talk about this tomorrow.. and if she brings up whatever it was with your brother.. stop that dead.. 'auntie, this is not appropriate right now, can we talk about this another time'.

I wasn't saying take care as in you need to take care of this but as a sign off. I'm Irish it's how we say as in look after yourself!😃

"Auntie, i do want to listen and understand what it was like, but, could we have these discussions in private, and could we also talk about other things as well, because I want us to also have nice memories of good times we had together."

And yet you’re still upset about something she said to you at a family funeral years ago. Isn’t it possible to understand that her childhood experiences are still upsetting her, and she wants to talk about them? And surely you understand that family is all about competing narratives, because no two people ever have quite the same experiences and relationships? I have three younger siblings, one of whom agrees with me that our upbringing was pretty damaging (poverty, overcrowding, no parental idea that we might have needs other than food and shelter, while the next sibling fiercely disputes this, and the youngest doesn’t really get what we’re on about because a big age gap meant that times were easier when he was born.

Your aunt doesn’t expect you to do anything. She simply wants to choose to speak about her early life to family members and at a place of her choosing. I’d have said that doing so in public is probably a deliberate choice.

In your shoes, I’d be asking myself why I found the narrative that a relative you loved has also caused irreparable harm to her own child, and why you seem so set in minimising that harm eg. having decent stepfathers doesn’t mitigate the loss of relationship with her own father.

@ChateauMargaux and @PintofPlain - I agree with both of what you've said - she's probably wanting to get this off her chest before she dies. I think she's also probably told her son, DIL and grandchildren about this too.

It's a good idea @ChateauMargaux to mention to her about writing it down, maybe I'll give her a nice notebook with something else nice for that.

I don't mind that much about her saying it in public, but my SIL isn't very good with outward shows of emotion (that's her issue) and I really don't want to subject my friends (the one I was seeing last time had an ill father to care for) to conversations about this - which is personal to our family! I could be totally wrong and my aunt wouldn't mention this with other non family members.

I'm actually appalled at some of the things my nana did (don't want to go into them here and some more detail re this has come out recently from my aunt) and I'm not sure how much her own widowed (but remarried) father (great grandfather) helped re emotional support - he helped finance and get a divorce sorted out in 1930s for my nana from her first husband when it was very hard to get one.

For me as well, my aunt lives on the South Coast and we all live in London suburbs - easy enough but long to drive to, and a train journey usually requires an overnight stay or you don't have much time to see people, which is why I'd like to enjoy seeing her.

I will say she can bring this up (and mention the same to my mum to say to her) but maybe also try to encourage writing of this down and maybe be careful of when she says it (not in front of 4 year old).

To anyone who thinks as if it comes across as though I'm minimising, trying to silence my aunt or not validate her feelings or anything else - I'm not at all and neither is my DM. It's just that all this came completely out of the blue. In fact, my times when she mentioned this to me, I forgot about, until my mum saw her recently and said what my aunt/her sister had said to her. I think if she mentioned to us, I'd like to talk about this and then did that, we'd both be far more amenable to listening and empathising. I love and care and am very fond of my aunt - and the funeral incident is long forgotten about, I just mentioned that, as it happened and upset me at the time.

I think it is difficult to have these conversations - I have a relative (my mother), who had a lot of trauma and suppressed emotions - she can go off on a rant at inopportune moments and it can be really difficult to deal with. I try to listen and nod and hear and to see if there is anything that she would like to do or say or have done on her behalf - but it is not easy - so I really do understand!! This is probably decades of having these conversations in her head and no one seeing how difficult it was for her - imagining what her mother / father others in her life might have said in return both positive and negative and the placating phrases of 'times were different then', 'it was hard for your mother', 'she did her best', 'she loved you'.. all of which minimise the impact on your aunt. You cannot heal all of those hurts, but you can be the one person who listens. You won't get it right 100% and she might even direct some of her anger towards you. Try to protect yourself from that if you can.

In the Irish meaning of the phrase - take care!! Meaning hugs and love.

I find this a bit odd that it makes you so uncomfortable. My DM was awful to me, but is an excellent grandmother now that she has aged and mellowed. I give you that example to point out that different people in a family can have different experiences with the same person.

It doesn't matter that your nana is dead and 'nothing can be changed' as actually your aunt can maybe achieve some peace through validation. Your posts make me think that you don't want to know so you can keep your rosy view of your nana and not face the reality.

Would she consider therapy? Her upbringing sounds different to your mums. Different personalities deal with experiences differently too. It sounds like she needs to talk about it.

Family is difficult and I think for you to accept that you, your mum and your aunt all had very different relationships with your gran, and that’s okay may help you feel less upset. My gran was lovely to me, and lovely to my uncle but an absolute bitch towards my mum. It’s confusing, remembering this woman that I loved spending time with but am absolutely disgusted by in relation to her behaviour towards my mum. I don’t think there’s anything you can do about it, just accept the situation.

Old age does things to people. And as PP says, your relationship with your nan doesn't mean that her relationship with her mum was the same.

My DSis and I had very different upbringings.

I would just let her chat. Make subtle lighthearted changes to the conversation where you can but mostly, be good company. She will appreciate it.

What she needs, is for someone to tell her 'I hear your experience' and acknowledge she had a hard time. Then she'll find it easier to move on.

Old age and loneliness can make people go over their past experiences and dwell on them. You could try sympathising “I am sorry you feel like that.” “ That must have been had for you” etc. Sometimes we have to think about what other people want to hear. Maybe she was never allowed to express herself earlier and just wants to be heard.

The main reason why it makes me so uncomfortable is, yes, I'm sure my nana wasn't nice or didn't think about what she was doing at the time, but as far as I recall, she tried her best, during a time when there was no social security etc - people could and did, die and starve.

The other reason why it makes me uncomfortable is because they were literally rants at me about my nana and in places where I couldn't escape! The subject matter didn't make me uncomfortable, it's just I literally felt penned in and talked/ranted at.

I don't want to not know at all and I don't have a rosy view of my nana at all - yes, she was lovely to me, but I know from what my DM told me that she could be quite unpleasant to her when she was younger. I am facing the reality and I have done! I'm the sort of person who prefers to do something about things though, not just have talk about it. I admit that's probably a fault of mine though and I should just listen.

I don't think she would be I could see if my DM (I don't want to bring this up!) would suggest this to her.

Funnily enough she worked in a capacity where she helped (in an authority position) people worse off than herself when she was younger and sort of in other positions too.

To anyone else who's answered - thank you for your replies! I will encourage my aunt to speak about it (preferably in her home) and won't shy away from it. I do think, from what some of you said, it was mostly a case of 'this wasn't talked about in the past but is now' which is why she's bringing this up now.

(In fact, based on the latter sentence, I actually discovered some sad facts about my grandad's upbringing (the stepfather of my aunt), more as a refugee, which he didn't tell anyone about at all (he talked a lot about other things, his childhood) and we only found out from his typed memoirs!).

Honestly it has probably been on her mind all her life, but she is now losing her inhibitions and talking about it. The fact that she will be feeling sadness and anxiety about ageing and losing her husband will also trigger old memories associated with the same feelings of being unhappy and powerless to change the situation.

All you have to do is visit her occasionally (very occasionally as it turns out), let her talk, don't react much to the bits that make you uncomfortable, then leave.

Agreed.

See the thing now too (don't know whether she looked into it), he was American - obviously he's long dead but there must be relatives, I have no idea whether she's interested or not in contacting them, as he was married to her mother.

I totally get that she has feelings of sadness, anxiety, ageing and her DH did really help her - he was her saviour if you like. Anyway, a visit has been arranged.

It’s tgat old thing Grandparents generation glad they werent dead
Parents generation saw nothing wrong with smacking benign neglect and hebephilia judging by rock stars of the time
this generation of parents don’t smack or neglect

Nobody is saying these were deliberately bad parents but if the kids suffered sometimes they need to say so regardless of whether they love those relatives or understand they did their best. You

Exactly this

Her truth doesn’t mirror the narrative you like but it’s hers, it’s her hurt and she has had a lifetime of mostly stifling it. She needs to let it out.

Do you listen to friends when they talk about their past and their traumas? I hope so. Pay her the respect of acknowledging her experience.

Being annoying about your relationship status at a funeral decades ago is totally irrelevant.

Wow!

Empathy of the year award right here!

To put it bluntly, you have two ears and one mouth.

Use your ears, there was a time I would have posted my experiences here, but I am wary of the Daily Mail.

My younger sister was the golden child, when I figured it out at the ripe old age of 48 my sister listened and listened and listened and I felt validated.

When she was a child, there was a real stigma attached to being a child born out of wedlock. She probably suffered considerably from that, along with everything else she is now coming out with.

Might I suggest that when you see her you give her a present of a nice notebook and pen. Suggest that you would really like her to write down all her memories in the book, because you don't want to forget what she has told you. Hopefully that will kill two birds with one stone. She can get it all off her chest, and she might not feel that she has to burden you with it all when you visit.

I think she is a very unhappy woman who has reached an age in life where she needs to get all this out.